Have The Means To Make A Doco On Puppy Farms

[lanabanana]

No, I definitely agree with you , which is why I will be focusing mostly on ETHICAL breeders over what kind of dogs they breed.

I will definitely be showing pedigree breeders as lets be honest, they are the ones who are usually doing the right thing, but the point will be made of WHAT to look for in a breeder re health testing and everything else that pedigree breeders do. If there's a backyarder out there who is doing everything that a pedigree breeder does then in my opinion they are an ethical breeder. I don't have anything against crosses in themselves, in fact I love 'em- but what I dont like is the WAY most of them are bred.

I think if I show pedigree breeders ONLY and am too heavy handed with that point it runs the risk of what you said- feeling like a pro pedigree doco as opposed to an anti puppy farm, and that isn't what I want. I do want to show them in a positive light though to hopefully sway the idea a lot of people have that pedigree dogs are only for people that show.

Fantastic post.

I was also going to ask what the above person (dori?? - bad memory) asked in regards to it being an "anti non purebred breeder" documentary.

I thin it would be fantastic to see all the ways you can purchase an ethically bred puppy regardless of breeding. And vice versa too maybe, that sometimes breeders of purebreds are also puppy farmers and not ethical.

I think anything that explains health checks and what to look for, and maybe even some tips on finding the right pup/dog for oyur family (this will help with less rehoming when people are advised about what type/s of dogs will fi tin with them) will be a good film and I will most definately watch it.

[melzawelza]

You're right - there are pedigree breeders that are essentially puppy farmers too, so I want to focus on what needs to be looked for in a breeder if you want a sound, healthy, happy puppy.

I meant to mention earlier too - I want to focus on RESCUE as opposed to adopting straight from the pound/rspca. Most people I come across understand they can get a dog straight from the pound but have no idea what rescue or foster carers are. Most of these people don't want a rescue because they understandably worry about the temperament of the dog , and adopting straight from the pound this is a legitimate concern.

I want to show what rescue is, show the foster carers that have the dogs in their homes for a few months plus in order to determine the dogs good points and points that need work on - and match someone up suitably. I think if more people knew they could get a rescue dog from a home environment with a good idea of the dogs temperament they would be much more inclined to go down that route. It's also of course a way to highlight the hard work these wonderful people put in to 'picking up the pieces' that are a result of puppy farms, pet shops and indiscriminate breeding.

[Souff]

Another idea is to interview dog trainers and behaviourists. I am sure they have seen plenty of unstable dogs produced by puppy farms or dogs who are too much/totally unsuitable for their owners. Could talk about how puppy farmers are just breeding on mass for money so there is no regard for temperament and then the results of that.

\\

ETA just read some other posts. Instead of interviewing people giving up pets, as I do not think you would find many willing participants, you could just follow a few pound dogs and get their story. Eg. "Fido was surrendered to the pound because he isn't cute anymore", you could get the reason of surrender from the paperwork (I think?) and that would replace the interview where previous owners say the same thing. I think following the journeys of a few dogs would be great and another way to really get the viewers to respond as they will sympathize with the dog.

Good ideas, but you will probably only get half the story because many people don't tell the whole truth, and others don't like to admit failure with a dog they thought they could "fix".

If the DUMPERS were interviewed by a skilled interviewer you would have a better chance of getting close to the truth.

"Fido is not cute any more" wont be the reason for surrender. It will be because he is supposed to be vicious, a biter, or continually breaks down fences - all very compelling reasons on paper. In reality the truth is more likely to be because the neighbours are sick to death of putting notes in the letterbox because they are sick to death of hearing a young juvenile dog barking and whining when he is alone in the backyard hour after hour, day after day, because the kids are at school and the adults are at work. He is a pack animal and doesnt understand that it is not alright to do this when the rest of the pack are no longer around. He probably pulled the washing off the line and bailed up the neighbour's cat and dug up the flower bed - any of these things can start his trip to the pound and probably the staff there could be told that he is an escape artist, or that they are moving into a unit. Staff are unlikely to be told that he is just bored and lonely. Occasionally people are truthful and that is refreshing. But admitting that buying a dog was not a good idea for them at that time of their lives seems to be a hard thing for many people to confess to.

It is the story of lack of responsibility on the part of owners that needs to be drawn out.

More often than not, this is the real reason that dogs end up in pounds.

There is far less impulse buying now than what there was say 10 years ago (yes, you are talking to an old hand) yet there is still a high rate of dumpage.

So perhaps it is time to shine the light on other areas.

Looking at that part BETWEEN PURCHASE AND EARLY DEATH will give you a much more realistic take on the problem.

As the previous poster said, talk to animal trainers and animal behaviourists.

They get to see some of the dogs that are on Pound Road and with good owners these dogs can be taken off that road.

But if the owners dont seek help for the problems, and many don't, then the dog is on the fast track to Pound Road.

We have heard all about the puppy mill sagas .... and some people tend to cry "puppy farm" when it is not so the more realistic amongst us are no longer responding. Many others are feeling that way too so make sure you do your market research before marketing. Many members of the public will see nothing wrong with kennels where there are lots of dogs, particularly if the dogs are healthy and clean and bouncing around or looking cute. Vets can own puppy farms so the idea that all puppy farms are full of unhealthy dogs in squalid conditions could be a long way from the truth.

How many million dog owners do we have in Australia?

And there are an awful lot of REPEAT DUMPERS amongst them.

And where do they bring their unwanted dog to? The vet or the pound. Think about it.

Souff

edited cos some things were repeated ... grrrr

Edited July 31, 2010 by Souff

[dunnwarren]

Just a suggestion, why not start with that cute fluffy little bundle you see at the pet shop and work backwards to where it was conceived and the conditions etc it grew up in. There would be plenty of opportunities to talk about ethical breeders, rescue and the pitfalls of buying from a puppy farm.

[rubiton]

Just one thing - make sure the footage if any is obtained of puppy farms is actually taken while production is done and from Australia. Don't just go to the Animal liberation and get stock footage. The second stuff about Australia is stock footage from unnamed US places credibility is out the door for me and regardless I have no interest in whatever the point is.

The Animal Cops show from last Friday night was exactly the right angle to expose puppy farms - it showed how the animal cop people investigated with help of former workers and removed animals. It then went to the bloke who did the full investigation for news reports (he did indeed trace from pet shop back through brokers to puppy farms) and finally they showed what became of a number of the dogs and the issued they had. Not overly emotive to the point of OMG look at these awful images and be shocked - it showed footage but didn't overdo it and did the education view not the 'we must protest etc' view. Though they did show people protesting at the start of the pet shop section and then went into where they come from (no outraged protestors were interviewed but their point was made in the few shots of the placads).

[Shmurps]

Been thinking and maybe a 3 part doco.

Responsible pet ownership, How to source a pup- Inc puppy farms,pet shops and ethical breeders, Pound, shelter, rescue.

[Shmurps]

The 19th Sept is Puppy Farm Awareness day .For Victorians, the ALV is holding one at: The Steps of Parliament. 12pm-2pm

[cowanbree]

We had one screen in NZ recently and I discussed it at the tea table the next day with the normal pet owner who has one dog type. They all expressed horror at the way the dogs were kept but when I said to one of them who had recently brought a cute fluffy puppy from the pet shop, how do you feel about buying from pet shops now, she had no idea what I was talking about. Her puppy had been sourced from a “lovely” breeder. The doco failed to make the connection clear to Joe Average Public between buying that cute puppy and the fact that they are putting money in puppy mills pockets and condemning a dog to a life of hell.

Personally I would love to start with pictures of a cute puppy in a loving home and track it back to show how the parents are living

[BJean]

No, I definitely agree with you ;) , which is why I will be focusing mostly on ETHICAL breeders over what kind of dogs they breed.

I will definitely be showing pedigree breeders as lets be honest, they are the ones who are usually doing the right thing, but the point will be made of WHAT to look for in a breeder re health testing and everything else that pedigree breeders do. If there's a backyarder out there who is doing everything that a pedigree breeder does then in my opinion they are an ethical breeder. I don't have anything against crosses in themselves, in fact I love 'em- but what I dont like is the WAY most of them are bred.

I think if I show pedigree breeders ONLY and am too heavy handed with that point it runs the risk of what you said- feeling like a pro pedigree doco as opposed to an anti puppy farm, and that isn't what I want. I do want to show them in a positive light though to hopefully sway the idea a lot of people have that pedigree dogs are only for people that show. I will however be showing rescue as a big alternative for people who want a heinz (althought not all people want a rescue either)

Thanks for this great post. I see first hand just working as a basic obedience trainer the issues puppy farmed dogs can had (Had a little oodle girl last week that would toilet in her bed and sleep in it, and completely freak out if put into a small space or a crate, poor little mite). Inteviewing some trainers and behaviourists would be great.

And yes, it's true how most people are saying it would be hard to get willing participants to interview that were surrendering their dogs. I like your idea of following a few that have information from their surrender sheets.

We could possibly also use the visuals of allll the rehoming ads on gumtree. Cut a bunch of shots of them together, focusing on the most common reasons ("we're moving", "we want someone who can take him for walks", "we have kids now so don't have time for him anymore"). There are SO MANY dogs listed on there every day - we could go through the listing and count how many rehomings on one website in one day, and list that number.

The new whip horse for dog pts in pounds is puppy farms.

You have to decide whether you want to jump on the bandwagon and join the ALV and RSPCA touting puppy farms as the reason why so many dogs end up at the pounds

or

whether you want to determine your own information and opinion on the matter.

Everyone wants a documentary to push their interest barrow -

what question is your 'documentary' trying to answer?

Is it at investigative doco or an infomercial?

The moment you start considering what groups you want to promote and what groups you dont, you're already tainting the results for your own bias.

Who knows, maybe the people you appraoch for input into why they gave up their dog, will tell you that they got their dog from a rescue or breeder.

Not going to fit in with your puppy farm/ byb 'expose' (assumption) is it?

But if you want to do an informercial on puppy farms, rescue and the PC line, then carry on - as to me this is what the doco sounds like it will be.

Nothing wrong with that of course, but lets be clear about the impacts of how we select and choose information and its effects.

Edited August 1, 2010 by lilli

[BJean]

You're right - there are pedigree breeders that are essentially puppy farmers too, so I want to focus on what needs to be looked for in a breeder if you want a sound, healthy, happy puppy.

I meant to mention earlier too - I want to focus on RESCUE as opposed to adopting straight from the pound/rspca. Most people I come across understand they can get a dog straight from the pound but have no idea what rescue or foster carers are. Most of these people don't want a rescue because they understandably worry about the temperament of the dog , and adopting straight from the pound this is a legitimate concern.

I want to show what rescue is, show the foster carers that have the dogs in their homes for a few months plus in order to determine the dogs good points and points that need work on - and match someone up suitably. I think if more people knew they could get a rescue dog from a home environment with a good idea of the dogs temperament they would be much more inclined to go down that route. It's also of course a way to highlight the hard work these wonderful people put in to 'picking up the pieces' that are a result of puppy farms, pet shops and indiscriminate breeding.

Great, looks like you have your storyline all set, now you just need to conjure the screenplay.

[Souff]

Been thinking and maybe a 3 part doco.

Responsible pet ownership, How to source a pup- Inc puppy farms,pet shops and ethical breeders, Pound, shelter, rescue.

Why not add Part 4? How NOT to DUMP a dog at the pound when you are sick of it? That it is a DOG for LIFE.

[Souff]

You have to decide whether you want to jump on the bandwagon and join the ALV and RSPCA touting puppy farms as the reason why so many dogs end up at the pounds

or

whether you want to determine your own information and opinion on the matter.

Everyone wants a documentary to push their interest barrow -

what question is your 'documentary' trying to answer?

Is it at investigative doco or an infomercial?

The moment you start considering what groups you want to promote and what groups you dont, you're already tainting the results for your own bias.

Some of them giving the advice here are from the groups you mention Lilli so the bias and the tainting is already in place.

Souff

[pixie_meg]

haven't had a chance to read through the posts so apologies if this has already been said.

I think a comparison should be made between a puppy farm and a registered breeders. even with dot points on the screen for each.

eg. puppy farm

- no health testing or behavioural testing

- poor living conditions - cages etc

- undersocialisation

- bitches being bred too often causing health issues

- for profit

registered breeder

- health tests where necessary

- breeds for the betterment of the breed

- socialised puppies and dogs

- breeding adults behaviourally sound

- number of litters limited to protect the bitches health

etc etc.

[melzawelza]

You're right - there are pedigree breeders that are essentially puppy farmers too, so I want to focus on what needs to be looked for in a breeder if you want a sound, healthy, happy puppy.

I meant to mention earlier too - I want to focus on RESCUE as opposed to adopting straight from the pound/rspca. Most people I come across understand they can get a dog straight from the pound but have no idea what rescue or foster carers are. Most of these people don't want a rescue because they understandably worry about the temperament of the dog , and adopting straight from the pound this is a legitimate concern.

I want to show what rescue is, show the foster carers that have the dogs in their homes for a few months plus in order to determine the dogs good points and points that need work on - and match someone up suitably. I think if more people knew they could get a rescue dog from a home environment with a good idea of the dogs temperament they would be much more inclined to go down that route. It's also of course a way to highlight the hard work these wonderful people put in to 'picking up the pieces' that are a result of puppy farms, pet shops and indiscriminate breeding.

Great, looks like you have your storyline all set, now you just need to conjure the screenplay.

I can't quite tell if you are being rude and sarcastic or not, but if so then maybe you'd like to be a bit more civil.

I very much value the points you are making and am considering them thoroughly, there is no need to be rude.

If i was already set on exactly what I wanted to do, why would I be posting here asking for suggestions for ways to go about things and ideas?

I think that every point you've made is very valid, however you run the risk of people switching off with that know it all, holier than thou attitude. Luckily I am not hat kind of person and am taking everything you are saying on board.

Apologies if that was not your intent, but it is coming across that way.

[Ashanali]

haven't had a chance to read through the posts so apologies if this has already been said.

I think a comparison should be made between a puppy farm and a registered breeders. even with dot points on the screen for each.

eg. puppy farm

- no health testing or behavioural testing

- poor living conditions - cages etc

- undersocialisation

- bitches being bred too often causing health issues

- for profit

registered breeder

- health tests where necessary

- breeds for the betterment of the breed

- socialised puppies and dogs

- breeding adults behaviourally sound

- number of litters limited to protect the bitches health

etc etc.

I'm just playing devils advocate here...

The bolded parts may cause issues. Whilst we are all aware that there are puppy farms out there like this, there are also puppy farms out there who try to meet the absolute minimum requirements of health testing etc, because they cater for the 'educated' buyers who do ask questions.

You would be safer sticking to issues that are negatives of ALL puppy farms... overbreeding, not breeding for betterment of the breed, undersocialised. If you start throwing around claims about health testing, there is always going to be someone who comes out with, "but we health test".

If you're not prepared to back up your statements it's best to avoid making them in the first place. (I'm not saying that you're not prepared to back up your statements but it can be pretty hard to stand up and say that ALL puppy farms do the same thing when the fact is that they don't.)

[Souff]

You're right - there are pedigree breeders that are essentially puppy farmers too, so I want to focus on what needs to be looked for in a breeder if you want a sound, healthy, happy puppy.

I meant to mention earlier too - I want to focus on RESCUE as opposed to adopting straight from the pound/rspca. Most people I come across understand they can get a dog straight from the pound but have no idea what rescue or foster carers are. Most of these people don't want a rescue because they understandably worry about the temperament of the dog , and adopting straight from the pound this is a legitimate concern.

I want to show what rescue is, show the foster carers that have the dogs in their homes for a few months plus in order to determine the dogs good points and points that need work on - and match someone up suitably. I think if more people knew they could get a rescue dog from a home environment with a good idea of the dogs temperament they would be much more inclined to go down that route. It's also of course a way to highlight the hard work these wonderful people put in to 'picking up the pieces' that are a result of puppy farms, pet shops and indiscriminate breeding.

Great, looks like you have your storyline all set, now you just need to conjure the screenplay.

I can't quite tell if you are being rude and sarcastic or not, but if so then maybe you'd like to be a bit more civil.

I very much value the points you are making and am considering them thoroughly, there is no need to be rude.

If i was already set on exactly what I wanted to do, why would I be posting here asking for suggestions for ways to go about things and ideas?

I think that every point you've made is very valid, however you run the risk of people switching off with that know it all, holier than thou attitude. Luckily I am not hat kind of person and am taking everything you are saying on board.

Apologies if that was not your intent, but it is coming across that way.

Melzawelza,

I suspect that Lilli also knows the agenda of some of those who have given you advice earlier in this thread.

Their agenda is not the agenda of responsible dog breeders who use this forum which was in fact set up for breeders of purebred dogs, it was not a forum set up for the animal libbers but they are now here in their droves but they dont identify the organisation that they are from. Its a secret you see.

If you want to make a doco that will not just be the same as the rest, you would be well advised to set up some dialogue with people like Lilli.

At the monent you are actually coming across as haughty in your response to Lilli.

I hope you can make a doco that is more to the truth of the matter than many of the docos have been in the past and that it is truly reflective of the Australian scene. By doing that you might be doing the dogs a favour. To be sucked into the mantra of the animal libbers in this thread you wont be doing the dogs many favours at all.

Best of luck with your doco

Souff

[Dory the Doted One]

Hope no one was suggesting I'm one of those Animal Libbers with an agenda.

Because I don't take with their extreme line of thinking, just as I don't like this whole...Only purebred/pedigree dogs or purebred/pedigree dog breeders should be the sole source of dogs.

That's just trading one snobbery for another.

I don't condone puppymills, I don't condone BYBers breeding purely for profit.

I think some 'ethical' registered breeders breed way too many litters, but I also understand the need to maintain a diverse gene pool.

The reality is....not everyone wants a purebreed/pedigree dog.

In a recent thread someone asked if you had to list 10 breeds you would own...I couldn't come up with 10. Not for the life of me.

So because at this time, I don't want to own a pedigree dog I should sod off to some other forum? Or I should bite my tongue and not express my view?

[pixie_meg]

haven't had a chance to read through the posts so apologies if this has already been said.

I think a comparison should be made between a puppy farm and a registered breeders. even with dot points on the screen for each.

eg. puppy farm

- no health testing or behavioural testing

- poor living conditions - cages etc

- undersocialisation

- bitches being bred too often causing health issues

- for profit

registered breeder

- health tests where necessary

- breeds for the betterment of the breed

- socialised puppies and dogs

- breeding adults behaviourally sound

- number of litters limited to protect the bitches health

etc etc.

I'm just playing devils advocate here...

The bolded parts may cause issues. Whilst we are all aware that there are puppy farms out there like this, there are also puppy farms out there who try to meet the absolute minimum requirements of health testing etc, because they cater for the 'educated' buyers who do ask questions.

You would be safer sticking to issues that are negatives of ALL puppy farms... overbreeding, not breeding for betterment of the breed, undersocialised. If you start throwing around claims about health testing, there is always going to be someone who comes out with, "but we health test".

If you're not prepared to back up your statements it's best to avoid making them in the first place. (I'm not saying that you're not prepared to back up your statements but it can be pretty hard to stand up and say that ALL puppy farms do the same thing when the fact is that they don't.)

good point.

[melzawelza]

You're right - there are pedigree breeders that are essentially puppy farmers too, so I want to focus on what needs to be looked for in a breeder if you want a sound, healthy, happy puppy.

I meant to mention earlier too - I want to focus on RESCUE as opposed to adopting straight from the pound/rspca. Most people I come across understand they can get a dog straight from the pound but have no idea what rescue or foster carers are. Most of these people don't want a rescue because they understandably worry about the temperament of the dog , and adopting straight from the pound this is a legitimate concern.

I want to show what rescue is, show the foster carers that have the dogs in their homes for a few months plus in order to determine the dogs good points and points that need work on - and match someone up suitably. I think if more people knew they could get a rescue dog from a home environment with a good idea of the dogs temperament they would be much more inclined to go down that route. It's also of course a way to highlight the hard work these wonderful people put in to 'picking up the pieces' that are a result of puppy farms, pet shops and indiscriminate breeding.

Great, looks like you have your storyline all set, now you just need to conjure the screenplay.

I can't quite tell if you are being rude and sarcastic or not, but if so then maybe you'd like to be a bit more civil.

I very much value the points you are making and am considering them thoroughly, there is no need to be rude.

If i was already set on exactly what I wanted to do, why would I be posting here asking for suggestions for ways to go about things and ideas?

I think that every point you've made is very valid, however you run the risk of people switching off with that know it all, holier than thou attitude. Luckily I am not hat kind of person and am taking everything you are saying on board.

Apologies if that was not your intent, but it is coming across that way.

Melzawelza,

I suspect that Lilli also knows the agenda of some of those who have given you advice earlier in this thread.

Their agenda is not the agenda of responsible dog breeders who use this forum which was in fact set up for breeders of purebred dogs, it was not a forum set up for the animal libbers but they are now here in their droves but they dont identify the organisation that they are from. Its a secret you see

If you want to make a doco that will not just be the same as the rest, you would be well advised to set up some dialogue with people like Lilli.

At the monent you are actually coming across as haughty in your response to Lilli.

I hope you can make a doco that is more to the truth of the matter than many of the docos have been in the past and that it is truly reflective of the Australian scene. By doing that you might be doing the dogs a favour. To be sucked into the mantra of the animal libbers

in this thread you wont be doing the dogs many favours at all.

Best of luck with your doco

Souff

Souff, I have found both yours and lilli's posts a great help in this thread. You both have made me think about the sorts of ideas I was having and both gave great constrctive criticism on previous ideas from me and the other posters. I would value you both continuing to post.

I don't,however, find lilli's last post about writing a screenplay to be constructive at all. It came across as very sarcastic, quite rude and also demeaning. I definitely want to hear why certain ideas may not work, but I don't think it's necessary to ridicule. I hope lilli keeps posting but follows her original interesting, constructive tone, not the tone of her last post.

Edited August 1, 2010 by melzawelza

[BJean]

You're right - there are pedigree breeders that are essentially puppy farmers too, so I want to focus on what needs to be looked for in a breeder if you want a sound, healthy, happy puppy.

I meant to mention earlier too - I want to focus on RESCUE as opposed to adopting straight from the pound/rspca. Most people I come across understand they can get a dog straight from the pound but have no idea what rescue or foster carers are. Most of these people don't want a rescue because they understandably worry about the temperament of the dog , and adopting straight from the pound this is a legitimate concern.

I want to show what rescue is, show the foster carers that have the dogs in their homes for a few months plus in order to determine the dogs good points and points that need work on - and match someone up suitably. I think if more people knew they could get a rescue dog from a home environment with a good idea of the dogs temperament they would be much more inclined to go down that route. It's also of course a way to highlight the hard work these wonderful people put in to 'picking up the pieces' that are a result of puppy farms, pet shops and indiscriminate breeding.

Great, looks like you have your storyline all set, now you just need to conjure the screenplay.

I can't quite tell if you are being rude and sarcastic or not, but if so then maybe you'd like to be a bit more civil.

I very much value the points you are making and am considering them thoroughly, there is no need to be rude.

Without going into the inverse relationship between civility and rudeness -

If you cant quite tell if I'm being rude and sarcastic, then Im probably not.

If i was already set on exactly what I wanted to do, why would I be posting here asking for suggestions for ways to go about things and ideas?

Ways to go about things and ideas Vs what it actually is that you want to portray, are quite different.

Is this what you want to do:

highlight the hard work these wonderful people put in to 'picking up the pieces' that are a result of puppy farms, pet shops and indiscriminate breeding

I think that every point you've made is very valid, however you run the risk of people switching off with that know it all, holier than thou attitude. Luckily I am not hat kind of person and am taking everything you are saying on board.

If people are apt to switch off I hardly think they were 'on' in the first place.

I get called lots of things, but "holier than thou" isn't one of them :D

Edited August 1, 2010 by lilli