Insert New Regulation 3.3.9 3.3.9 Pregnant Bitches

[oakway]

Good luck getting a definition. Remember that was part of the issue surrounding the debarking. Nobody was entirely sure EXACTLY what constituted the word "exhibition".

From the deffinitions section of the Dogs qld rule book, I new I'd seen it somewhere.

“Exhibition” includes any Championship Show, Open Show, Parade, Endurance Test, Earthdog Test, Field

Trial, Obedience Trial, Obedience Sweepstake, Tracking Trial, Agility Trial, Herding Trial, Dances with Dogs,

Flyball, Puppy Match or Training event, assessment event or any other canine activity approved by the CCC(Q).

Good luck with that. Generally anything that is decreed by the CCC(Q) is different to every other State in Australia. For some reason the CCC(Q) and Vic Dogs think that they ALWAYS have to be different to every other state controlling body.

I'm not saying a word, I''m not saying a word.

I am just going to add what "ellz" has on the botom of the her page.

Lord, please keep your arm around my shoulder........and your hand over my mouth!

[ellz]

I'm not saying a word, I''m not saying a word.

I am just going to add what "ellz" has on the botom of the her page.

Lord, please keep your arm around my shoulder........and your hand over my mouth!

But I'm not far wrong am I?

Just nod your head, you don't need to say anything!

[oakway]

I'm not saying a word, I''m not saying a word.

I am just going to add what "ellz" has on the botom of the her page.

Lord, please keep your arm around my shoulder........and your hand over my mouth! :D

But I'm not far wrong am I?

Just nod your head, you don't need to say anything!

:D

I'll whistle you point.

[LovaStaffChih]

As printed in the August Dogs Vic gazette

Insert new Regulation 3.3.9

3.3.9 Pregnant Bitches

Due to the associated health risks it is strongly recommended

that bitches do not participate in exhibition after being mated.

The following restriction is mandatory.

3.3.9.1 A bitch is prohibited from exhibition for the period four

[4] weeks after mating until ten [10] weeks after whelping.

3.3.9.2 A bitch that fails to conceive may resume exhibition.

[LovaStaffChih]

As printed in the August Dogs Vic gazette

Insert new Regulation 3.3.9

3.3.9 Pregnant Bitches

Due to the associated health risks it is strongly recommended

that bitches do not participate in exhibition after being mated.

The following restriction is mandatory.

3.3.9.1 A bitch is prohibited from exhibition for the period four

[4] weeks after mating until ten [10] weeks after whelping.

3.3.9.2 A bitch that fails to conceive may resume exhibition.

I was hoping to enter my bitch in a few Obedience Trials before she gets to uncomfotable, does that mean she can't trial??

or is that just for Conformation???

[Dellahar]

Well have to disagree with this, here is a pic of my bitch 10 weeks after whelping 11 puppies all surviving, winning BISS beating well over 200 other Rottweilers, the young lady holding her is my daughter 10 weeks after giving birth to her first child. These 2 girls also competed 4 weeks prior to this when her pups were only 6 weeks old and took out Reserve CC & Best Aust Bred In Show at another specialty show. Before someone jumps up and down about this the puppies were just about hand reared and weaned at 3 weeks as she didnt have enough milk this why she bounced back so quickly.

[angelsun]

As I mentioned in the thread in Breeders:

First off...totally ridiculous rules

Second..how and who will police this?

What is the next step..no bitches to compete in CONFORMATION shows while in season? (they could in fact claim the above 3.3.9 rule description would apply there as well.

3.3.9.2 Do we have a form to fill out, signed by the vet that scanned the bitch saying she missed, or showing the blood tests that can be done at 21 days to confirm pregnancy.....or will we leave it up to our peers to mind our business and breeding program and let them dob us in?

Should be interesting.

Want to add, those that honestly beleive a bitch in season shouldn't be shown either due to a risk of infection....I would love to see documentation on this...in ALL the time I've been showing, and showing bitches in estrus...I have NEVER had one of them pick up anything..however..I HAVE had bitch puppies with vaginitis or similar who have never been outside my own yard and are 3-5 months of age....

The arguement of a bitch in season with the alleged 'open cervix' amuses me all the time. As mentioned...females both human and otherwise continue to mingle with their own, subject themselves to possible contaminents and yet seem to handle it quite well.

I don't think dog's on heat should be shown for the same reason you are not allowed to trial them. they distract the boys.

but you see, I don't agree with that either...in my opinion...proof the males...I've had my share of stupid boys but have figured ways around it. no biggie..that goes for obedience as well. What about not letting the boys piss all over the posts on the way into the ring....that can be 'distracting' for a strong minded male.....never mind just rude and gross...but we see it all the time...how about people that exercise their dogs in the rings before the shows?

There are FAR more important issues in my opinion than whether I choose to show my girl who is in season or not....some show like troopers, others stay home because they sulk....

[d_dambe]

RE the Victorian Regulation, the CEO responded in an e-mail with the following statement

"The amendments to the Regulations were made after consultation with both the Canine Health Committee and the Constitution Rules and Regulations Committee, arising from member complaints about instances of bitches being exhibited close to the time of whelping and afterwards. It is always unfortunate that such Regulations are required to control the activities of members who are not acting responsibly.

These regulations reflect current veterinary thinking and advice, etc and general care and concern for the welfare of the bitch."

This regulation seems to have been made in response to complaints - rather than dealing with and following up on the complaints, and seeking advice a blanket rule appears to have been made ???? Instead of dealing with members who aren't acting responsibily DogsVic appear to be penalising the majority who do.

If you don't agree with the Regulation and are are DogsVictoria member then do something, don't just complain.

Write to the CEO and the 2 commitees and ask them to be accountable for their decisions, ask that they get feedback from members, speak/ wirite to the CEO, President and commitee members at shows and raise your concerns, also ask for EVIDENCE of their decision making. I was involved in the issue about pregnant women in sport and the decisions made were made firstly on an evidence base about potential risks to mother and child (nearly negible through to 3rd trimester except for core body temperature of the mother) and secondly it's up to the women who is pregnant - if she doesn't want to be physically active then it her choice.

I agree with a regulation about pregnant/whelped/ actatating bitches IF evidence supports major breaches, but I would propose up to 6 weeks pregnant and 6 weeks after if they have rasied live puppies.

Surely we know our own bitches well enough to make decisions about showing them whilst pregnant at 5 or 6 weeks if they are happy, healthy and want to go out to shows ?

[d_dambe]

As I mentioned in the thread in Breeders:

First off...totally ridiculous rules

Second..how and who will police this?

What is the next step..no bitches to compete in CONFORMATION shows while in season? (they could in fact claim the above 3.3.9 rule description would apply there as well.

3.3.9.2 Do we have a form to fill out, signed by the vet that scanned the bitch saying she missed, or showing the blood tests that can be done at 21 days to confirm pregnancy.....or will we leave it up to our peers to mind our business and breeding program and let them dob us in?

Should be interesting.

Want to add, those that honestly beleive a bitch in season shouldn't be shown either due to a risk of infection....I would love to see documentation on this...in ALL the time I've been showing, and showing bitches in estrus...I have NEVER had one of them pick up anything..however..I HAVE had bitch puppies with vaginitis or similar who have never been outside my own yard and are 3-5 months of age....

The arguement of a bitch in season with the alleged 'open cervix' amuses me all the time. As mentioned...females both human and otherwise continue to mingle with their own, subject themselves to possible contaminents and yet seem to handle it quite well.

I don't think dog's on heat should be shown for the same reason you are not allowed to trial them. they distract the boys.

but you see, I don't agree with that either...in my opinion...proof the males...I've had my share of stupid boys but have figured ways around it. no biggie..that goes for obedience as well. What about not letting the boys piss all over the posts on the way into the ring....that can be 'distracting' for a strong minded male.....never mind just rude and gross...but we see it all the time...how about people that exercise their dogs in the rings before the shows?

There are FAR more important issues in my opinion than whether I choose to show my girl who is in season or not....some show like troopers, others stay home because they sulk....

[Ashanali]

Well have to disagree with this, here is a pic of my bitch 10 weeks after whelping 11 puppies all surviving, winning BISS beating well over 200 other Rottweilers, the young lady holding her is my daughter 10 weeks after giving birth to her first child. These 2 girls also competed 4 weeks prior to this when her pups were only 6 weeks old and took out Reserve CC & Best Aust Bred In Show at another specialty show. Before someone jumps up and down about this the puppies were just about hand reared and weaned at 3 weeks as she didnt have enough milk this why she bounced back so quickly.

You're proving the point of why some people think the rule is needed.

You had to wean your puppies out of need, however there is the suggestion that people are weaning puppies early just so they can rush them back into the show ring.

[Dellahar]

Ive seen people do far worse things for the sake of a ribbon, Ive seen someone bring their bitch with very young pups still suckling to a show in a trailer. I have also wittnesed someone hand feeding puppies only a few days old out of a basket on the font seat of their car at a show.

[Guest CaptainCourageous]

I would propose up to 6 weeks pregnant

And where do you get your data from to draw this conclusion? My bitch won Best Opposite In Specialty Shows (Open & Champ) at seven weeks pregnant recently and was completely OK. We haven't received adequate consultation from the Canine Health Committee on this issue.

CC

[Julie R]

I would propose up to 6 weeks pregnant

And where do you get your data from to draw this conclusion? My bitch won Best Opposite In Specialty Shows (Open & Champ) at seven weeks pregnant recently and was completely OK. We haven't received adequate consultation from the Canine Health Committee on this issue.

CC

Have you contacted D/V canine health and asked them for an explanation, if so what was their reply. ?????

Pam

[Ashanali]

Ive seen people do far worse things for the sake of a ribbon, Ive seen someone bring their bitch with very young pups still suckling to a show in a trailer. I have also wittnesed someone hand feeding puppies only a few days old out of a basket on the font seat of their car at a show.

I'm not disagreeing with you.

I feel that if the canine councils feel they need a rule like this, there should be better rules such as (this is just off the top of my head)... vet cert stating valid reasons puppies were weaned early, vet clearance for new mums, new mums can not be currently feeding pups when competing due to chance of passing infections to pups...

obviously not a perfect solution but better than one hard and fast rule that doesn't fit everyone and all circumstances.

[Guest CaptainCourageous]

Have you contacted D/V canine health and asked them for an explanation, if so what was their reply. ?????

Pam

I shall expect them to account for themselves at the AGM at a minimum. I only found out it came from that sub-committee when someone posted yesterday.

CC

[zenchel]

WorkingInWhelpBitches.doc

Have you contacted D/V canine health and asked them for an explanation, if so what was their reply. ?????

Pam

I shall expect them to account for themselves at the AGM at a minimum. I only found out it came from that sub-committee when someone posted yesterday.

CC

Why wait 'til the AGM - we can account for ourselves now

In Sep '09 the Canine Health Committee received a request from Dogs Vic - quote:

"As a result of an investigation undertaken by the Investigations Committee concerning a complaint against a member who had trialled a bitch close to the time of whelping, the Management Committee has request as a matter of urgency, that the Canine Health Committee develop guidelines regarding the welfare of bitches in whelp and their participation in sporting activities."

On behalf of CHC, Dr Ros Atyeo BVSc wrote the attached article. She and the entire CHC were under the impression the information would be used to establish guidelines - regulations were never mentioned.

The eventual regulation which now exists was never referred back to CHC, nor is it endorsed by CHC.

I would have liked to have been able to put the document plus these comments on the Dogs Vic Facebook site - I think it's a great idea and should be the place to go for discussions like these, but I'm fairly remedial at FB so couldn't figure out how to do it - sorry.

Sylvia Power

Chair, Canine Health Committee

[Guest CaptainCourageous]

Thanks Sylvia, it's good to get a better insight into how this came about. (Now I just have to work out how new Regs don't have to go to General Meetings).

CC

[Guest CaptainCourageous]

That CHC document makes a lot of sense. Some aspects I would like to see considered are:

- type of competitive event - e.g. ET, Agility/Jumping, Obedience, Conformation all have different demands

- suggestions on training during these times

- suggestions on accompanying kennel mates to events during these times

CC

[Bisart Dobes]

Yes, Thank you Sylvia - I have written to the CEO requesting answers to several questions regarding this matter and have not received a reply (one from her assistant saying that it was received and forwarded - but thats it). Very dissapointing considering we should all have some input to these things. This is not going to affect me or what I do with my dogs at all as I don't show them until their babies are in the ring anyway BUT I do balk at our right to make decisions being taken away from us when most breeders do do the right thing.

If this was all bought about by one person acting unfairly and trialing their bitch at a late pregnancy date and then that being reported and complained about it is just ridiculous - perhaps the VCA / Dogs Vic should actually throw the book at that person or people and make an example of them publically.

[Guest CaptainCourageous]

I would have liked to have been able to put the document plus these comments on the Dogs Vic Facebook site - I think it's a great idea and should be the place to go for discussions like these, but I'm fairly remedial at FB so couldn't figure out how to do it - sorry.

Just did it for you.

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic=13...0&topic=134

CC