Insert New Regulation 3.3.9 3.3.9 Pregnant Bitches

[oakway]

I'm a fence sitter here. I have shown my girl while in whelp, but not past 4 weeks.

I do know for a fact that there have been people tracking bitches in whelp when they have just a week to go before their due date. Stopping that ever happening again, I'm all for. Tracking is hard work for any dog, let alone a bitch in whelp.

Why ???,

I am not having a go at you in any shape size or form.........................but the bitch would have to maintain herself in the wild and catch her food.

[Rebanne]

how are they going to police it? Check every litter that is registered, see the birthdate, then go find out what shows the bitch has been to and when, and work out if it was in the prohibited time frame? What a joke. Fern could have been shown easily by 8 weeks after having 2 pups. In fact she could have been shown up to the day she had them and most wouldn't have picked her pregnancy.

[weisnjac]

I'm a fence sitter here. I have shown my girl while in whelp, but not past 4 weeks.

I do know for a fact that there have been people tracking bitches in whelp when they have just a week to go before their due date. Stopping that ever happening again, I'm all for. Tracking is hard work for any dog, let alone a bitch in whelp.

Why ???,

I am not having a go at you in any shape size or form.........................but the bitch would have to maintain herself in the wild and catch her food.

Our dogs are not in the wild, they are not used to going out and looking for their own food.

A track 6 (or it was back then) is hard work and and to put a bitch that far in whelp on the track, just to try and get a title on her name before the pups are born, in my opinior, is selfish. There was no rule stopping this from happening, I'm glad there is now.

[oakway]

I'm a fence sitter here. I have shown my girl while in whelp, but not past 4 weeks.

I do know for a fact that there have been people tracking bitches in whelp when they have just a week to go before their due date. Stopping that ever happening again, I'm all for. Tracking is hard work for any dog, let alone a bitch in whelp.

Why ???,

I am not having a go at you in any shape size or form.........................but the bitch would have to maintain herself in the wild and catch her food.

Our dogs are not in the wild, they are not used to going out and looking for their own food.

A track 6 (or it was back then) is hard work and and to put a bitch that far in whelp on the track, just to try and get a title on her name before the pups are born, in my opinior, is selfish. There was no rule stopping this from happening, I'm glad there is now.

I hear what you are saying but plenty of bitches have escaped and lived off the wild and delivered healthy pups.

(The day before one of my daughters was born I was crouching sheep).

[weisnjac]

I'm a fence sitter here. I have shown my girl while in whelp, but not past 4 weeks.

I do know for a fact that there have been people tracking bitches in whelp when they have just a week to go before their due date. Stopping that ever happening again, I'm all for. Tracking is hard work for any dog, let alone a bitch in whelp.

Why ???,

I am not having a go at you in any shape size or form.........................but the bitch would have to maintain herself in the wild and catch her food.

Our dogs are not in the wild, they are not used to going out and looking for their own food.

A track 6 (or it was back then) is hard work and and to put a bitch that far in whelp on the track, just to try and get a title on her name before the pups are born, in my opinior, is selfish. There was no rule stopping this from happening, I'm glad there is now.

I hear what you are saying but plenty of bitches have escaped and lived off the wild and delivered healthy pups.

(The day before one of my daughters was born I was crouching sheep).

For sure, I get what you and others are saying too, but I don't think it's necessary to have a bitch competing in sports so close to giving birth. If they feel like running wild, more power to them but I don't think we should be making them do it for our own pleasure.

[OSoSwift]

Like I said I wouldn't personally show my bitch after 4 weeks in whelp, however!

My bitch was returned from the breeder after being x-rayed as being not pregnant. He was coming back into my state for the Dobe Champ show and would bring her back with him As she was entered (I thought it was just a wasted entry) We decided to show her even though she appeared to be having a Phantom. Why not?! she was entered I had to drive 750kms to pick her up.

That was on the Saturday. We didn't show on the Sunday.

On the Thursday morning I went to take her for a walk at 6am and found One very healthy little balck puppy, cleaned and well fed. As you can imagine I was quite shocked and a little stressed!

She had flown interstate on the Friday, shown on the Saturday, driven 750kms home on the Sunday and given birth on the Thursday.

She was fine and the baby was fine, I wasn't!

I wouldn't do it by choice though!

[oakway]

I'm a fence sitter here. I have shown my girl while in whelp, but not past 4 weeks.

I do know for a fact that there have been people tracking bitches in whelp when they have just a week to go before their due date. Stopping that ever happening again, I'm all for. Tracking is hard work for any dog, let alone a bitch in whelp.

Why ???,

I am not having a go at you in any shape size or form.........................but the bitch would have to maintain herself in the wild and catch her food.

Our dogs are not in the wild, they are not used to going out and looking for their own food.

A track 6 (or it was back then) is hard work and and to put a bitch that far in whelp on the track, just to try and get a title on her name before the pups are born, in my opinior, is selfish. There was no rule stopping this from happening, I'm glad there is now.

I hear what you are saying but plenty of bitches have escaped and lived off the wild and delivered healthy pups.

(The day before one of my daughters was born I was crouching sheep).

For sure, I get what you and others are saying too, but I don't think it's necessary to have a bitch competing in sports so close to giving birth. If they feel like running wild, more power to them but I don't think we should be making them do it for our own pleasure.

I believe you will have no problems with anyone agreeing to that.

[oakway]

Like I said I wouldn't personally show my bitch after 4 weeks in whelp, however!

My bitch was returned from the breeder after being x-rayed as being not pregnant. He was coming back into my state for the Dobe Champ show and would bring her back with him As she was entered (I thought it was just a wasted entry) We decided to show her even though she appeared to be having a Phantom. Why not?! she was entered I had to drive 750kms to pick her up.

That was on the Saturday. We didn't show on the Sunday.

On the Thursday morning I went to take her for a walk at 6am and found One very healthy little balck puppy, cleaned and well fed. As you can imagine I was quite shocked and a little stressed!

She had flown interstate on the Friday, shown on the Saturday, driven 750kms home on the Sunday and given birth on the Thursday.

She was fine and the baby was fine, I wasn't!

I wouldn't do it by choice though!

It just goes to show that it can happen.

I do think that there are lot of working bitches out there that do their job and also give birth, just like we do.

[nynka]

A scenario.....you breed your bitch and don't think it has taken. Enter her and show her. 10 days before due date she looks a little pregnant even though you and others didn't think she was until then. She has 2 puppies. You have shown her and broken the rules. What happens then?

This policing sounds a bit over the top to me...

[OSoSwift]

Yep under those rules I would have been busted as well. Even though she had been cleared by a vet as not pregnant.

[Esky the husky]

Wow R n L that would have been a shock!

[nynka]

It has happened to me also.

[Hastings]

It has happened to me also.

guess there has to be extenuating circumstances, if the vet says no puppies, but I think maybe they are trying to stop the blatant exhibition of heavily pregnant bitches, and ones who have had a big litter and look like it.

I have seen several poor bitches dragged around the ring quite obviously pregnant all for a ribbon.....

Personally I do not show after mating after about 3 to 4 weeks and then only if the bitch is happy, and definately no earlier then 2 mths after. too open to infection my vet thinks.

My girls are very fit and run and chase rabbits etc right up to whelping but no forced shows.

[angelsun]

As I mentioned in the thread in Breeders:

First off...totally ridiculous rules

Second..how and who will police this?

What is the next step..no bitches to compete in CONFORMATION shows while in season? (they could in fact claim the above 3.3.9 rule description would apply there as well.

3.3.9.2 Do we have a form to fill out, signed by the vet that scanned the bitch saying she missed, or showing the blood tests that can be done at 21 days to confirm pregnancy.....or will we leave it up to our peers to mind our business and breeding program and let them dob us in?

Should be interesting.

Want to add, those that honestly beleive a bitch in season shouldn't be shown either due to a risk of infection....I would love to see documentation on this...in ALL the time I've been showing, and showing bitches in estrus...I have NEVER had one of them pick up anything..however..I HAVE had bitch puppies with vaginitis or similar who have never been outside my own yard and are 3-5 months of age....

The arguement of a bitch in season with the alleged 'open cervix' amuses me all the time. As mentioned...females both human and otherwise continue to mingle with their own, subject themselves to possible contaminents and yet seem to handle it quite well.

[OSoSwift]

Wow R n L that would have been a shock!

That was one word for it!

I spent the morning getting a Whelping box from a friend (luckily she had the same breed) getting newspapaers, blankets, heating pads etc. I also took the bitch in for an ultrasound to make sure that was it.

It was very hard as I was working full time as well. Only got it all happening due to very good friends and OH that did all the things I couldn't during the day.

But it certainly can happen.

[Steve]

There are two major factors here

One is that Id like to see the evidence that this is associated with health risks. Just because some of us think it might be the case doesn't make it so.

But the very biggest deal for me is that the decision on whats best for any bitch should be left up to the breeder and their vet.

Every time you turn around there are more and more regulations which are bought in because of a PR campaign which make no scientific sense and it implies we are all idiots and cant make the best decisions for our own dogs.

For me its like agreeing that we are a bunch of idiots and we need to be controlled.

[angelsun]

There are two major factors here

One is that Id like to see the evidence that this is associated with health risks. Just because some of us think it might be the case doesn't make it so.

But the very biggest deal for me is that the decision on whats best for any bitch should be left up to the breeder and their vet.

Every time you turn around there are more and more regulations which are bought in because of a PR campaign which make no scientific sense and it implies we are all idiots and cant make the best decisions for our own dogs.

For me its like agreeing that we are a bunch of idiots and we need to be controlled.

Well said and I agree completely. We are slowly losing any ability to make decisions about our dogs or a breed, but isn't this what PETA wants? No more breeders/purebred dogs or pets at all? Food for thought..perhaps it's not RSPCA flag that is flying at Dogs Vic, but a PETA flag......

[Steve]

There are two major factors here

One is that Id like to see the evidence that this is associated with health risks. Just because some of us think it might be the case doesn't make it so.

But the very biggest deal for me is that the decision on whats best for any bitch should be left up to the breeder and their vet.

Every time you turn around there are more and more regulations which are bought in because of a PR campaign which make no scientific sense and it implies we are all idiots and cant make the best decisions for our own dogs.

For me its like agreeing that we are a bunch of idiots and we need to be controlled.

Well said and I agree completely. We are slowly losing any ability to make decisions about our dogs or a breed, but isn't this what PETA wants? No more breeders/purebred dogs or pets at all? Food for thought..perhaps it's not RSPCA flag that is flying at Dogs Vic, but a PETA flag......

The Batemen report recommended that all dog activities should come under the banner of one independent welfare group and people who I had conversations with including some responsible for the pedigree dogs exposed issues are pushing for us to go that way.

In other words an outside group which would dictate what we can and cant breed , what breed standards are acceptable and what breeds should be made extinct etc

Im not going into how likely I think that all is but I think there are a lot of politics being played out behind the scenes in the dog world.

Id also be interested to see a copy of what Sylvia powers address to the recent puppy farming meeting with the RSPCA and rescue groups in Victoria was.

[nynka]

So, that would mean we would have to pay a vet to certify that our mated and non pregnant bitch (wasn't pregnant) before we attended a show. Crazy.

[oakway]

There are two major factors here

One is that Id like to see the evidence that this is associated with health risks. Just because some of us think it might be the case doesn't make it so.

But the very biggest deal for me is that the decision on whats best for any bitch should be left up to the breeder and their vet.

Every time you turn around there are more and more regulations which are bought in because of a PR campaign which make no scientific sense and it implies we are all idiots and cant make the best decisions for our own dogs.

For me its like agreeing that we are a bunch of idiots and we need to be controlled.

Well said and I agree completely. We are slowly losing any ability to make decisions about our dogs or a breed, but isn't this what PETA wants? No more breeders/purebred dogs or pets at all? Food for thought..perhaps it's not RSPCA flag that is flying at Dogs Vic, but a PETA flag......

The Batemen report recommended that all dog activities should come under the banner of one independent welfare group and people who I had conversations with including some responsible for the pedigree dogs exposed issues are pushing for us to go that way.

In other words an outside group which would dictate what we can and cant breed , what breed standards are acceptable and what breeds should be made extinct etc

Im not going into how likely I think that all is but I think there are a lot of politics being played out behind the scenes in the dog world.

Id also be interested to see a copy of what Sylvia powers address to the recent puppy farming meeting with the RSPCA and rescue groups in Victoria was.

True and while we bend to this dictatorship we will be our own worst enemies.