Insert New Regulation 3.3.9 3.3.9 Pregnant Bitches

[Julie R]

Id also be interested to see a copy of what Sylvia powers address to the recent puppy farming meeting with the RSPCA and rescue groups in Victoria was.

Hi

I attended the seminar where Sylvia Power gave her power point presentation, and in my opinion it was a VERY good example of what most of us, the pure breed dogs breeders think and do, believe me she certainly didn't pull any punches, she said it how it is, and I truly admire her fortitude, and if only we had a lot more like her in the pure bred dog world, then I am sure we wouldn’t be in the sh**t that we are all in at the moment...

Sylvias presentation can be viewed on the following link taken from DOGS Vic website. .

[Read Responsible Breeders' Perspective on Puppy Farming to see the presentation recently delivered at an RSPCA seminar on this topic by DOGS Victoria member and Canine Health Committee chair, Sylvia Power. Download as Power Point presentation or PDF. ]

[Missymoo]

how are they going to police it? Check every litter that is registered, see the birthdate, then go find out what shows the bitch has been to and when, and work out if it was in the prohibited time frame? What a joke. Fern could have been shown easily by 8 weeks after having 2 pups. In fact she could have been shown up to the day she had them and most wouldn't have picked her pregnancy.

thats what i was going to post..a ridiculous rule... ;)

[Blakbelgian]

Everyone should know their bitch and if their bitch is capable of being shown at any time during pregnancy.

If the bitch isn't up to it or isn't in good mood then you know to scratch her.

Silly rule this is!!

BB

[Dracdog]

As I mentioned in the thread in Breeders:

First off...totally ridiculous rules

Second..how and who will police this?

What is the next step..no bitches to compete in CONFORMATION shows while in season? (they could in fact claim the above 3.3.9 rule description would apply there as well.

3.3.9.2 Do we have a form to fill out, signed by the vet that scanned the bitch saying she missed, or showing the blood tests that can be done at 21 days to confirm pregnancy.....or will we leave it up to our peers to mind our business and breeding program and let them dob us in?

Should be interesting.

Want to add, those that honestly beleive a bitch in season shouldn't be shown either due to a risk of infection....I would love to see documentation on this...in ALL the time I've been showing, and showing bitches in estrus...I have NEVER had one of them pick up anything..however..I HAVE had bitch puppies with vaginitis or similar who have never been outside my own yard and are 3-5 months of age....

The arguement of a bitch in season with the alleged 'open cervix' amuses me all the time. As mentioned...females both human and otherwise continue to mingle with their own, subject themselves to possible contaminents and yet seem to handle it quite well.

I don't think dog's on heat should be shown for the same reason you are not allowed to trial them. they distract the boys.

[Silvawilow]

I think these new rules are crazy. Pregnancy is not an illness.

If your girl is happy, healthy and bright then I see no problem with showing them.

[Silvawilow]

I don't think dog's on heat should be shown for the same reason you are not allowed to trial them. they distract the boys.

Proof your boys better then!

[oakway]

As I mentioned in the thread in Breeders:

First off...totally ridiculous rules

Second..how and who will police this?

What is the next step..no bitches to compete in CONFORMATION shows while in season? (they could in fact claim the above 3.3.9 rule description would apply there as well.

3.3.9.2 Do we have a form to fill out, signed by the vet that scanned the bitch saying she missed, or showing the blood tests that can be done at 21 days to confirm pregnancy.....or will we leave it up to our peers to mind our business and breeding program and let them dob us in?

Should be interesting.

Want to add, those that honestly beleive a bitch in season shouldn't be shown either due to a risk of infection....I would love to see documentation on this...in ALL the time I've been showing, and showing bitches in estrus...I have NEVER had one of them pick up anything..however..I HAVE had bitch puppies with vaginitis or similar who have never been outside my own yard and are 3-5 months of age....

The arguement of a bitch in season with the alleged 'open cervix' amuses me all the time. As mentioned...females both human and otherwise continue to mingle with their own, subject themselves to possible contaminents and yet seem to handle it quite well.

I don't think dog's on heat should be shown for the same reason you are not allowed to trial them. they distract the boys.

I think you mean bitches in season.

I show dogs with bitches in season and have never had a problem. In some cases it has been a distinct advantage. Train your dogs better is my only solution.

[mirawee]

I don't think dog's on heat should be shown for the same reason you are not allowed to trial them. they distract the boys.

I guess that means my dog isn't a boy then since he is quite happy to show when there are in season bitches around, including right behind him in breed or group runoffs... in fact he shows off much more

10 weeks after whelping is harsh although obviously depending on the bitch. But with long coated bitches you usually get a few weeks after weaning that they look absolutely fabulous and then around 9 - 10 weeks after whelping they become naked :D And I know my girls certainly wouldn't have minded showing off post whelping.

[SparkyTansy]

I don't necessarily disagree with the rule, but simply why it's being imposed... as always it's for the minority of idiots that ruin it for the rest (that do things in the best interests of the dogs) by taking things to the extreme...

[Guest CaptainCourageous]

No one has answered my query as to why we didn't get to debate and vote on this.

I assume the "Dogs Victoria" Committee of Management has made the rule on our behalf.

I'm looking forward to a detailed explanation from them as to why the time periods selected were chosen.

I'm also keen for an exploration of implications - should kennel mates also stay home in this period? Should we retain pups to ten weeks as policy now?

CC

[ellz]

I don't think dog's on heat should be shown for the same reason you are not allowed to trial them. they distract the boys.

Interesting generalisation there. For my part I have found that the only boys which are distracted are the ones who are not trained well. My own boys are not girl silly at all.

[ellz]

I have shown bitches at 5 or 6 weeks in whelp, simply because I didn't know that they WERE in whelp. Except for one occasion when the bitch had had ongoing temperament issues in the ring and was shown at 5 weeks in whelp...don't know if it was the hormones or what but she turned a major corner that day and was barking at the judge for bait and animating all over the place....she won RUBIG.

Not showing bitches for 10 weeks after is a bit of a scary one though...talk about Big Brother walking in wearing jackboots. I've seen bitches at 8 weeks look simply sensational and win Specialty shows and yes, I agree with other posters....what if all puppies from the litter are lost or the bitch absorbs the litter? Bit unfair in that case.

[Guest CaptainCourageous]

Also, I'm wondering what is an Exhibition, as there seems to be at least four different contexts:

3.4.9.2 an Affiliate to be approved to conduct Conformation, Obedience, Tracking, Retrieving and Field, Agility, Endurance Exhibitions and the like;

3.5.7 Disqualifications

A dog may be disqualified from competition or exhibition

4.1.2 All dogs must be registered with the ANKC or with an ANKC recognised controlling body, and their registered owners financial members of the VCA or of an ANKC recognised controlling body before being eligible for entry for competition or exhibition or participation in any VCA recognised activity.

7.11.15 A Judge may order from the judging ring or debar from further competition any exhibit and its handler, if the Judge is of the opinion that the exhibit or the handler is acting or behaving in a manner detrimental to the proper running of the Show, exhibition or event.

[ellz]

Good luck getting a definition. Remember that was part of the issue surrounding the debarking. Nobody was entirely sure EXACTLY what constituted the word "exhibition".

[SparkyTansy]

No one has answered my query as to why we didn't get to debate and vote on this.

I assume the "Dogs Victoria" Committee of Management has made the rule on our behalf.

I'm looking forward to a detailed explanation from them as to why the time periods selected were chosen.

I'm also keen for an exploration of implications - should kennel mates also stay home in this period? Should we retain pups to ten weeks as policy now?

CC

While I am quite aware of the implications of this rule I am speaking from a different POV here. as a member, you have voted in the committee and in matters such as rule changes, unless specifically mentioned as requiring a member vote, I imagine the committee is acting on behalf of the member body, as they have been voted onto the committee to do.

I suggest you look at the constitution to see if there has been a breach and go from there.

[Guest CaptainCourageous]

While I am quite aware of the implications of this rule I am speaking from a different POV here. as a member, you have voted in the committee and in matters such as rule changes, unless specifically mentioned as requiring a member vote, I imagine the committee is acting on behalf of the member body, as they have been voted onto the committee to do.

I suggest you look at the constitution to see if there has been a breach and go from there.

I guess there'll be a Rule allowing the CoM to make regulations. But I'd like the science behind the decision explained, and the VCA President wrote an article on improving communication with members recently.

[Guest CaptainCourageous]

I don't think dog's on heat should be shown for the same reason you are not allowed to trial them. they distract the boys.

Proof your boys better then!

Handlers of males often like to have a bitch in season come near their dog to fire them up before going into the show ring. They don't like their scent on the ring surface though.

What bitches in season do spoil though is the show performance of the males in their household.

CC

[WreckitWhippet]

That is insane. For one, a pregnant bitch is "pregnant" not ill. I will often show them until I think they look too big and not at their best.

As for the ten weeks, who in the hell made that line in the sand ? There are some bitches that never recover from a litter and other who bounce back the day they shut the milk bar down.

I've had one win a RUBIS ( was only an open ) the weekend her pups left home. She turned off the milk supply when she was ready and looked a million dollars. Who is to say she wasn't fit enough or looked the part.

[Dracdog]

Good luck getting a definition. Remember that was part of the issue surrounding the debarking. Nobody was entirely sure EXACTLY what constituted the word "exhibition".

From the deffinitions section of the Dogs qld rule book, I new I'd seen it somewhere.

“Exhibition” includes any Championship Show, Open Show, Parade, Endurance Test, Earthdog Test, Field

Trial, Obedience Trial, Obedience Sweepstake, Tracking Trial, Agility Trial, Herding Trial, Dances with Dogs,

Flyball, Puppy Match or Training event, assessment event or any other canine activity approved by the CCC(Q).

[ellz]

Good luck getting a definition. Remember that was part of the issue surrounding the debarking. Nobody was entirely sure EXACTLY what constituted the word "exhibition".

From the deffinitions section of the Dogs qld rule book, I new I'd seen it somewhere.

“Exhibition” includes any Championship Show, Open Show, Parade, Endurance Test, Earthdog Test, Field

Trial, Obedience Trial, Obedience Sweepstake, Tracking Trial, Agility Trial, Herding Trial, Dances with Dogs,

Flyball, Puppy Match or Training event, assessment event or any other canine activity approved by the CCC(Q).

Good luck with that. Generally anything that is decreed by the CCC(Q) is different to every other State in Australia. For some reason the CCC(Q) and Vic Dogs think that they ALWAYS have to be different to every other state controlling body.