Help With Breed Selection (formerly: Gsp Vs. English Pointer)

[FHRP]

Get a boy

As a general rule I always suggest the opposite sex to what you currently have for your second dog. There is a higher chance the dogs (dog & bitch) will get along. However, in the breeds you're looking at, if you were set on getting another bitch, you would probably be fine! There are already many examples in this thread of people with multiples of the same sex. I personally have four male dogs, all of which were entire together at some stage (have since had one surgically desexed and another recently chemically castrated for health reasons). So, you can probably tell I prefer male dogs With sensible management, my boys all get along fantastically.

Edited July 31, 2010 by FHRP

[marinapoint]

Again I'm going to back up my other pointer owner/lovers here, ALL of my dogs, with the exception of my puppy who is still learning, have excellent recall. My bitch Aida, doesnt range at all, never has, never will. She prefers to go walkies with me, and sticks to me like Ashanali's Sunni. She is super keen on birds, but as soon as you call her she turns around and comes straight back. My boys are excellent, though he is more inclinded to run further away from me, but again ALWAYS returns when hes called. Won't discuss puppy as shes still learning!! Sometimes shes great, othertimes the distraction is too exciting to ignore. But she is only 9mths old.

If you would like to look into puppies, go onto the puppy page of the pointer breed profile and look there, there actually are quite a few advertised. As far as your choice in sex goes, I'd probably recommend a dog, even though I've never had issues with 2 bitches. Pointers generally dont seek conflict so agression between sexes isnt common.

Alternativly I can give you some details of some pointers breeders in SA if you PM me.

[Joel]

I'm inclined to not get a rescue this time - every dog I've ever had has been a rescue, including Honey (who already has some behavioral problems (afterall, she had a pretty horrible life before we got her (ill put her history at the bottom of this post). I'd like to start fresh this time and would like to experience the joy of a puppy for a change (I've been around puppies before (my family has gotten rottie puppies)).

On another note, I think we will end up getting a male. We haven't decided 100% yet, but I would just like to limit the POSSIBILITY of fighting as much as I can. We'll see though.

Also, how do you train your dogs recall? I mean, getting a dog to come when its called is one thing - getting it to come when theres something REALLY interesting in the other direction, is another.

HONEY's BACKGROUND:

Honey was rescued when my mum and aunt took a trip to QLD to get some information for our family tree and found her next door to where they were staying. She was put in a backyard separate from the house, full of prickles and only being fed banana skins... occasionally. When we got her, she looked terrible. I mean, you could tell that she was the sweetest thing, but the way that she had been treated made her look absolutely horrible. She was all skin and bones, had cuts all over her and was too scared to move. So my mum and aunt stormed over, knocked on their door and said they were going to take both dogs (there was a maltese mix too although it was in better condition, it just hadn't been groomed and had prickles in its face). The owners refused to give over the maltese, but said they didn't care about the other one and they could take it if they wanted. So, back to Melbourne they came. Honey was spayed, and then stayed at my aunts for a while (she has two rotties as well and a huge property). After a while we were offered the opportunity to take her and took it. Training her as been an uphill battle. She'd never been on a lead, never been on a walk, never been inside the house, never socialized apart from the little maltese mix, didn't know how to act around people, nothing. She was scared of absolutely everything (she's still scared of strange noises). She was so scared in the beginning that she didn't want to come out from her crate. Now she's prettty good. She still has some problems. but she is one of the sweetest dogs ive ever been around. All she wants to do is play and snuggle. I think she would chew her own foot off before she hurt anyone. She's got the sweetest eyes and face - i don't know how anyone could treat her (or any animal for that matter) the way she was treated. We love her ;)

Edited August 1, 2010 by Joel

[FionaC]

training for recall? - initially you have to be far more interesting than what you are recalling the dog from, once they learn to come back to you then it begins to stick ... although I don't believe any dog is 100% recall-able (hmmm not sure that's even a word) , but if you're going to let any dog off lead you need a good recall first

have to start early as well, teach them that their name is for attention and a word (such as "come" or "here" is the recall word) that way they give you their attention on their name and then you give an instruction .... when they are puppies, you dance, you jump up and down you talk in high pitched excited voices, you have great smelling and tasting food and you repeat repeat repeat .....

You'll need to train a GSP, whether it is formal obedience classes, 1:1 instruction or you just working with him/her .... if you get a boy he can potentially grow up to just under 70cm at the shoulder (my oldest boy is 68cm so outside the standard) and weighing 30ish kgs .... you want him to be trained in the basics at the least....

Edited August 1, 2010 by FionaC

[pixie_meg]

I'm inclined to not get a rescue this time - every dog I've ever had has been a rescue, including Honey (who already has some behavioral problems (afterall, she had a pretty horrible life before we got her (ill put her history at the bottom of this post). I'd like to start fresh this time and would like to experience the joy of a puppy for a change (I've been around puppies before (my family has gotten rottie puppies)).

On another note, I think we will end up getting a male. We haven't decided 100% yet, but I would just like to limit the POSSIBILITY of fighting as much as I can. We'll see though.

Also, how do you train your dogs recall? I mean, getting a dog to come when its called is one thing - getting it to come when theres something REALLY interesting in the other direction, is another.

HONEY's BACKGROUND:

Honey was rescued when my mum and aunt took a trip to QLD to get some information for our family tree and found her next door to where they were staying. She was put in a backyard separate from the house, full of prickles and only being fed banana skins... occasionally. When we got her, she looked terrible. I mean, you could tell that she was the sweetest thing, but the way that she had been treated made her look absolutely horrible. She was all skin and bones, had cuts all over her and was too scared to move. So my mum and aunt stormed over, knocked on their door and said they were going to take both dogs (there was a maltese mix too although it was in better condition, it just hadn't been groomed and had prickles in its face). The owners refused to give over the maltese, but said they didn't care about the other one and they could take it if they wanted. So, back to Melbourne they came. Honey was spayed, and then stayed at my aunts for a while (she has two rotties as well and a huge property). After a while we were offered the opportunity to take her and took it. Training her as been an uphill battle. She'd never been on a lead, never been on a walk, never been inside the house, never socialized apart from the little maltese mix, didn't know how to act around people, nothing. She was scared of absolutely everything (she's still scared of strange noises). She was so scared in the beginning that she didn't want to come out from her crate. Now she's prettty good. She still has some problems. but she is one of the sweetest dogs ive ever been around. All she wants to do is play and snuggle. I think she would chew her own foot off before she hurt anyone. She's got the sweetest eyes and face - i don't know how anyone could treat her (or any animal for that matter) the way she was treated. We love her ;)

There are a few pointer(and possibly GSP) adults available on DOL. They're not rescues, just often dogs that didn't make the show grade. might be an option.

For me I'm a big pointer fan. There are a few breeders on the pointer breed subforum who are nice to talk and there are a number of litters on the ground at the moment.

[Snowysal]

There are lots of wonderfully bred GSP's on here - I don't think its the place or the right thing to do here(naming specific breeders) but we went to Tassie and met ours(latest one) at 4 weeks old and she was flown to ACT when she was finally old enough.

A good breeder will give you back up and be interested long after the pup goes home with you.

It didnt bother her one bit - in fact she was put out and belligerent if anything about it(a testiment to her breeders excellent preparation we think). She also bonded instantly as much as she was ready to. The Tassie Devil (Flute) is deeply entrenched in our family a year on.

Just a small ( )warning - I notice noone has given you any and I KNOW our girls are not exclusive in this. GSP's are addictive and they can also be quite expensive in the destructive area of things. eg our girls have (over the years) destroyed carpets (chewing them up) beds,furniture,smashed full size plate glass windows(ninja throws over the shoulder wrestling) countless chewed and stolen toys,knick knacks and frankly in Flutes case - anything that takes her fancy - they can be a full on breed which is why you often see the phrase- éxperienced in the breed'when referring to them.Also their hunting instinct is EXTREMELY strong- meaning they can nick off in a flash if you take your eyes off them for a second off leash.

All that being said - we wouldnt live without them. Sienna has just come in with me from down the paddock turning the horses out and letting off her steam for the day. Now to do the same for the others then light the fire and watch them all crash for the day with a beef chew.

[SparkyTansy]

Good to hear that pointers have a better recall than setters

I have to say yes it does come down to training, but it pays to know the type of temperament traits and a breeds history. If all behaviours were the result of training alone, all the dogs would be the same.

Joel also keep in mind, wanting a pup as soon as possible is fine, but you have to make doubly sure you do your research to make sure you know what you are getting.

[Joel]

yep, thats one of the reasons why I'm here ;)

I would never get a dog without first doing the research. I have a MASSIVE issue with people that get pets without first understanding what they're signing up for. That is the reason I posted on here asking about the differences between the two. I know that I personally have trouble with super hyperactive dogs, which I heard GSPs are (which is fine, and I know that each individual dog is different, but generally speaking) and that doesn't necesarilly suit my current situation. My dream is to one day own a farm, with more land than I know what to do with and not worry that my animals aren't going to have enough room. THEN, I can get a hyper dog and be confident that I can exercise them enough for their level of energy. (At the moment I have a decent sized backyard where I'm staying, but theres sheds and stuff in the way, so theres no long "run"). I am lucky that Honey (who is a working breed) has a relatively low energy level for her breed(s) (dont get me wrong, when we play and exercise her, she goes flat out, and can go flat out for a long time, but she is just as happy being a lazy bum ). What my situation calls for at the moment is a dog that can both keep up with her as far as energy stores go, but one that can also be comfortable relaxing and chilling out while they're not playing. It just so happens that I like the look of both English & German Shorthaired Pointers, and like their ability to do fieldwork (not that its really that important to me, I just find the idea somewhat romantic, lol). If anyone has some other breed suggestions, I'm definitely open to them, I was just drawn to both types of Pointers from videos that I've watched of them.

I also really like the look of Blue Merle Border Collies, but I think that they'll have more energy than I can handle at the moment and need more grooming than I'm prepared for. When we first started considering getting another dog (which was almost a year ago, so I've been looking in to it for a long time, just getting more serious about it now), I was looking in to getting a Samoyed as I heard their temperaments are almost the perfect example of what a dogs temperament should be. On the other hand, the grooming that they require is more than what we're prepared to do (especially considering at the time when we were in Melbourne, we would go to my aunts house AT LEAST once a week and all the dogs would swim in the muddy dam). I also think that a Samoyed would struggle with heat (even though I was told that they handle it fine).

I was also considering a German Shepherd as they're known to be extremely intelligent, reasonably energetic, don't require a huge amount of grooming and have a pretty good temperament, but I don't like the idea that people are always automatically on the back foot when they look at a German Shepherd because theres so much publicity out there saying that they're dangerous (even though I know its not the case - my family has owned GSs before). I also dont like how they have been bred to stand with their hind legs stretched so far back - it makes them look awkward and unnatural (I know that they aren't all like this, but again, generally speaking).

I've also looked at Chesapeake Bay Retrievers, Labs, Dachshunds (my family has owned a lot of these over the years - we just love them, but Honey plays too rough to have one of these and it wouldnt be able to keep up with her), American Bulldogs and Huskies. At the end of it all, we've come down to GS and English Pointers. They seem to tick most, if not all of the boxes that I'm looking at the next member of our family ticking: High level of energy with the ability to be calm and chilled out, low maintenance in regards to grooming, level temperament, intelligent, friendly, love attention, and all in all a nice looking dog.

Like I said, if anyone has any other suggestions though, I'm certainly open to them

[FHRP]

I know that I personally have trouble with super hyperactive dogs, which I heard GSPs are (which is fine, and I know that each individual dog is different, but generally speaking) and that doesn't necesarilly suit my current situation. My dream is to one day own a farm, with more land than I know what to do with and not worry that my animals aren't going to have enough room. THEN, I can get a hyper dog and be confident that I can exercise them enough for their level of energy.

GSPs are high energy dogs that need regular physical and mental stimulation. They however are not "super hyperactive" and indeed any gundog that is hyperactive or uncontrolable is useless for their original purpose and these traits should never be perpetuated. However, it does sound like you're not sure you could provide the regular phyiscal exercise necessary for a GSP. If they don't have the appropriate outlets, they will become destructive, noisy and very unhappy.

My GSP is a full on active dog. When he is out running, he is running hard, fast and far. He has an excellent recall to voice or whistle and he has regular training in various dog sports. He is an excitable dog, but of an evening or on the weekend you will find him curled up on the couch next to me. It's actually my 12 year old Vizsla that gets antsy and hard to settle!! My GSP is not destructive, he's had run of the house from an early age and only seems to have a fetish for TV remote controls ;)

[Joel]

lol about the remote controls.

I am becoming more and more confident that I would be able to handle the energy of most, if not all breeds (yesterday I found an oval which I will be able to have my dog(s) off leash and will not be bothered by other peoples poorly trained dogs, so I can let mine run like madmen and play frisbee to their hearts content. We took Honey there yesterday and she was WOOOOOORN OUT by the end of it. As soon as she got back in the car, bang on her side lying down, wrecked. Hehehe, it was great to see. She really loves it. Up until now it was a case of how I would exercise them in this backyard without pulling out the sheds (which I'm still considering, but have to run it by the owner first (my partner and I live in a small cottage type thing in the back), but now, we have a place to go and completely tire the dog(s) out! :D:D:D I couldn't be more excited ;)

Even after spending some time with fiveplusone's GSP, Hugo (who is amazing by the way - really sweet and one of the most interesting looking GSPs I have seen (and boy have I looked at a lot of pictures) and thank you again for letting us come and spend some time with you and your family ) I am leaning away from GSPs as a breed for me at this point in time. Even though they are not ALL like energizer bunnies, I think generally speaking they are and I don't think I would feel right keeping them confined to a small space, no matter how often I took them to the park (I mean, honestly, most people (including me) would limit it to once a day as thats what their schedule allows (maybe twice on occasion) and I just dont want to risk that not being enough.

Hmm...

[Snowysal]

Sensible advice FHRP - Joel have you looked into a Belgian shepherd or even flick down through the breed pages, perhaps the currently very popular staffie,or even a JRT, smart as a tack,agile good for flyball or just chilling. Im sure theres many other breeds out there people would be willing to offer advice on as well - try changing your heading on the main page to invite their advice also.

[Joel]

Thanks for the suggestion - Ive edited the topic title and put another bit in my first post

[fiveplusone]

"I am leaning away from GSPs as a breed for me at this point"

.....Hugo says

PS was lovely meeting both of you......you still owe us puppy cuddles though, regardless of what breed you end up getting!

[dee lee]

I have been reading this thread with great interest.

I love gundog breeds and would love one with less shedding for my next dog (many years and a different house away)! Pointers/GSPs were at he top of my list so its been a very interesting read.

However, like you, I have serious misgivings about whether I could provide the level of exercise they need.

My suggestion is- What about a Smooth Collie?

[darlingdog]

Thanks for the suggestion - Ive edited the topic title and put another bit in my first post

HI Joel, I have 3 english pointers and can't recommend them highly enough. Lovely lovely breed, very affectionate, very funny and sometimes very destructive in the teen years LOL !! If you were to decide on this breed just wanted to say there is one in the Melbourne Lost dogs home at the moment. Might be worth a look. All the best with whatever you decide to get.

[poodlefan]

Bugger the gundogs!

How about a nice Whippet?

[lappiemum]

Have you considered Finnish Lapphunds? They will keep up with your kelpie, but are not as over the top as other working dog breeds. Very social, friendly and intelligent. Easy to train. temperament wise, you can have personalities that are a bit more zoomie, or you can have the ultra laid back versions Grooming is not an issue, they have a double coat which is insualated so its warm in winter and regulates their body heat in summer. They shed once or twice a year. Coat is very easy to maintain, a 10min brush once a week is fine. Medium sized dog that is suited to farm or suburban life. Check out the Finnish Lapphund thread here of DOL dog breeds 101.

This is a pic of my cream boy - I should mention that lappies come in a wide range of canine colours!

[mackiemad]

i think if the grooming of a sammy is too much for him, or a collie, then the requirements of a lappie would also be not ideal for what he wants? he doesn't want to brush everyday or a few times a week, nor does he want a coat blowing, i think. but i might be wrong as i am kind of reading between the lines here...

i'm putting in a vote for the english pointer or the smooth collie.

[Nevafollo]

Have read your update in the OP joel and I STILL think pointers are exactly what you are after! You seriously need to meet some to truely understand how perfect they are!!!

[TangerineDream]

I've had 2 male GSP's and after owning Dobermanns can say that they haven't been at all destructive (but it depends on the line....some are, some aren't - I've been lucky).

Cadence was quieter than Tango is - Tango was nicknamed "Mr Overenthusiastic" due to his habit in the showring for the first 15 months or so of spending very little time with all 4 feet on the ground.....in your face, friends with everyone and their dogs, always wanting to be involved.......now, at the age of 5, he's the most wonderful, laid back, confident, pleasant dog to have around (currently lying on my foot in front of the heater under the desk)...sometimes hyper outside if there's some excitement to be had, but a true lounge lizard inside.....haven't owned Pointers, but they seem gentler...standing up and gently placing their feet on you, whereas a GSP is more likely to bounce off you..

Go the GSPs!! if you can stand some 'red cordial' enthusiasm at times <g>

Edited August 4, 2010 by TangerineDream