Crate Necessary?

[Persian Spitz]

I was thinking of crate training my boy so he knows to go outside when he wants to wee.

Having looked at several crates in a pet supply store and online, I've noticed that a crate is pretty much a cage. I just wanted to ask what the purpose of the crate is. Is it so the pup has a place where he feels secure? Is it so he doesn't run around the house? Is it so he's confined to one area and won't answer the call of nature in such a confined space?

I was thinking that if it's only to limit his movement in he house, I could just place him on a coffee table (with a larger surface area than a crate) because he never jumps off. Would this be a legitimate alternate or is a crate necessary?

[megan_]

He'll soon learn to jump. And if it is high and he is jumping off a lot he can harm his joints.

I think it is best not to humanise - to him, it isn't a cage, but a safe den. A place to go to rest, to have some peace away from kids etc. A place to put him at night and know that he can't get himself hurt etc. You can get soft crates that look a lot nicer in the home too.

Dogs are clean creatures and don't tend to go the toilet where they sleep. That said, when he is still little, you will need to get up and let him out at night.

There are some people who, IMO, "abuse" the crate and use it as a substitute from training and also lock their dogs in their for extreme periods of time (seems to be a trend in the US?), but if used properly it can be a great tool.

[aussielover]

You could also use a small puppy playpen.

I don't really see him sleeping on a coffee table...

I use a crate for short periods of confinement and bedtime. I use a puppy playpen (well used too before she learnt how to get out of it!) for longer periods or when I can't watch her like when I need to do cleaning or cooking etc

I also use tying up when I am studying or working and will tie her under my seat. this is because I don't have a crate available at uni. She has never had an accident at uni using this tie up method. I was told puppies are unlikely to toilet if they are right underneath you which has proved to be true in this case. I take her out to pee every hour or as soon as she wakes.

[Persian Spitz]

Thanks for the replies. I've actually tried to get him to jump off the table. The coffee table is pretty low, about 25cm and he's about 45cm on all fours, so it's funny when an excited ball of fur is reluctant to jump down from that height even with the lure of a treat. Strangely though, I raised him in a puppy playpen around 35-40cm high and he learned to jump over that.

When he's inside the house and I can't him give my full attention, I put him on the table and he gives an indication when he wants to do his business outside so I guess he's partially learned. But I haven't tried it at night yet. I'm concerned about the restrictive nature of the crate, it looks too confined being able to only take a 3-4 steps forward and back; and the dog behind bars looks quite sad.

I have a couple more questions about the crate:

1. Normally, how do they give the signal on when they want to go outside?

2. When they give the signal, is there enough time to - unlock crate, get them out, put lead on them, run them out the door?

3. Should it be like a home to them (should it have their toys)?

4. Is it best to place the crate in the bedroom or another part of the house?

[Niques]

I would not have trusted my pup to stay on a table. It sounds very dangerous. Not to mention if yours are anything like our coffee tables, it would be slippery underpaw and he could just as easily fall off.

We popped together a couple of Bunnings wire bins to form a playpen for James. We weren't particularly drawn to the whole crating business, but really, his pen has served the exact same purpose of a crate...just a bit bigger. It's useful for all the purposes you mentioned. He's only ever had two or three accidents in his pen and that has been when he's been a touch off colour and really couldn't hold his bowels so it helped very much in toilet training. If he was being frustrating and not going outside at a time when I was quite sure he would need to go any moment, he was put in his pen until he barked to let me know he was ready, thus preventing unneccesary accidents around the house. He's put in there to sleep to prevent him wandering around the house at night. And it's a safe place to confine him at times when I didn't want him in the way and underfoot.

All in all, a very useful tool.

[Red Fox]

I was thinking of crate training my boy so he knows to go outside when he wants to wee.

Having looked at several crates in a pet supply store and online, I've noticed that a crate is pretty much a cage. I just wanted to ask what the purpose of the crate is. Is it so the pup has a place where he feels secure? Is it so he doesn't run around the house? Is it so he's confined to one area and won't answer the call of nature in such a confined space?

Yes. Practical reasons for using a crate are toilet training, confining puppy to a safe, secure place when necessary (ie when you can't supervise, when there are children/strangers in the house, travelling, vets, shows, trials, etc), teaching your pup to relax...

In short:

I was thinking that if it's only to limit his movement in he house, I could just place him on a coffee table (with a larger surface area than a crate) because he never jumps off. Would this be a legitimate alternate

No! That would be extremely dangerous. Puppy could easily jump off and injure himself. If he doesn't now he will soon. Plus it wont contain him, not will he feel secure.

or is a crate necessary?

Well no not necessary, many people do without them but they make life a LOT easier.

If all you are wanting to do is confine puppy to a certain area of the house you could use baby gates or a pen too.

[Jacquiboss&scoop]

HI

For most people crates work this way

the Crate is the dogs den , you put him there to sleep or time out , he goes there himself to sleep or time out

Comfy blankies and toys , chews or bones even dinner can go into his crate to help him settle and give him something to do

Your puppy/ dog is safe in his crate he cannot fall , get trapped , chew power cables , be underfoot in the kitchen ect

most pups will whine or bark when they need to go to the loo , pick up pup and carry him to where you want him to go first as he gets older he will hold until he gets outside

Place the crate out of the way but where pup can see what is going on some like it in the family or bedroom , whatever works best for you and puppy

the door should be left open to allow him to come and go when he does not need to be confined It is HIS space so teach Kids and adults to respect that small space as his ,

There is a DVD called crate games , this is a good introduction for puppy to crate

[Red Fox]

Thanks for the replies. I've actually tried to get him to jump off the table. The coffee table is pretty low, about 25cm and he's about 45cm on all fours, so it's funny when an excited ball of fur is reluctant to jump down from that height even with the lure of a treat. Strangely though, I raised him in a puppy playpen around 35-40cm high and he learned to jump over that.

He's probably scared to jump down. Thats not unusual for a puppy..

When he's inside the house and I can't him give my full attention, I put him on the table and he gives an indication when he wants to do his business outside so I guess he's partially learned. But I haven't tried it at night yet. I'm concerned about the restrictive nature of the crate, it looks too confined being able to only take a 3-4 steps forward and back; and the dog behind bars looks quite sad.

A crate is only a cage if you try to humanise it. To a dog a crate (if use properly) is a den, a safe place to go, rather like a kennel. Dog tend to feel secure in a small enclosed area (den).

I have a couple more questions about the crate:

1. Normally, how do they give the signal on when they want to go outside?

Same as a pen, he will bark, cry, become restless, scratch at the door.. each dog is different but you will know.

2. When they give the signal, is there enough time to - unlock crate, get them out, put lead on them, run them out the door?

Depends on how quick you are If you have the leash on top of the crate and are keeping your ears open then you should be fine. With a pup you should be taking them out every hour or two to toilet anyway.

3. Should it be like a home to them (should it have their toys)?

Yes. But not ALL their toys - just one or two favourites.

4. Is it best to place the crate in the bedroom or another part of the house?

Depends on what you want to use it for. Best to put it in an area where you can see it and puppy can see out, though having it in the bedroom at night is fine if thats where you want the puppy to sleep. (makes night time toilet trips easier too.)

[W Sibs]

I was never a strong believer in crate training but my little guy, Charlie, loves his crate and trained me to crate train him It's very handy as in when he got sick, he will use his crate as his sickbed and he goes in there when he needs to chill or rest. Also, he knows he isn't allowed to eat his bones inside the house, but if he eats it in his crate, then it's ok.

Because of him, I crate train Emmy. She doesn't mind her crate and won't stress if I lock her in there.. which is handy when she went to the vet to get desexed, she has to sit in the crate and from what I was told.. she was a total angel being all chill and relaxed in there.

It comes very handy when we go on outings or camping... I can put my two in their crate with a treat or toy, and they are happy to be in there. It's a gives me piece of mind that I know they are safe in there, while I'm busy doing other things.

1. Normally, how do they give the signal on when they want to go outside?

I rarely have the crate door locked... but if I do, if they want to go out to go to the toilet.. Emmy just tap on the door and wait.

2. When they give the signal, is there enough time to - unlock crate, get them out, put lead on them, run them out the door?

Yeah. I don't know how your pup is, but Emmy runs to the backyard and Charlie holds it in till he gets outside.. i know he is busting if he runs to the backyard.

3. Should it be like a home to them (should it have their toys)?

Emmy has her bones and her toys in her crate... if she was a human, her room will be very very messy. She likes digging her bed, so the blanket is always messing and scrunched up. Her toys are all over the crate (she has a big crate because she likes space).

4. Is it best to place the crate in the bedroom or another part of the house?

Crates moves from the living room to the bedroom nearly every single night and morning... if we go camping or have outing, it comes along with us too.

Personally, I will never lock my dog in a crate for more than 2 or 3 hours at a time...

Edited July 30, 2010 by CW EW

[koalathebear]

A lot of people more knowledgeable than I am can give you the details about crates etc and there's heaps of info around.

For my part, my OH and I were a bit dubious about crates when we first read about them. For us, crate seemed to be a euphemism for what was basically a cage and it DID look kind of cruel. There are some dogs that do not take well to a crate and actually injure themselves, but for us, a crate has been wonderful. Elbie's crate door is open all day - just closed at night when he's sleeping and he loves it. It has a big cushion, blankets and toys. We have draped a blanket around it so it's his comfy little den. He goes in there to sunbake during the afternoon and he goes in there to hide whenever scary things are about like the vacuum cleaner

If we're working on things that might be dangerous to him e.g. putting furniture together, unpacking boxes etc he goes into his crate so that he can be near us but safe. If we're only going out for short periods of time, we put him in his crate because it's comfy and he sleeps while we're out. At night, Elbie trots into his crate of his own volition in preparation for bed and when he's pissed off at us, he'll also go and sulk in his crate

[Genabee]

I too was a bit unsure about the whole crate thing... they did look a bit cage like!

Our first dog never had one and it wasn't until we were preparing for Genevieve and I did all this reading and every thing was crate this crate that... My husband (who hadn't had a dog before) was reading everything he could get his hands on, doing it all by the book so to speak - and told me we 'had' to have a crate.

So we compromised and went for the soft crate. I wouldn't advise this for a puppy!! She can escape out of it easily and she has chewed and dug it up! She does love it though. It has been so handy for us.

It moves around the house with us, whatever room we are in generally. She hangs out in there off her own accord and she understands it is 'her room'. We rarely zip her up in it unless we need her to be out of the way for some specific reason. She sleeps in the laundry at night, so I leave it unzipped for her.

I would definitely recommend them and I will be using one for my next pooch ( and probably the more cage looking one I was put off by this time!!!)

[Nekhbet]

I was thinking that if it's only to limit his movement in he house, I could just place him on a coffee table (with a larger surface area than a crate) because he never jumps off.

I thought it was a wind up. The point of a crate is to safely contain your dog, as you have seen he can get out of a playpen. YOu need to teach your dog this is his 'bedroom' and it's super fun to be in there. Give him treats, his bed and a toy to keep him happy, you can even feed meals in there to reinforce the comfort factor. Just make sure you are around to hear when he needs to go to the toilet otherwise he will be forced to toilet in his crate.

You also should NOT be encouraging young dogs to jump off anything unless you have a nice savings account full of money to fix broken bones or injured joints.

[Parkeyre]

[TsarsMum]

i really wonder if this person is here to stir the pot as this must be the most rediculous thing i have ever read. what dog is not going to jump off the coffee table. and who would leave the dog there are a safe place.

common sence is needed.

[cavNrott]

I was thinking that if it's only to limit his movement in he house, I could just place him on a coffee table (with a larger surface area than a crate) because he never jumps off. Would this be a legitimate alternate or is a crate necessary?

Surely you jest A crate verses a coffee table for puppy safety? You think a puppy won't jump from a coffee table?

I'd really like to know how you arrived at the conclusion that putting a puppy on top of a coffee table is a safe method of confinement for any dog. It's certainly a very ahhh...novel idea if you are prepared to take risk of joint injury and/or fractured bones. Gotta say I've never heard of this one before.

Edited July 30, 2010 by cavNrott

[Prinsesse]

i wouldn't pup my pup in a crate! I had a playpen that took up most of my room and she slept there at night. She would scratch at the sides when she wanted to do business. It was the best thing out because my room is up stairs (spiral) and i was so afraid of her falling through the bars. These can be purchased online for around $80.00. I wouldn't bother with the smaller ones (only cot size) to me, that would be the same as a crate.

[MsKatie]

I have 2 crates in our bedroom for our dogs - the kepie has one in the walk in robe because she used to go and tuck herself in there at night anyway - the bloodhound has his under the window - because it's hugs and that was the only place it would fit! The kelpie tucks herself in when I go to bed at night - the hound comes in with OH - they only use them at night and they have been the best thing for us - we know they are safe and not wandering and they will whine to wake us if they need to go out

[Red Fox]

i wouldn't pup my pup in a crate! I had a playpen that took up most of my room and she slept there at night. She would scratch at the sides when she wanted to do business. It was the best thing out because my room is up stairs (spiral) and i was so afraid of her falling through the bars. These can be purchased online for around $80.00. I wouldn't bother with the smaller ones (only cot size) to me, that would be the same as a crate.

Why not? If your dog ever has to go to the vet what do you think they will use? Or if you ever need to travel, will you take the whole pen with you? How will contain your dog safely if you decide to trial her in obedience or dog sports? Most dogs love their crates because they are small, cosy and secure. They can be easily transported so that the dog always has it's "home" no matter where you go. A big open space cannot offer that..

There is nothing wrong with using a pen. They can be very useful, particularly if your small puppy must be left alone for a few hours. However they do not offer the safety or the convenience of a crate. Dogs are not humans, they do not see a crate as a "cage" but rather a safe place which is theirs, a den. You will only disadvantage both yourself and your dog by "humanising" things.