Accidental Bite?

[Aussienot]

Can a dog bite by mistake? Dogs can be very precise with their teeth, is every bite intentional?

I was training with Cody the German Shepherd this morning, and was rewarding him with a bit of tugging. He lept up, grabbed the toy, but also bit my hand. Big long toy, small hand. He had to try hard if his intention was to bite skin rather than the toy. A small skin puncture, but I think he damaged some nerves.

Cody is 11 months old, high drive and energetic. He is very people friendly and has always accepted my leadership. An intentional bite would be completely out of character for him.

I stopped training and crated him, and am thinking it over. Would be interested in other people's responses. Was it an accident in play, or a dog testing his boundaries?

Edited July 28, 2010 by Aussienot

[Cosmolo]

2 of my dogs have got my hand instead of a tug before and while it hurt like nothing else, i never believed it was intentional. You know your dog- if its completely out of character i would say accident- if it happens repeatedly or you notice other behavioural changes, you can pay a bit more attention.

What did he do when he did it? One of mine let go the moment he realised it was hand not toy and then looked horrified. The other stopped immediately too- but that could have been because i dropped to the ground swearing and clutching my hand!!

[persephone]

Of COURSE they make mistakes - they are animals, they misjudge, they get excited, they zig when they should zag!

[Tassie]

2 of my dogs have got my hand instead of a tug before and while it hurt like nothing else, i never believed it was intentional. You know your dog- if its completely out of character i would say accident- if it happens repeatedly or you notice other behavioural changes, you can pay a bit more attention.

What did he do when he did it? One of mine let go the moment he realised it was hand not toy and then looked horrified. The other stopped immediately too- but that could have been because i dropped to the ground swearing and clutching my hand!!

+1 My 8.5 year old agility BC will occasionally get way too excited when she's grabbing for the tug and nail me instead - but it's certainly accidental - and the game stops immediately - but briefly - and I notice she's a bit more careful when it resumes.

If it helps, I'm sure I've seen it happen to Susan Garrett on one of her dvd's - probably the 2x2 weave one - ISTM it's just one of the risks of getting a dog seriously tugging. Equally, they need to know they need to be a bit more careful in future.

[sheena]

My girl always wants the bit of the tug that I am holding in my hand even though the toy might be really long. I am sure she means no mallice, but it's annoying. When I give her treats, she is very gentle.

[Aussienot]

What did he do when he did it?

He was triumphantly trying to kill the toy, but did notice me grabbing my hand with some bad language, and he realised he'd screwed up so dropped it and came to me .

[Tassie]

What did he do when he did it?

He was triumphantly trying to kill the toy, but did notice me grabbing my hand with some bad language, and he realised he'd screwed up so dropped it and came to me .

That sounds good.

[ness]

Oh yes accidental bites are very common - especially the more serious they are into the game.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: It is pretty common for dogs to accidently bite your hand, almost as common for them to bite your hand deliberatly too. There are a lot of reasons why both happen too: -

Some reasons for Accidental Bites

Poor tug handling/presentation by handler (most common)

Tug too small or too large (needs to be the correct size so dog learns to target)

Handler not teaching dog that teeth on skin ends game (after driove development has commenced)

Dog is tired and makes genuine error. (tug game went on too long)

Some reasons for Deliberate bites

It works (dog wins or has won before)

Tug game has gone on too long or too much repetition (dog is driven to tug but tired also so bites to end the game)

Dog mouths handler at other times (so thinks it may work here too)

Dog may be showing Rank or Dominance (this is normally displayed as a dog that bites your arm, nit your hand instead of the tug)

[Nekhbet]

dont let him run off with the toy.

Accidents happen, if one of mine grab my hand instead they hear AHHH and drop it. They learn to be more careful and that it is indeed a hand and not part of hte toy dont be angry accidents happen sometimes when you put your hand near a contacting dogs mouth.

As K9 has said look at what toy you're using and how you present it. Some people pull the tug away from the dog and hence the dog takes the least moving part which will be close to your hand. Present it well and evenly and you will find less accidents.

[Ravyk]

My girl always wants the bit of the tug that I am holding in my hand even though the toy might be really long. I am sure she means no mallice, but it's annoying. When I give her treats, she is very gentle.

Mine does this too! It is so damn annoying!

[Nekhbet]

if you guys have that problem hold the toy at both ends and shove the middle into the dogs mouth. Just practice like that for a while. If you can make the centre a different colour or wrap some wool around it to make it like a 'target' that can help too so the dog knows how to focus. Dogs that are taught onto sleeves are also taught to target for the best bite, the worst dogs are dirty biters that take a darn chomp anywhere or totally miss sleeve and get shoulder/fingers. They can be taught you just need to work on it

[Nevafollo]

I was showing mums pug on the weekend and had a frankfurt in my hand and he jumped up trying to grab it and had a chomp on my finger instead...oops, it hurt like hell considering hes a little dude!

[angelsun]

That was your fault, not the dogs.....rewarding in this method often results in pinches or bites. Anytime I've been nipped (which has happened a handful of times over the years) it was my fault for presenting a reward incorrectly or not pre training the dog to accept the reward in a method that would remove an accident like this from occuring.

(goes for baiting show dogs as well as high energy rewards for other training sessions and also simple 'roll around the floor and wrestle' sort of play)

[Skitch]

My elderly dog has grabbed toys instead of my hand many times.. I never really thought there was any malicious intent behind it, it just seemed that she'd accidentally overshot her grab while we were playing! She's always been quick to rush over when she's got my hand and I jump back swearing... so going by what you've described I think Cody just made a mistake! I think you did the right thing in the situation (stopped playing straight away) as this behaviour is definitely best not encouraged, even if it is accidental.

[Erny]

What Steve (K9 Pro) said.

Through the steps of his training, I have taught Mandela so that even when he's screeching up to me from a stay release to receive his tug reward, he'll stop dead if he sees my hands are in the way, no matter how much I repeat the word that says he can have the tug, and try to get him to take it. If he accidentally lands a tooth on the skin of any part of my hand, I see and feel his hesitation to bite on the tug.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Erny

[Staranais]

Would be interested in other people's responses. Was it an accident in play, or a dog testing his boundaries?

Happens to us reasonably regularly. My girl tries hard to avoid it since I give NRM and stop game immediately if she does so. But I don't want to get too strict on her in case it inhibits her & kills drive. So sometimes it just happens. Like the others, I do not believe there is malicious intent.

Bigger tug would help, perhaps? & make sure you are holding it still when he goes to bite it, and holding it square to the dog too, so he can strike it precisely.

[emery]

i jave two bruised fingers and a dented ring from playing tug with my pup yesterday thankfully she let go very quicklty but it smarted for awhile oops

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: Also just like to add that, no matter how much experience one has at playing tug with their dog, nips and bites do occur from time to time, it is par for the course.

I use gloves a lot now, we even have been working with a designer to make very tough yet flexible gloves for this work that go down to small mans and womans hand sizes and still provide good protection.

Were just waiting for these to arrive now.

[Erny]

I use gloves a lot now, we even have been working with a designer to make very tough yet flexible gloves for this work that go down to small mans and womans hand sizes and still provide good protection.

Were just waiting for these to arrive now.

Funny you should mention that, Steve.

When my boy was just a pup, and learning, I copped the needle sharp teeth (accidental) bites/knocks at the beginning, whilst I was building drive. The backs of my hands were a disaster area, with all the marks, skin breaks etc. and I did search around for suitable gloves. I'd like driving type gloves - you know, the type that are fingerless and with a gap in the back of the hand, except I'd like them reversed so that the palm is exposed and the back of the hand protected. Either that, or soft flexible palm with slightly heavier protection for the back of the hands.

I don't need it so much for my boy any more, but I'm always working with untrained dogs, helping people to get them trained, which means I still tend to suffer the knocks that come with dogs who are just learning.

So I will be very interested in the gloves you are designing, and I'd suggest I'm going to be a very likely customer for these .

Edited July 30, 2010 by Erny