Shy Dogs

[vickirae]

I'm a bit new to forums and this is first time I've posted one, so please bare with me.

I need some advice on two dogs I have recently purchased. two cocker spaniels female 18mths and male nearly 2. as it turns out I think these dogs have had very little human interaction. Now I was told that the female was a bit shy and the male had quite a playful personality, and that they had no experience with small children. I have had these dogs for nearly a month and although they have coped with my children they still just run away from me all the time. now they are fine once I have a hold of them I can do anything with them (groom etc) but won't willingly come to me ( the only one they seem to let get close enough to catch them is my 3yr old daughter). I've not had previous experience with overly shy dogs. the funny thing is when I come home they are really excited to see me, (wagging tails, jumping around), but if I try to pat them they run.

I have had progress with lead trainging as they had had none. We took them to the beach and they loved it.

The male will come and take treats from my hand, but will take off if my hand moves toward him. the female won't take any food from anyone.

It has as I say been only a month, I just thought I would have seen better progress from them, or am I expecting too much?

Any advice would be appreciated.

thank you

[Jacquiboss&scoop]

HI Vikirae

Do you know the background on the dogs ? were they used for breeding before you got them ?

It does sound like a lack of socialisation , if they have been with you for a month now you should be starting to see their personalities come out and if you are the one that has been providing dinner , walks ect they should have started to come to you by now if raised in a normal household.

I would suggest that you make the investment of a behaviour specialist pay a visit to you and asses the dogs to help you start forming a bond with them do they just shy away or do they warn you off ?

[Kavik]

I agree that a behaviourist would be a good idea.

An idea to help get them to come to you - only feed from your hand for now. Really yummy good stuff (cooked chicken often works well). No meals from bowls for a while.

[Nekhbet]

separate the two of them and keep them on lead. Dont give them an opportunity to 1) pack up on you together and 2) learn to keep running. If you want them to bond to you spend more one on one time and also control the environment. You are giving them opportunities to still decide what to do and exhibit old unwanted behaviours, as well as not allowing you the chance to retrain them to behave the way you want.

As for treats, they only get them WHILE you are giving them contact, not after. And you break off the contact first, not them. So pat TREAT pat, get up and ignore dog. If they skuttle about or run off, totally ignore the behaviour and I mean dont even look at them.

[vickirae]

thank you for all your quick repies

the dogs have come from a breeder but neither of them have bred yet as only just old enough to do so. the breeder has other dogs and was just getting out of breeder cockers. they were on property out of town, quite a long distance from me and I met her halfway so didn't see the dogs in their home environment.

the dogs just shy away no warnings or any sort of aggression, they even at times follow me around when I'm doing things outside and want to be near me but if I turn toward them they shy away unless they're unable to get away quickly and then they'll accept a pat etc. ( sounds a bit weird to me!!)

I will be taking them to my local dog training club I just wanted to let them settle a bit first.

I am going to try your suggestions of separating them to help with bonding and I was just reading pinned forum on triangle of temptation which says works with shy dogs.

thank you

[bedazzledx2]

Agree and I would add to this that you will make faster progress if you can make all their food coming from your hands....no food in a bowl for a while. Portion up their food and teach them lots of easy tricks. Come to the hand, get a piece of food, sit, get a piece of food, puppy push ups, touch a target (lid or hand) etc. If you can get someone else to help that would be great. How old are your kids? Swap the dogs and kids (or helper around so that they are associating it with interaction with different people.

In other words they have to interact and come to you for all their food...not just once a day in a bowl. This doesn't have to go on forever but its a fast shortcut to good interaction and makes recalling games easier. I feed BARF so I portion up the wet food in small containers and thats the jackpot for a harder behaviour. Whatever I'm training at the time.

separate the two of them and keep them on lead. Dont give them an opportunity to 1) pack up on you together and 2) learn to keep running. If you want them to bond to you spend more one on one time and also control the environment. You are giving them opportunities to still decide what to do and exhibit old unwanted behaviours, as well as not allowing you the chance to retrain them to behave the way you want.

As for treats, they only get them WHILE you are giving them contact, not after. And you break off the contact first, not them. So pat TREAT pat, get up and ignore dog. If they skuttle about or run off, totally ignore the behaviour and I mean dont even look at them.

[conztruct]

Some really good advice here that works. I've done a few of these things to address a problem with my boy.

He's a bit timid around people - we've been showing for quite a while and he has some good and bad days with it but the tips especially with the food rewards and training can help build a relationship with you and your dogs. Also, I used to get my friends (who my dog didn't know) to do it as well when they came over - it's a slow process especially when the dog is older but it does work.

He's probably at a manageable stage I'd say at the moment but we keep perservering and the little improvements happen all the time. My dog was never fearful of me though - it's a bit frustrating really when he's timid out and about but in the backyard or with people he knows he's probably more on the boisterous side.....LOL.

It's not meant to be easy but can be overcome with a bit of work. I'd be concerned and seek a behaviourists assistance if there are any signs of aggression - fortunately for me this wasn't a problem.

[Aidan]

Shy behaviours can be learned, even if the dogs are happy to see you (feel happy on seeing you).

Search YouTube for "target training". It can work wonders with shy dogs, you teach them to touch something with their nose for reward. Then you have a means of having them "offer" to come to you, touch you etc You aren't forcing them to do anything, they are doing it willingly.

[megan_]

I'd see a good behaviourist. In the meantime, I would give them all the space that they need, feed them and then leave them alone. This may sound cruel but it is the kindest thing and they will come to you in time. This is the method that I used with my ex-puppy farm breeding bitch (who spend day 1 in her crate, to afraid to even eat!). I was told it by a rescuer who has helped hundreds of ex-breeding dogs that have been kept in less than ideal situations. Within a month (which may seem like a long time but isn't in the scheme of things) Lucy would come and sit with me on her own.

Once I got the the stage of my dog being able to actually come to me and be comfortable around me, I consulted a behaviourist. Best money I have spent. Ever.

I personally wouldn't be taking a very fearful dog to a club just yet - way to much crowding and excitement. Just let them take their own time....

ETA: Behaviourists aren't just for aggressive dogs. I can't stress that enough! My girl just froze when she was scared, but her quality of life is sooooooo much better now that we both got professional help.

Edited July 30, 2010 by megan_

[vickirae]

Quick update

I am already getting dramatic improvements in these dogs over the last few days using suggestions posted here. They are even starting to approach without me having to have treats, happy to receive a pat and some attention.

Thanks Nekhbet the advice of totally ignoring the behaviour really seems to have been the key.

[Nekhbet]

yup most of it is learned attention behaviour. Keep going the way you're going and you will be fine. If having them together too much brings back the behaviour separate them off a little until the idea sticks. They sound like they were probably kennel dogs.