Touchy Subject But Need Advice Or Help.

[Sandra777]

So can they touch it at all?

This is a very sad situation

The poor pup obviously has not had a good start to what will probably be a very short life

I don't believe these sort or problems can be diagnosed or solved over the internet.

No one here has seen the pups actual behaviour and although PTS may well be the best option, wouldn't it be best to get the opinion of a professional who can see the pup in person and see how it interacts etc

I believe they should get a behaviourist or experienced trainer to assess the pup and make a decision based on this.

It is only fair to the pup to at least give it one last chance.

In a home with no small kids, yes that would be the best option, but it is biting and growling if they go near it.....i wouldnt risk my toddler for one day with a dog like that let alone the time it takes for a trainer or behaviorist to assess it and work with it. It needs to either go to a home where someone dedicated will try to rehab it or it needs to be PTS.

She said it will sometimes let her touch it but other times it bites. It also has a large lump (?) on its head. Ive told her repeatedly to take it to the vet, dont know if she has or not.

And I just got a reply from her regarding PTS and she wont do it. She is going to try to give it away......*shakes head*.....

Its so frustrating to try to educate someone who wont listen.

Crap. So she is willing to pass on an aggressive dog? Just the same ethics as the breeder who dumped it on her.

Can you offer to take it to be PTS instead?

Yeah I should hey......wonder how much it will cost to transport it up to QLD tho....she is down near Sydney and Im in Brissy. Any ideas?

I think it cost about $150 to fly Elliott up from Canberra last year....shouldnt be much more than that should it? Im only asking because Im in the middle of moving and were already strapped with moving costs....ugh i hate being so povo!

Please don't beat yourself up because you can't afford to get rid of a problem that's not yours in the first place! You're doing all you can and sometimes there's just no more that can be done I agree with MRB and Greyt, a behavioural assessment needs to be done stat and if she is in Sydney then Steve from K9-Pro would be the perfect choice I think.

In addition to this - even if you could easily afford to fly the pup to you - think how terrified and stressed the poor pup would be shoved in a crate and put in a plane.

[Danielle]

Could the large lump on the puppy's head have anything to do with how it is acting.... taking it to the vet would be the best wouldn't it.?

Yeah I wondered that myself....ive told her to take it to the vet asap but im not sure if she is going to. I see a very sad future for this little pup. God i wish i was in a position to help it.

[Animal House]

So can they touch it at all?

This is a very sad situation

The poor pup obviously has not had a good start to what will probably be a very short life

I don't believe these sort or problems can be diagnosed or solved over the internet.

No one here has seen the pups actual behaviour and although PTS may well be the best option, wouldn't it be best to get the opinion of a professional who can see the pup in person and see how it interacts etc

I believe they should get a behaviourist or experienced trainer to assess the pup and make a decision based on this.

It is only fair to the pup to at least give it one last chance.

In a home with no small kids, yes that would be the best option, but it is biting and growling if they go near it.....i wouldnt risk my toddler for one day with a dog like that let alone the time it takes for a trainer or behaviorist to assess it and work with it. It needs to either go to a home where someone dedicated will try to rehab it or it needs to be PTS.

She said it will sometimes let her touch it but other times it bites. It also has a large lump (?) on its head. Ive told her repeatedly to take it to the vet, dont know if she has or not.

And I just got a reply from her regarding PTS and she wont do it. She is going to try to give it away......*shakes head*.....

Its so frustrating to try to educate someone who wont listen.

Crap. So she is willing to pass on an aggressive dog? Just the same ethics as the breeder who dumped it on her.

Can you offer to take it to be PTS instead?

Yeah I should hey......wonder how much it will cost to transport it up to QLD tho....she is down near Sydney and Im in Brissy. Any ideas?

I think it cost about $150 to fly Elliott up from Canberra last year....shouldnt be much more than that should it? Im only asking because Im in the middle of moving and were already strapped with moving costs....ugh i hate being so povo!

Sorry Danielle, I thought you were nearby. My mistake.

Totally unreasonable to try to fly an aggressive/scared pup up to you at your cost anyway.

Would she hand it over to 'rescue' and they could PTS (possibly without her knowing if that would cause a problem?) Just assuming it is better than having her try and give the dog away.

[jesomil]

I dont see any indictations at all that this pup needs to be PTS. We have no idea what is going on.

The pup could have been terrified by the car trip and then hid under the car. It could have been cornered and forced into snapping. If the snapping worked the first time, it would do it again. It could be a case of a scared pup and very inexperienced people bringing out an aggressive behaviour. They havent even had it all that long.

It needs to be out of that situation asap so the behaviour can be helped.

If I was closer, I would drive over there immediately and get the pup. It needs to be handled by an experienced person, assessed for temp and working ability and then either trained or PTS. It may not be all that much of a big deal.

[Cheyd]

I have been following this thread, poor pup hope it gets help soon

Would a call to her local shire/ranger help? If she explained that the pup had been essentially dumped on her and is aggressive, they might be able to send someone to collect it. Possibly a rescue might be able to assess the pup at the pound

Just my 2cents, as I have no experience in this situation

Edited July 28, 2010 by Hollys mummy

[Magstar]

Do you know why she would not be willing to take it to the vet?

[kelpiegirl10]

The lump on its head could quite possibly be a major contributer to the aggressive behaviour, A trip to the vets could be all it takes to change the pups attitude, that lump could be causing quite alot of pain for it causing it to bite and growl in hope that the lump doesnt get touched causing more pain.

Yes its not safe to have a biting pup around young children however its wrong to be suggesting putting the pup to sleep rather than finding someone who is willing to give the youngster a chance at a better life, im sure the pup is at no fault of its own with a little rehab & tlc it could be a totally different dog.

EVERYBODY DESERVES A SECOND CHANCE!!

[minxy]

If she has only had the dog for a few days isnt there a chance that it is just scared in its new surroundings and needs some time to settle in?

Everyone seems to be throwing the towel in a little too soon

Agreed. Shocked that the immediate response seems to be PTS.

[dee lee]

resuce orgs will not take on a HA dog, but more importantly by keeping this dog with a child you can be not only endangering the child physically but also mentally scarring it for life. i live with a phobia and wouldn't wish it on anyone. it doesn't take much to give children serious fears and phobias and the longer this pup lives with a child the more likely it is that some damage will be done.

I will second this.

I tried for two years to help my DA dog because my heart broke at the thought of PTS.

I now deeply regret not finding the strength earlier as my daughter developed a phobia of dogs after continuously witnessing our dog's behaviour.

She will almost run onto the road if we walk past a dog that barks. Even if her own beloved dog (that she knows to be completely safe) barks she still shakes and covers her ears.

If the owner cannot handle the thought of pts (and I can understand this) she does need to be made aware of that she will need to remove the pup form her home asap for her child's sake.

[casowner]

The lump on its head could quite possibly be a major contributer to the aggressive behaviour, A trip to the vets could be all it takes to change the pups attitude, that lump could be causing quite alot of pain for it causing it to bite and growl in hope that the lump doesnt get touched causing more pain.

Yes its not safe to have a biting pup around young children however its wrong to be suggesting putting the pup to sleep rather than finding someone who is willing to give the youngster a chance at a better life, im sure the pup is at no fault of its own with a little rehab & tlc it could be a totally different dog.

EVERYBODY DESERVES A SECOND CHANCE!!

I'm sorry kelpiegirl10, I mean no disrespect but I do not agree with that statement. There are many situations where I do not believe that animals deserve a second chance, it may or not be the dogs fault that their first chance at life was bad but there are certainly situations that do not warrant second chances. No matter how much we want to help animals, or how much we love them rehabilitation for some issues just doesn't work unless you are highly experienced or knowledgable.

While I believe that condemning a dog to be PTS with what has been written seems harsh (and may be premature) we are talking about a fear reactive, young working dog that the breeder of the dog has even wiped their own hands of. Is it the dogs fault - no, can the dog be rehabilitated - possibly in the right home/situation. The horrid reality is that the right home for this dog would be very difficult to find and the one that suffers in the meantime is the animal. living a life based in a fearful state is not something that I would be comfortable with, there comes a time where quality of life is more important than life itself. I love my animals, they are my world and most of them are rescues but I have to consider what is best for them, not for me when I make important decisions and if I have to make a difficult one then I have to live with it.

[Bjelkier]

The lump on its head could quite possibly be a major contributer to the aggressive behaviour, A trip to the vets could be all it takes to change the pups attitude, that lump could be causing quite alot of pain for it causing it to bite and growl in hope that the lump doesnt get touched causing more pain.

Yes its not safe to have a biting pup around young children however its wrong to be suggesting putting the pup to sleep rather than finding someone who is willing to give the youngster a chance at a better life, im sure the pup is at no fault of its own with a little rehab & tlc it could be a totally different dog.

EVERYBODY DESERVES A SECOND CHANCE!!

I'm sorry kelpiegirl10, I mean no disrespect but I do not agree with that statement. There are many situations where I do not believe that animals deserve a second chance, it may or not be the dogs fault that their first chance at life was bad but there are certainly situations that do not warrant second chances. No matter how much we want to help animals, or how much we love them rehabilitation for some issues just doesn't work unless you are highly experienced or knowledgable.

While I believe that condemning a dog to be PTS with what has been written seems harsh (and may be premature) we are talking about a fear reactive, young working dog that the breeder of the dog has even wiped their own hands of. Is it the dogs fault - no, can the dog be rehabilitated - possibly in the right home/situation. The horrid reality is that the right home for this dog would be very difficult to find and the one that suffers in the meantime is the animal. living a life based in a fearful state is not something that I would be comfortable with, there comes a time where quality of life is more important than life itself. I love my animals, they are my world and most of them are rescues but I have to consider what is best for them, not for me when I make important decisions and if I have to make a difficult one then I have to live with it.

+1

[Starkehre]

The lump on its head could quite possibly be a major contributer to the aggressive behaviour, A trip to the vets could be all it takes to change the pups attitude, that lump could be causing quite alot of pain for it causing it to bite and growl in hope that the lump doesnt get touched causing more pain.

Yes its not safe to have a biting pup around young children however its wrong to be suggesting putting the pup to sleep rather than finding someone who is willing to give the youngster a chance at a better life, im sure the pup is at no fault of its own with a little rehab & tlc it could be a totally different dog.

EVERYBODY DESERVES A SECOND CHANCE!!

I'm sorry kelpiegirl10, I mean no disrespect but I do not agree with that statement. There are many situations where I do not believe that animals deserve a second chance, it may or not be the dogs fault that their first chance at life was bad but there are certainly situations that do not warrant second chances. No matter how much we want to help animals, or how much we love them rehabilitation for some issues just doesn't work unless you are highly experienced or knowledgable.

While I believe that condemning a dog to be PTS with what has been written seems harsh (and may be premature) we are talking about a fear reactive, young working dog that the breeder of the dog has even wiped their own hands of. Is it the dogs fault - no, can the dog be rehabilitated - possibly in the right home/situation. The horrid reality is that the right home for this dog would be very difficult to find and the one that suffers in the meantime is the animal. living a life based in a fearful state is not something that I would be comfortable with, there comes a time where quality of life is more important than life itself. I love my animals, they are my world and most of them are rescues but I have to consider what is best for them, not for me when I make important decisions and if I have to make a difficult one then I have to live with it.

+1

+2

[Parkeyre]

If this pup is really as terrified, agressive and bad as it is sounding out to be, I think it should be put down.

An agressive pup is one thing, an agressive pup quickly grows into an agressive dog if not properly managed.

5months old and not been socialised, biting people and growling like that; doesn't look good.

[poodlefan]

I dont see any indictations at all that this pup needs to be PTS. We have no idea what is going on.

The pup could have been terrified by the car trip and then hid under the car. It could have been cornered and forced into snapping. If the snapping worked the first time, it would do it again. It could be a case of a scared pup and very inexperienced people bringing out an aggressive behaviour. They havent even had it all that long.

It needs to be out of that situation asap so the behaviour can be helped.

If I was closer, I would drive over there immediately and get the pup. It needs to be handled by an experienced person, assessed for temp and working ability and then either trained or PTS. It may not be all that much of a big deal.

1. The pup is biting, not snapping. It is of little comfort when your 4 year old child undergoes facial reconstruction that the pup only bit because it was scared. ALL bites have the same effect, regardless of what motivates them

2. Many posters (myself included) recommended a behavioural assessment to determine chances for rehabilitation. If the current owner, can't or won't pay and rescue won't take the pup, then IMO the only responsible option is PTS.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Dogs that have been injured in car accidents can be extremely aggressive even though you're trying to help.

The lump on this dog's head may have something to do with its behaviour. Vet then behaviourist. Really.

I don't like thinking that the "breeder" may have clubbed the dog to get it in the car/crate. Worth discussing (with the vet) whether it should be reported to RSPCA also.

[kelpiegirl10]

The lump on its head could quite possibly be a major contributer to the aggressive behaviour, A trip to the vets could be all it takes to change the pups attitude, that lump could be causing quite alot of pain for it causing it to bite and growl in hope that the lump doesnt get touched causing more pain.

Yes its not safe to have a biting pup around young children however its wrong to be suggesting putting the pup to sleep rather than finding someone who is willing to give the youngster a chance at a better life, im sure the pup is at no fault of its own with a little rehab & tlc it could be a totally different dog.

EVERYBODY DESERVES A SECOND CHANCE!!

I'm sorry kelpiegirl10, I mean no disrespect but I do not agree with that statement. There are many situations where I do not believe that animals deserve a second chance, it may or not be the dogs fault that their first chance at life was bad but there are certainly situations that do not warrant second chances. No matter how much we want to help animals, or how much we love them rehabilitation for some issues just doesn't work unless you are highly experienced or knowledgable.

While I believe that condemning a dog to be PTS with what has been written seems harsh (and may be premature) we are talking about a fear reactive, young working dog that the breeder of the dog has even wiped their own hands of. Is it the dogs fault - no, can the dog be rehabilitated - possibly in the right home/situation. The horrid reality is that the right home for this dog would be very difficult to find and the one that suffers in the meantime is the animal. living a life based in a fearful state is not something that I would be comfortable with, there comes a time where quality of life is more important than life itself. I love my animals, they are my world and most of them are rescues but I have to consider what is best for them, not for me when I make important decisions and if I have to make a difficult one then I have to live with it.

+1

casowner - yes i do agree there are some cases which second chances do not apply. I can see where your coming from and i agree however in this case i think there is no solid evidence about the pup, the cause for the fear is unknown. how does anyone know if the previous person was the acctual breeder of the pup? obviously the main concern for the pup is fear biting which can be overcome, all im tryin to say is the option of PTS seems senseless when there are plenty of other options out there(just my opinion, not trying to be rude).

[TsarsMum]

i see it as this my child or the dog and i know who wins every time

i have seen way too many people give chances to dogs who should not have got them and its a poor child that ends up hurt.

if it there was no children involved i would say give the dog a chance but i would not risk my child and they should not risk theres and moving it on IMO is extreamly irrisponcible

[poodlefan]

casowner - yes i do agree there are some cases which second chances do not apply. I can see where your coming from and i agree however in this case i think there is no solid evidence about the pup, the cause for the fear is unknown. how does anyone know if the previous person was the acctual breeder of the pup? obviously the main concern for the pup is fear biting which can be overcome, all im tryin to say is the option of PTS seems senseless when there are plenty of other options out there(just my opinion, not trying to be rude).

And those options are?

The issue with any kind of biting is that once a dog has engaged in the behaviour, it learns that biting ends unwanted HUMAN behaviour. Its bite threshold plummets and generally speaking won't improve. You might accustom the dog to tolerate more behaviour than it currently does but when it wants to stop someone from doing something, it will do what it knows works.

That is why you NEVER put a dog in a situation or confront it and provoke it to defend itself. Alpha rolling is the classic example of 'training' that can have severe unintended consquences.

I'm all for having someone who knows what they're doing assess the dog but it needs to be gone from that home ASAP.

Edited July 28, 2010 by poodlefan

[koalathebear]

Does Australia have a place that's anything like the Olympic Sanctuary (http://www.olympicanimalsanctuary.org/) in the US? dogsintraining over at livejournal were recommending that to someone in the US who had a dog that had killed several other dogs. Some amazing stories on the website and they take on pups. I haven't seen anything similar here but I'm a new dog owner and not that dog savvy.

Edited July 28, 2010 by koalathebear

[jazawayaya]

1. Get the pup to a vet to have a look at the lump. Keep dog and kid seperated.

2. Get a behaviourist in to have a look.

3. If outcome is bad or she doesnt bother with the above 2 then PTS don’t pass the problem onto someone else.