corvus Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 I was thinking that myself mate, but I didnt want to say it. The poor little mite. I feel so sorry for it and Im so mad at my friend for being so incredibly stupid. She knows me, so she should know better than to aquire a dog like that. Bloody hell. Well, the dog would have ended up somewhere, terrified and biting people and no doubt destined for the needle. It's not your friend's fault people do this to puppies. Your friend was just badly exploited to pay money for it and then have it become her problem instead of some other shmuck's problem. It doesn't change the fact the puppy exists at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravyk Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 A working line dog bought into a home isn't really a good idea. The working lines are bred to work, and they can go nutty kept in a backyard [i know because an idiot 'mate' of OH's has a working line BC in his backyard, digging craters]. I agree with the people saying PTS is the kindest option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 From personal experience, I know that Rescue orgs are generally unable to take on aggressive dogs, and justifiably so. Most are unable to care for them in foster arrangements as fosterers usually have other dogs/families and are unable to take the risk. Plus, to rehabilitate costs money that they cannot spare. If attempted and deemed successful, then there is the possibility that once in a new home, the problem may rear its head again. This raises all sorts of issues of negligence. Its not an easy thing to do, but my advice is pts. I agree with Corvus, its not your friend's fault but the woman who gave her the pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruffy n Flea Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 this is heartbreaking! a 5-mo old pup!??! is there no hope for its rehabilitation?!!? surely, there must be --- it's only 5 mos old!!! the fact that whoever offered it free said it was papered and also that it is from working lines --- is it likely that person is a bs artist and only said those things just to inspire interest and get the pup off her hands!??! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielle Posted July 28, 2010 Author Share Posted July 28, 2010 I just sent her a message advising her of what she should do. She knew I was coming on here for advice, so i told her straight out what has been said. Ive urged her to PTS for the dogs sake as it must be suffering (mentally and emotionally). Ill await her reply, I know she wont like what I have said as she is an animal lover but she has to understand that sometimes it is the kindest thing to do. Will update when I find out her intentions. I do hope she takes our advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Plenty of working line dogs adjust well to suburban life providing they have a good solid temperament and an outlet for that drive such as dog sports. Unfortunately in the OP's situation the dog looks to either have a poor temperament or poor handling or both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruffy n Flea Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 i must add that i have absolutely no experience at all with aggressive dogs, be it da or ha, but i would think that the prospects of rehabbing a 5 mo old pup would be somewhat successful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 this is heartbreaking! a 5-mo old pup!??! is there no hope for its rehabilitation?!!? surely, there must be --- it's only 5 mos old!!!the fact that whoever offered it free said it was papered and also that it is from working lines --- is it likely that person is a bs artist and only said those things just to inspire interest and get the pup off her hands!??! The most important time in a dog's life for formation of temperament and behaviour is up to 16 weeks (4 months) so the pup is past the critical socialisation period and rehabilitation would be quite difficult and time consuming and hard to say how successful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 i must add that i have absolutely no experience at all with aggressive dogs, be it da or ha, but i would think that the prospects of rehabbing a 5 mo old pup would be somewhat successful! You can't turn back time. The critical periods for this pup to have learned to bond with people have passed. Picture the stress this animal is under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielle Posted July 28, 2010 Author Share Posted July 28, 2010 this is heartbreaking! a 5-mo old pup!??! is there no hope for its rehabilitation?!!? surely, there must be --- it's only 5 mos old!!!the fact that whoever offered it free said it was papered and also that it is from working lines --- is it likely that person is a bs artist and only said those things just to inspire interest and get the pup off her hands!??! There may be a chance of rehab for this dog skruffy, but the fact still remains that it is currently agressive and is living with a 4yo girl. It cannot stay there. So who will take it? Rescue orgs have a responsibility to the public to ensure that their dogs are safe, so they wont take it. I cant take it as i have a small child. And its irresponsible of her to rehome it to someone else as it could hurt a child. I wish there was an easy answer.....i was hoping there would be a rescue out there that specialises in these cases, but i now know there isnt. Sadly there is no place in this world for this little puppy. Gutwrenching isnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussienot Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 A fair few people believe that there are magical angels out there, who have the skills, free time, space, money and desire to take their problem dog and fix them. They think their problem dog has options. Sadly, most people who do have the skills have enough dogs already. I can't image a place (rescue, foster, farm or family) where a terrified, human-aggressive, non-working working line Kelpie would be welcomed. Your friend needs to consider the safety of her family first, and do what the "breeder" of the dog did not do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruffy n Flea Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 thanks kavik and poodlefan i understand and i'm horrified to think of the turmoil that lil pup is in and for it to still not have any hope of recovery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 must add that i have absolutely no experience at all with aggressive dogs, be it da or ha, but i would think that the prospects of rehabbing a 5 mo old pup would be somewhat successful! age is not always a factor depending on what the problem is. If it has a genetic component of being weak nerve and low threshold to bite then you cannot totally fix it ... you manage it. You always have to keep an eye on the dog, work with it, socialise it day in day out and be prepared for outbursts. The dog fears people and reacts aggressively. If you think living life stuck in a backyard or run terrified out of its brain is the way to go or medicated up to the eyeballs to help it cope through god knows how much work will help then take it on - very very few people have the time or resources anymore to take on a HA dog that exhibits at such a young age. Most know the long term outcome and simply take the route that is less stress on the animal. I got a dog once, puppy farmed, never touched before 10 weeks. By 8 months he had bitten his owner and possessed their grandaughter aggressively, not even her father could get near. Coming to my place he flipped his lid and required 3 people to get him out of a crate with a catching pole. Now if I had the space I could have kept him. He never would have been a social dog or one to greet visitors, he would have lived in a run, spent time maybe with a dog he wasnt terrified with but apart from that lived quite an average life - is that fair? Vet was the other option as we considered him unrehomable. I did find an experienced angel for this dog but it was a one in a million. He lives as a companion to another dog he gets along with but he will never be 100% (I barely think 70%). But if they had not come along the vet was definately the only other option. You have to consider the animals quality of life as well, and despite the fact many people MEAN well and will take these dogs on very few have the experience to do it safely and properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruffy n Flea Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 this is heartbreaking! a 5-mo old pup!??! is there no hope for its rehabilitation?!!? surely, there must be --- it's only 5 mos old!!!the fact that whoever offered it free said it was papered and also that it is from working lines --- is it likely that person is a bs artist and only said those things just to inspire interest and get the pup off her hands!??! There may be a chance of rehab for this dog skruffy, but the fact still remains that it is currently agressive and is living with a 4yo girl. It cannot stay there. So who will take it? Rescue orgs have a responsibility to the public to ensure that their dogs are safe, so they wont take it. I cant take it as i have a small child. And its irresponsible of her to rehome it to someone else as it could hurt a child. I wish there was an easy answer.....i was hoping there would be a rescue out there that specialises in these cases, but i now know there isnt. Sadly there is no place in this world for this little puppy. Gutwrenching isnt it? absolutely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruffy n Flea Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 must add that i have absolutely no experience at all with aggressive dogs, be it da or ha, but i would think that the prospects of rehabbing a 5 mo old pup would be somewhat successful! age is not always a factor depending on what the problem is. If it has a genetic component of being weak nerve and low threshold to bite then you cannot totally fix it ... you manage it. You always have to keep an eye on the dog, work with it, socialise it day in day out and be prepared for outbursts. The dog fears people and reacts aggressively. If you think living life stuck in a backyard or run terrified out of its brain is the way to go or medicated up to the eyeballs to help it cope through god knows how much work will help then take it on - very very few people have the time or resources anymore to take on a HA dog that exhibits at such a young age. Most know the long term outcome and simply take the route that is less stress on the animal. I got a dog once, puppy farmed, never touched before 10 weeks. By 8 months he had bitten his owner and possessed their grandaughter aggressively, not even her father could get near. Coming to my place he flipped his lid and required 3 people to get him out of a crate with a catching pole. Now if I had the space I could have kept him. He never would have been a social dog or one to greet visitors, he would have lived in a run, spent time maybe with a dog he wasnt terrified with but apart from that lived quite an average life - is that fair? Vet was the other option as we considered him unrehomable. I did find an experienced angel for this dog but it was a one in a million. He lives as a companion to another dog he gets along with but he will never be 100% (I barely think 70%). But if they had not come along the vet was definately the only other option. You have to consider the animals quality of life as well, and despite the fact many people MEAN well and will take these dogs on very few have the experience to do it safely and properly. thank you i am attaining a much better understanding of this lil animal's future and it seems terribly bleak --- this dog will likely be more unstable than stable for its entire life and that, in and of itself, is the most unfair fact of this horrible circumstance... again, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal House Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 What a sad situation. Seems like the 'breeder' got rid of her unwanted pup the easy way. Was the pup growling and scared when they first met it? Have they had it long? Probably best that the poor pup be PTS. There are so many unwanted, gentle dogs needing homes/foster care, it's unlikely that this one would be accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 (edited) I know its hard Skruffy. It's also a terrible decision to have in your hands, trust me I have had it a few times and it hurts a lot to see an animal PTS. That it is a better option is not a justification for it, its our responsibilty as their caretakers to keep them free from pain and suffering. If we cannot do it due to our situation or experience and there is no one else that can either then there is little choice. Unfortunately one cannot sit down and explain to a dog what is happening. Some are just never right in the head from genetics or upbringing. I work with owners who have aggressive or outburst dogs and regularly they are in tears or you see they just want to chuck in the towel. It's incredibly taxing on your life, your family, your time and your wallet. I applaud anyone who persists and is doing the animal a favour and giving it quality of life. But even then there is a line. To me human aggression especially towards children is a deal sealer. Edited July 28, 2010 by Nekhbet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielle Posted July 28, 2010 Author Share Posted July 28, 2010 (edited) What a sad situation. Seems like the 'breeder' got rid of her unwanted pup the easy way. Was the pup growling and scared when they first met it? Have they had it long? Probably best that the poor pup be PTS. There are so many unwanted, gentle dogs needing homes/foster care, it's unlikely that this one would be accepted. Yep I agree, I think she just palmed it off onto my friend. Probably saw her for a sucker and fed her a bunch of BS and was gone. When the 'breeder' brought it over to my friends house it jumped out of her arms and hid under the car. My friend said that the breeder said "I dont know why shes doing that, she has never acted like that before" (alarm bells shouldve rung). Then the breeder quickly told her about the dog, got in her car and left. My friend was left standing there with a pup in her arms. Silly girl shouldve given it back to her but she allowed herself to be pushed into this. Yes it would be best to PTS i think. Edited to say she has only had the dog for a few days. Edited July 28, 2010 by Danielle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 So can they touch it at all? This is a very sad situation The poor pup obviously has not had a good start to what will probably be a very short life I don't believe these sort or problems can be diagnosed or solved over the internet. No one here has seen the pups actual behaviour and although PTS may well be the best option, wouldn't it be best to get the opinion of a professional who can see the pup in person and see how it interacts etc I believe they should get a behaviourist or experienced trainer to assess the pup and make a decision based on this. It is only fair to the pup to at least give it one last chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielle Posted July 28, 2010 Author Share Posted July 28, 2010 So can they touch it at all? This is a very sad situation The poor pup obviously has not had a good start to what will probably be a very short life I don't believe these sort or problems can be diagnosed or solved over the internet. No one here has seen the pups actual behaviour and although PTS may well be the best option, wouldn't it be best to get the opinion of a professional who can see the pup in person and see how it interacts etc I believe they should get a behaviourist or experienced trainer to assess the pup and make a decision based on this. It is only fair to the pup to at least give it one last chance. In a home with no small kids, yes that would be the best option, but it is biting and growling if they go near it.....i wouldnt risk my toddler for one day with a dog like that let alone the time it takes for a trainer or behaviorist to assess it and work with it. It needs to either go to a home where someone dedicated will try to rehab it or it needs to be PTS. She said it will sometimes let her touch it but other times it bites. It also has a large lump (?) on its head. Ive told her repeatedly to take it to the vet, dont know if she has or not. And I just got a reply from her regarding PTS and she wont do it. She is going to try to give it away......*shakes head*..... Its so frustrating to try to educate someone who wont listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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