Touchy Subject But Need Advice Or Help.

[Danielle]

Hi guys.

A very silly friend of mine saw an add on Gumtree advertising a "papered" working line kelpie bitch pup for free (ugh!). She called the breeder who came around to her house to show her the dog (weird). The breeder basically handed her the pup and left. My friend thought it would be okay as the breeder told her she was registered and that the pup was papered and she would post the papers in the mail (yeah right).

Anyways, the pup is timid and terrified, wont come near my friend or her husband and growls and bites when they attempt to touch it. It is extremely agressive (its 5 months old) and my friend is basically scared of it and does not want to keep it as she is concerned for her 4 year old daughters safety. She has contacted the breeder but got no response of course.

She knows she cannot rehome this dog to just anyone, it needs a lot of work and needs full on rehabilitation. I told her Id come on here and see if there is a Kelpie rescue that specialises in rehabilitating dogs with issues. I dont know what else to do, but I really want to help this poor pup.

No need to flame me over this either, trust me she got a mouthful from me when she told me what she did. Ive given her the third degree about only buying from reputable and registered breeders, she got the full lecture and feels very stupid. She knows she did wrong but the mistake has still been made and this pup is now living in limbo.

Can anyone give me some advise to pass on to my very stupid friend? Asides from more flaming, I think I gave her plenty enough of that myself. Is there a Kelpie rescue in NSW who could put in the time and effort for this poor pup? Ive put a notice in rescue but thought id also put one here. If this is in the wrong section or if i should not have posted this, please take it down Troy, I know its a touchy subject but Im just trying to help.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[corvus]

Poor thing. Sorry, no advice. I've tamed a few animals and it's not crazy hard, but you have to be pretty sensitive to them and I wouldn't have a dog like that with a child. Bad for everyone. Scared animals make me very sad.

[Nekhbet]

we've seen a few border collies etc down here like that, puppy farm specials. But exhibiting the growling, fighting, dominating at 10 weeks of age

frankly? Either find a specialist or take it to a vet. Human aggressive semi feral dogs are hard work and there is no guarentee she will ever be right. But for god sake not to someone who will breed it.

[poodlefan]

Danielle:

Anyways, the pup is timid and terrified, wont come near my friend or her husband and growls and bites when they attempt to touch it. It is extremely agressive (its 5 months old) and my friend is basically scared of it and does not want to keep it as she is concerned for her 4 year old daughters safety. She has contacted the breeder but got no response of course.

Sounds completely unsocialised, of extremely poor temperament or both.

They have two choices:

1. Pay for someone experienced to do a consult on the pup, and advise prospects of rehabilitation/rehoming

2. Take the pup to the vet and have it PTS.

Lovely outgoing young working breed pups die every day in pounds because they can't find homes. I'd be advising PTS. She should stay with the pup and reflect on what this has taught her while its done.

[Danielle]

Danielle:

Anyways, the pup is timid and terrified, wont come near my friend or her husband and growls and bites when they attempt to touch it. It is extremely agressive (its 5 months old) and my friend is basically scared of it and does not want to keep it as she is concerned for her 4 year old daughters safety. She has contacted the breeder but got no response of course.

Sounds completely unsocialised, of extremely poor temperament or both.

They have two choices:

1. Pay for someone experienced to do a consult on the pup, and advise prospects of rehabilitation/rehoming

2. Take the pup to the vet and have it PTS.

Lovely outgoing young working breed pups die every day in pounds because they can't find homes. I'd be advising PTS. She should stay with the pup and reflect on what this has taught her while its done.

I was thinking that myself mate, but I didnt want to say it. The poor little mite. I feel so sorry for it and Im so mad at my friend for being so incredibly stupid. She knows me, so she should know better than to aquire a dog like that. Bloody hell.

I was hoping that there might be someone with experience in this area who would put their hand up to help it....maybe im living in a dreamworld, but oh well its worth a try right? Id take it but Ive already got four monsters and a small child myself....plus i live in QLD and its so far away from where she is.

Ill have a talk to her about PTS and see what she thinks....

[Nekhbet]

when I said specialist I meant pack it off to one. I dont think this dog should stay with the family if it is exhibiting these behaviours and let me guess, they dont live on a sheep farm?

[poodlefan]

I was thinking that myself mate, but I didnt want to say it. The poor little mite. I feel so sorry for it and Im so mad at my friend for being so incredibly stupid. She knows me, so she should know better than to aquire a dog like that. Bloody hell.

I was hoping that there might be someone with experience in this area who would put their hand up to help it....maybe im living in a dreamworld, but oh well its worth a try right? Id take it but Ive already got four monsters and a small child myself....plus i live in QLD and its so far away from where she is.

Ill have a talk to her about PTS and see what she thinks....

Wait and see if any offers come up but the odds arent' great.

If she IS PTS, its probably a better option than living on a chain being a 'guard dog" for some low life.

The tragedy is what she might have been given a decent start in life.

[Danielle]

when I said specialist I meant pack it off to one. I dont think this dog should stay with the family if it is exhibiting these behaviours and let me guess, they dont live on a sheep farm?

No they dont live on a sheep farm but are on a lot of land...horses etc. But not a specific "sheep farm".

Ill see what happens, but if all else fails Ill have to talk to her about putting it down, it cant live like that and she cant keep it out of guilt.....there is a child involved sadly. What a sad and frustrating situation.

[Danielle]

I was thinking that myself mate, but I didnt want to say it. The poor little mite. I feel so sorry for it and Im so mad at my friend for being so incredibly stupid. She knows me, so she should know better than to aquire a dog like that. Bloody hell.

I was hoping that there might be someone with experience in this area who would put their hand up to help it....maybe im living in a dreamworld, but oh well its worth a try right? Id take it but Ive already got four monsters and a small child myself....plus i live in QLD and its so far away from where she is.

Ill have a talk to her about PTS and see what she thinks....

Wait and see if any offers come up but the odds arent' great.

If she IS PTS, its probably a better option than living on a chain being a 'guard dog" for some low life.

The tragedy is what she might have been given a decent start in life.

Yeah I agree PF. Ill see what happens. Sadly I dont think she will have much of a chance, but you are right, being PTS would be better than living a life of terror and sadness. Can these dogs be rehabilitated or is it usually too late at this age?

[Skitch]

I'd have the dog put to sleep. By the sounds of it, it is extremely aggressive and even if it was to be rehabilitated to an extent where it could be handled I'd never trust it and would not want to put that responsibility on someone else.

[Greytmate]

when I said specialist I meant pack it off to one. I dont think this dog should stay with the family if it is exhibiting these behaviours and let me guess, they dont live on a sheep farm?

No they dont live on a sheep farm but are on a lot of land...horses etc. But not a specific "sheep farm".

Ill see what happens, but if all else fails Ill have to talk to her about putting it down, it cant live like that and she cant keep it out of guilt.....there is a child involved sadly. What a sad and frustrating situation.

Waiting to "see what happens" is the least advisable course of action.

The dog is dangerous and the longer they stay with it, the more attached they will get.

The only ethical thing to do is have the dog put to sleep, as having this dog around their daughter is a risk. It is a terribly sad and frustrating situation.

Would it be possible for you to take the dog to make it easier on her? A compromise might be for the dog to go into a boarding kennel while they think through what the consequences might be.

[FranVT]

Danielle:

Anyways, the pup is timid and terrified, wont come near my friend or her husband and growls and bites when they attempt to touch it. It is extremely agressive (its 5 months old) and my friend is basically scared of it and does not want to keep it as she is concerned for her 4 year old daughters safety. She has contacted the breeder but got no response of course.

Sounds completely unsocialised, of extremely poor temperament or both.

They have two choices:

1. Pay for someone experienced to do a consult on the pup, and advise prospects of rehabilitation/rehoming

2. Take the pup to the vet and have it PTS.

Lovely outgoing young working breed pups die every day in pounds because they can't find homes. I'd be advising PTS. She should stay with the pup and reflect on what this has taught her while its done.

I agree with this post, PTS might be the most kind thing for this poor girl and potentially for the 4 year old involved too Poor little mite. If this happens and your friend decides to get another dog I hope she comes to you for help Danielle.

[Nekhbet]

so an added bonus is that they have a working kelpie with nothing to do, no stability and no outlet. It could be a high contributor to her behaviour. These dogs were bred to work sunrise to sunset. I've seen kelpies with little to do go pottie. She might make a good sheepdog in the right hands or on a big farm with no kids on it at an absolute pinch.

[Danielle]

Waiting to "see what happens" is the least advisable course of action.

The dog is dangerous and the longer they stay with it, the more attached they will get.

The only ethical thing to do is have the dog put to sleep, as having this dog around their daughter is a risk. It is a terribly sad and frustrating situation.

Would it be possible for you to take the dog to make it easier on her? A compromise might be for the dog to go into a boarding kennel while they think through what the consequences might be.

I meant wait to see if a rescue org puts their hand up to help. Should I give it a day or so on here? I dont know, I just feel so sad for the dog. Id love to take it Greytmate, but Ive got a 5yo daughter myself and 4 dogs and 3 horses....i honestly cannot take on another animal. Im moving in three weeks too and it would be too much. If my life was not so hectic and if i didnt have a small child id take this dog in a heartbeat and try to help it. :D

I agree with this post, PTS might be the most kind thing for this poor girl and potentially for the 4 year old involved too Poor little mite. If this happens and your friend decides to get another dog I hope she comes to you for help Danielle.

Hopefully she wont get another one as she already has a couple of dogs, but if she does id like to think that the dressing down I gave her this morning will make her rethink how to aquire a dog. Id like to believe that she took all my advice on board but time will tell. Sometimes you can talk till ur blue in the face and ppl still dont listen. Its very frustrating. I have another friend that aquired a dog from a petstore and it nearly ended our friendship as I was so bloody angry at her and she knew me well enough to know id be disappointed but still went ahead and bought it.

[Danielle]

so an added bonus is that they have a working kelpie with nothing to do, no stability and no outlet. It could be a high contributor to her behaviour. These dogs were bred to work sunrise to sunset. I've seen kelpies with little to do go pottie. She might make a good sheepdog in the right hands or on a big farm with no kids on it at an absolute pinch.

Apparently the breeder tried it out as a working dog but it was no good, that is why it was being given away for free and that is why it is 5 months old. Im not up to date with how to tell if a working dog is good or not, but my cattle dog has always been quite happy to just potter around our paddocks and has never been a hyper dog. She is the queen of the place and lives in luxury, lol, shed rather sleep on the couch all day then go herd cows. She is actually calmer than my poodles believe it or not. Maybe i was just lucky with her but she is the easiest dog ive ever owned.

[Nekhbet]

Apparently the breeder tried it out as a working dog but it was no good, that is why it was being given away for free and that is why it is 5 months old. Im not up to date with how to tell if a working dog is good or not, but my cattle dog has always been quite happy to just potter around our paddocks and has never been a hyper dog. She is the queen of the place and lives in luxury, lol, shed rather sleep on the couch all day then go herd cows. She is actually calmer than my poodles believe it or not. Maybe i was just lucky with her but she is the easiest dog ive ever owned.

breeder sounds like a dip---t. Bugger. Sounds like she got the short end of the personality stick or has been treated very roughly as well. Weak nerve working line dog - vet.

[Greytmate]

I meant wait to see if a rescue org puts their hand up to help. Should I give it a day or so on here? I dont know, I just feel so sad for the dog. Id love to take it Greytmate, but Ive got a 5yo daughter myself and 4 dogs and 3 horses....i honestly cannot take on another animal. Im moving in three weeks too and it would be too much. If my life was not so hectic and if i didnt have a small child id take this dog in a heartbeat and try to help it.

The costs involved with behavioural help, and the risks inherent in working with human aggressive dogs mean that no ethical rescue would take on this dog. At best you would get a person agreeing to take it out of pity or just to try to prove a point. No normal person takes on a dog with aggression problems for themselves. No ethical person takes one in for the purpose of selling it.

I am not suggesting you take this dog to your house. I am suggesting you take it to the vet.

Who is going to step up to the responsibility?

Or will this dog be passed on to 'somebody else' ?

[Bilbo Baggins]

Poor pup. PTS is the kindest option.

[Danielle]

I meant wait to see if a rescue org puts their hand up to help. Should I give it a day or so on here? I dont know, I just feel so sad for the dog. Id love to take it Greytmate, but Ive got a 5yo daughter myself and 4 dogs and 3 horses....i honestly cannot take on another animal. Im moving in three weeks too and it would be too much. If my life was not so hectic and if i didnt have a small child id take this dog in a heartbeat and try to help it.

The costs involved with behavioural help, and the risks inherent in working with human aggressive dogs mean that no ethical rescue would take on this dog. At best you would get a person agreeing to take it out of pity or just to try to prove a point. No normal person takes on a dog with aggression problems for themselves. No ethical person takes one in for the purpose of selling it.

I am not suggesting you take this dog to your house. I am suggesting you take it to the vet.

Who is going to step up to the responsibility?

Or will this dog be passed on to 'somebody else' ?

Well I wasnt sure, thats why i was asking. I didnt know that rescue wont rehabilitate a dog with issues. I used to when i worked with DogAid Aust. I took on agressive dogs and both DA and HA. Stopped doing that kind of work when I had my baby tho.

Ill talk to her tonight about PTS, it sounds like the kindest thing she could do for it. She wont pass it on to someone else (as in another family), ive already told her that isnt going to be an option and she agrees, but we were hoping maybe there was someone out there with the skills to help the dog. Oh well, ive tried.

[raineth]

Poor pup. PTS is the kindest option.

I agree with this.

It is a really sad situation for that pup, she soounds like she has suffered and is suffering (due to her temperament).

I think PTS for this pup is a mercy.

Rehabilitation to a point where she would be a 'safe' dog to be around, I imagine would be a long road with lots of stress for her along the way - and maybe she would never get there.