snobbybobby Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 Sounds like they adhere to the old school idea of every dog sitting there just waiting to pounce and become alpha! Sounds, to me, like they have no idea of canine behaviour. When are so called dog trainers going to start looking at the species as separate from humans and not attributing human emotions to dogs? For example jealousy and dominance. When a trainer convinces me that she/he understands the canine mind then, and only then, will he/she gain my respect. In the meantime, I will steer clear of franchises and people who are only out to sell exorbitantly priced electronic equipment. Henrynchlo The magic is not in the wand but in the hand that guides it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollerblaize Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Hi All, Just wanted to give you an update on DogTech's visit on Saturday. Yes, they have cited that we are experiencing a dominance issue. No surprises here. The 'deranking' over the next two weeks includes no patting expect when training, feeding after the family, inside on a lead and tied up, only one walk a day, no off lead dog park fun, obedience training only - no tricks. It's definately tough love and I'm not very happy with it but we have agreed to do this to see if it makes a difference. We will continue to let Blaize sleep inside. It might make sense as he is only jumping up and nipping at me and I am the one who spends most time with him, lots of pats and cuddles etc etc. We'll see. Also, we are not to let the dog lean on us, put is paw on our foot, lie across our feet etc. Will keep you all posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Sorry, but dogtech are stupider than I thought. Dogs don't KNOW the difference between tricks and obedience training - both should be fun and both are just learning behaviours. It's a 5 month old puppy, it's hardly about to overthrow the monarchy in a huge display of dominance! No patting? It's a baby, needs to continue bonding. If they seriously think that limited exercise will do anything good in this situation, then they seriously need to put a muzzle on themselves. Yurch...they should stop spouting this crap. Nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Hi TollerBlaize I don't really understand the no trick, obedience things either. Did they give an explanation for this? Where is the line drawn between the two? I'd also be careful about not socialising him. I guess 2 weeks is not so bad, but he's at an age where he needs to learn from other dogs what is & what is not acceptable behaviour. It kind of sounds like these franchises have check lists & based on those checks they label a dog into one of 2 or 3 categories. I wonder what they'd do if you took a normal secure puppy (which by the way, I believe Blaize is) and asked for an assessment without stating any problems. I wonder if they take into consideration the way a dog has been bred. From the few times I have met him, I see a dog who is bold, secure and has a heap of drive. That's what most of us want in a puppy. You didn't buy, nor do I think you want a couch potato. He has nice body language with other dogs & is a very well bred puppy. I understand why you wanted help, but just like kids, they don't come out of the box, knowing how to behave. And I think the methods we use are pretty important for our long future with them and most importantly they enable us to form that very special bond that we will have with them forever. I'm sure everyone will be here for you if & when you need some more advice after the 2 weeks. There is a lot of knowledge on this forum. Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninaandted Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Hello Tollerblaize, I hope it all goes well for you trying this out. Just take it easy on yourself! I would reinforce what everyone else has said - all dogs are different and will respond differently and I don't think your dominance issues (if that is what they are) will result in a complete disaster, but you are doing all the right things - you are observing your dog's behaviour and you are trying to sort things out before they go too far! If you find that it doesn't work or that you find what you have to do intolerable there are other ways to achieve a balanced "pack status" for you depending on the nature of your puppy and the kind of behaviour you are happy with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitchick Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Sorry to hijack this thread, Westie those links were great, i have been reading up on clicker training and sounds really good. Does anybody know where i can purchase a clicker from (sorry if this is a dumb ?) Thanx Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 (edited) Hi Tollerblaize So what happens after two weeks? Did they tell you? Blaize will no doubt go through similar stages until maturity, where he will try you out, do you have to go back to the same strict routine? It's definately tough love and I'm not very happy with it I can understand that you probably paid out a fair amount of money for this 'trainer' and you want to try this stuff out, but if you're unhappy about it, then...... 'First do no harm' would be a great motto to follow. About ten years ago when I started training my first dog (my old Kelpie, who is still with me) I spent a few years at a traditional training club, and I did what I was told as far as his training. He was a very headstrong dog, and I was a novice handler, being a crossover trainer now, and training dogs positively I will always have a lifetime of guilt about the harsh way he was handled. Got to www.k9events.com, do some reading, there is a wealth of info on there. If ever I don't feel right about the way I'm training something- I try to find a better way that doesn't cause the dog harm. Blaize is a puppy, sure he needs a leadership programme, but he needs exercises that build a bond between you, he just needs attention for showing well mannered body language. He also needs to learn how to relax- and that's easy to teach! These are some of my favourite links- Nothing in life is free Misconceptions of dominance theory It takes a pack to raise a puppy(scroll down) Hope they help you out. Mel. Edited January 31, 2005 by StaffordsRule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Errr Pitchick there was a thread on this not very long ago. I really like my 'i-click' available on the net from Black dog wear BTW did you find an agility club??? Just wondered...... Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 Can we get an update? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattandBuddy Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 1) She carries toys around when guests are around to say "Hey, look at all my pocessions, I'm the king of this castle"2) When you're sitting down she'll relax and put her head inbetween your legs for a head rub - apprantley this is dominating behaviour. 3) She's always at guests for pats and sticks her head in other peoples faces with their sitting down for attention. If you replace myself and partner with the word guests this describes exactly my dog. I too was going to go to dog tech but have decided not too. I am already doing some of the anti dominance things described above. I will read some of StaffordsRule links. StaffordsRule, you mention the K9 team. I have heard there name passed around this forum alot. Do they operate in newcastle and what are there prices like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snobbybobby Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 I will read some of StaffordsRule links. StaffordsRule, you mention the K9 team. I have heard there name passed around this forum alot. Do they operate in newcastle and what are there prices like? Hi, I may be mistaken but, staffordsrule (please correct me if I'm mistaken) was referring to *K9events* a webpage devoted to information for dog lovers and promoting training using positive reinforcement methods. The site can be found at www.K9events.com/ The page has a wealth of information on it and, in my opinion, a must for anybody who has a dog and loves it. K9events is an Aussie site which has nothing to do with K9force the dog trainer so often referred to on this list. You will also find on the site lists of trainers in areas around Australia. Henrynchlo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 If you replace myself and partner with the word guests this describes exactly my dog. I too was going to go to dog tech but have decided not too. I am already doing some of the anti dominance things described above. I will read some of StaffordsRule links. StaffordsRule, you mention the K9 team. I have heard there name passed around this forum alot. Do they operate in newcastle and what are there prices like? Be careful about attributing everything to dominance - most of the time it isn't. Nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 TollerBlaize: I suggest you meet up with some local Toller owners who are doing obedience with their dogs, i would stop those things DogTech told you to do and get advice from people who know what it is like to train this type of dog. Like most breed owners i will say Tollers have to be trained differently then others for one thing they are very prone to sulking when told off and can be soft/sooky personality wise not saying they are wimps or whatever but they take it really personally when reprimanded, i have to be very careful how i say commands to Darcy cause when i raise my voice or lower it in a somewhat aggressive way he will tune out and not learn anything. Of course not all Tollers are like this but most can be. Those methods you are using now are too harsh for the Toller personality. I would suggest just continue with obedience training but do it about 5-10 times a day in short sessions and make sure they are positive ie. clicker training Meet up with other Toller owners, contact the breeders near you and ask them for help especially the ones who do trialing with their dogs and they are sure to help you out. The behaviour shown by Blaize is no different then any other puppies at that age, just pushing the boundaries. Nova did the same thing and i stupidly let him go, even though he was a bit over the top he was NOT aggressive in any way, obeyed commands. While i wish i stopped it then rather then take half a year to fix, he didnt go psycho and try to attack anyone or go on dominant missions to get to the top. Just keep in mind Tollers no matter what age or how they are behaving DO NOT need or require the things DogTech told you to do, they thrive on peoples company much like other dogs but will take it much much more personally then other dogs they are not as forgiving as say Labs are in this aspect, they can and (if possible) do hold grudges againts you. Good luck and if you need any help just PM me Natasha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 MattandBuddy- Henrynchlo are correct - (thanks for the correction BTW ) I mentioned www.K9events.com- the website that is full of information articles and links about dog training and behaviour. One of my favourite resources. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemibabe Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 (edited) There is a story about THE dog whisperer on the abc website.. Here is the link if anyone is interested in reading it. I found it interesting. Dog Whisperer EDIT: correcting the link.. sorry It's all fixed now! Edited February 9, 2005 by gemibabe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aatainc Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 I'm with natasha - seek out other breed owners . The only thing I agree with what dogtech has recommended is to limit the walking to reduce his overall stimulation level and to reduce the patting except when he is calm. The idea that there's a difference in the dog's mind between obedience and trick training is ridiculous. I also disagree with tying him up in the house. I think you'll find that when you let him off he'll go completely berko. Better to train him to sit still without forcing him to with a tie up. feeding him after you is no biggie = it certainly won't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 I've heard of CEASAR MILLAN: the dog whisperer. I love his show, I watch it everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bridzstar Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 My breeder recommended Dog Tech to us when we bought our Weimaraner pup but we have not required their services, however I have ordered "the Dog Whisperer" book to read to maybe get some ideas. We have just started taking Molly (5 1/2 months old) to obedience classes & so far so good. We are lucky in that she had picked up all the basics before this & can now just go from there. Molly also does the whole "mouthing or nipping" thing but we soon realised it was only when she was trying to tell us something... ie missed her dinner time by 1/2 an hour or so, or when we have had to leave her for an extended time & she's telling us she misses us!! ha ha You can only give them a go & see for yourself I guess. Every dog & owner is different so there is no harm in trying. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollerblaize Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 O.K. For those of you following this - we have finished our DogTech training. Over $350 later and there is no real change in Blaize. The last thing that they got us to do was roll up a magazine and hit it down on the ground with a really loud noise to stop him from barking at us. Of course this has worked - he was so freaked out. But I know that he will get used to this and then it wont work anymore. That's not to say we're really using this - it seems so over the top to me. I'm going to just keep clicker training Blaize with about 5 sessions a day (we haven't done it for about 3 weeks - poor boy) and keep tough on him. We'll start obedience asap. In conclusion, DogTech seemed to be a waste of time. Please save your money for those thinking about it. Buying the book "The Dog Whisperer" gives you all of the principles anyway. Wish me luck - we'll keep going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Thanks for coming back & letting us know. I'm so sorry it hasn't worked out for you guys and that you spent all that money. I can't help giving another word of warning. Please be careful where you take him for obed. training. The last thing you need now is dog aggression on top of everything. I have a friend with 3 tollers who trains obed. at a high level with positive training. If you're interested, I can call her & see if she would mind if you called & had a chat. Hope to see you back at the park soon Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now