Guest tollerblaize Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Hi All, My Toller is now 5 months old and we are doing well. As you can imagine, he's full of energy and still a little mouthy etc. His barking is getting better but he still has no real manners around my little children or other children and people that come to visit. The main thing he does is jump up and mouth arms and ears. If I can get visitors to ignore him or stay still he is great. Anyway, that's the background. Now to the real question. I have decided to get a guy out from DogTech (The Dog Whisperer people) to give us some tips and advice and to have a good look at our Toller. Just wanted to know if anyone has had an experience and what it was like? Thanks in advance for any advice. It's always so good on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 (edited) Yep, I had 2 sessions with them. I spent over $300 and ended up with a dog who could sit a little more than she used to, we've achieved more by coming to places like this to learn. Their methods are emotionly harsh and some methods are old wives tails...they seem to have an obsession with the 'dominance in dogs' issue. Some people think they're great. Why don't you have one session and make up your own mind from there.....be sure to keep us updated. I can't help but think because you have a pup that you would probably benefit from puppy classes instead. Edited January 22, 2005 by sas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevah Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 I agree with the advice already given, and would take him to puppy classes. Also read some books on how to deal with it. I have a toller as well. In the first year I would use about a kilo of meat a week in training him. A toller is a breed that needs a lot of training, everyday. They are quick to learn. Take the dog to an obedience club, and work through the classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesami Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Their methods are emotionly harsh and some methods are old wives tails...they seem to have an obsession with the 'dominance in dogs' issue. Absolutely agree with sas. They seem to have a formula that they require you to follow in an "all or nothing" fashion. But I took what I found useful and helpful and rejected the rest and was quite pleased with the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scouser Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 I think much depends on where you are and who does the training. Having taken my koolie to obedience classes and havinng hit a brick wall despite extra help from the trainers there, I did get Dogtech in and the person who came did a good job - mind you he is also a trainer at the dog club. I would go the puppy class and obedience class route first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snobbybobby Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 I think much depends on where you are and who does the training.  I would go the puppy class and obedien class route first. Hi, From what I've heard Dogtech is yet another franchise and different franchisees have differing levels of ability. I certainly agree that a GOOD puppy class where puppies are not put in positions to be bullied by other more confidant puppies and a good obedience club where they can give attention to individuals having problems would be my first choice. Look up K9events on the web. It is an Aussie site and has links to affiliated clubs as well as private trainers using dog friendly methods in all the States. You should at least find someone near you that way. Good luck Henrynchlo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgm Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Personally i'm not much for obedience clubs (at least not those I'm familar with, which are run by well intentioned amateurs) especially with a dog with a few behavioral problems. On the other hand, I don't think I would go near a dog training 'franchise'. If I was going to spend money I would be inclined to look for an experienced trainer with proven results. I would ask if I could watch their training and ask about their methods before I committed myself. A good trainer should be more than happy for you to watch their work and discuss their methods before you committed to training. good luck with whatever you decide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aatainc Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Well I would imagine that at 5 months he would already be too old for any puppy preschool - I would enrol in your local obedience club for some ideas to get him started with. I also wouldn't bother with the dog whisperer people. They are NOT really "dog whisperers' they have played on that image and made people feel that they have something special. They rely heavily on dominance theory for everything so their methods really only work on dogs with complete beginner owners. Honestly, their book contained nothing that was not already in "who's the boss' by Val Bonney - a book that came out I think 10 years earlier. I would think you'd be wasting your money. While I think obedience training might be a good activity for you to pursue, I really don't think any of the behaviours you're describing are indicative of a real problem. Let's face it - at 5 months - and being an excitable breed - what you're describing is pretty normal! As for behaving around your kids - it's kind of leaving it a bit late but it would still be worth socialising him to as many kids as possible. Take lots of treats with you and reward all calm behaviour. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Which State are you in Tollerblaize?? Just wondered, Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemibabe Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Hi Tollerblaize, I have exactly the same problem with my staffy iwht children... She has to learn self control I visited a trainer in the Perth hills just before christmas and one good suggestion she suggested was to take her to a place with lots of kids (school yard) or when school is out, go somewhere where the kids frequent to walking home of similar... Have you foot securely on the leash so she cannot jump up. She can sit and try to jump but not long enough to jump. Reward her for not jumping or attempting to. If the kids want to pat her, make them ask first, then once she is settled in a sit, have the children pat her from under her chin (never over the head cause she looses eye contact) If she lunges forward or is not sitting, the kids must step back and not pat... Again, reward her with the pat for sitting. This way the dog will associate the sitting calmly with a reward of getting pats from kids... School goes back here in WA on the 31st and I will be doing this, so will let you know how we go. Regards, Kylie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westielover Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 I did the 'Dogtech' train the trainer course in May last year. The 'dog whisperer' guy knows a lot about dominance & aggression issues with dogs - and I must say the course was heavily focussed on those 2 areas. If you had a dog with major dominance or agression issues - I would recommend him. Otherwise I would go elsewhere. If you are in NSW I would recommend this mob: http://www.getsmartdogs.com.au/ - They do clicker training and I did the course twice with both of my west highland terriers & they were very responsive to this method of training. The other person who I have heard is supposed to be good with dog behaviour issues is Velma from Velma's Pets as Therapy http://www.velmaspetsastherapy.com.au/dogadvice.html She is also in NSW. Good luck with your puppy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Hi, I would take him to a dog club and just socialise still with kids. Have you started him on the clicker yet? if not its a great time to start and you can just click every time he is sitting nicely. Like Toilet Duck said they are extremely smart and i have to go through all Novas obedience work everyday otherwise he will be climbing the walls. Good luck let us know how it goes. Natasha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris64 Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Hi All,My Toller is now 5 months old and we are doing well. As you can imagine, he's full of energy and still a little mouthy etc. His barking is getting better but he still has no real manners around my little children or other children and people that come to visit. The main thing he does is jump up and mouth arms and ears. If I can get visitors to ignore him or stay still he is great. Anyway, that's the background. Now to the real question. I have decided to get a guy out from DogTech (The Dog Whisperer people) to give us some tips and advice and to have a good look at our Toller. Just wanted to know if anyone has had an experience and what it was like? Thanks in advance for any advice. It's always so good on this forum. Like you I have a 5 month old staffy and am always looking for ideas to make him a social boy with manners so no one is afraid of him. I dont have a problem when adults come to the house as he tends to mill around their feet licking their toes but when kids come over he can get quite jumpy etc. I try and tell everyone who comes through the door to ignore him and not make any contact with him until he is sitting and settled. But like you it can be a uphill battle. I even drop treats at my feet while talking to people to keep him sitting. But all in all he is not too bad. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollerblaize Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Thanks for all of your advice once again. I'm in NSW so thanks especially for the links and contacts for there. Blaize is 5 months old so a little old for puppy school perhaps. We did go, a 5 week class which was great. Blaize is really good with other dogs and we've been keen to continue to socialise him in many situations. I think all of the advice about further socialising with children and rewarding for calm behaviour rings true. I haven't actually been rewarding him for remaining calm around children. Will concentrate on this from now. We have started clicker training and Blaize responds amazingly well to this. I was very surprised. I have the forms to fill out and send back to petsmart and will probably do their Get Smart dog course. As for the Dog Whisperer guys (Dog Tech), we've commited and am seeing someone at 10am this Saturday. I think Blaize does have a dominant streak, e.g. about 60% of the time, when I go out into the backyard, Blaize will stand in front of me and bark at me. I always turn my back on him and just the past couple of weeks he as started to nip the back of my legs to get my attention. I have been just walking away and leaving him outside. This is upsetting behaviour. Apart from this he is a loving and beautiful little guy. I guess we're looking for Dog Tech to give us some advice on this. I am a NOVICE. I'll take all of the advice I can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snobbybobby Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 We have started clicker training and Blaize responds amazingly well to this. I was very surprised. I have the forms to fill out and send back to petsmart and will probably do their Get Smart dog course.As for the Dog Whisperer guys (Dog Tech), we've commited and am seeing someone at 10am this Saturday. When you say you are committed does it mean you have paid upfront to Dogtech? I tend to agree with what aatainc says and wouldn't bother with franchises if possible. Personally, I believe the dominance theory is over-done without very much real understanding of underlying dog behaviour. I would, if it were me, commit to Get Smart Dogs. They sound as if they will lead you to a great working relationship with your dog, help you to understand how dogs learn and enable you to learn about dog behaviour as well. Henrynchlo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 (edited) If you want, I'll tell you exactly what I was told by Dog Tech to over come the dominance and I'm pretty sure it will be the same kind of advice given to other people who have used them. I'll list them here and tell me what you get told on Saturday. Initial Problem: Dog who wouldn't listen, just ignored us. Solution from Dog Tech - Says she has dominance issues because: 1) She carries toys around when guests are around to say "Hey, look at all my pocessions, I'm the king of this castle" 2) When you're sitting down she'll relax and put her head inbetween your legs for a head rub - apprantley this is dominating behaviour. 3) She's always at guests for pats and sticks her head in other peoples faces with their sitting down for attention. 4) She is allowed to sit on the sofa to look at the window - apprantly this is allowing her to feel at the same level as her human counterparts. 5) She'll follow you when you get up to move - they thought this was the beginning of seperation aniexty. :p OK, so this is what we were told to do for a period of 2 weeks: 1) No more up on the sofa or the bed, she had her own futon bed in the bedroom 2) No more sleeping in the bedroom 3) No more pats when she walked past or whatever, only occassional pats 4) No walks for 2 weeks 5) No raw meat (we didn't adhere to this one) 5) Whilst inside dog must be tied up to something solid so that they can not get up and move around whenever they wanted 6) Dog gets fed after Human, dog must see humans eating, dog must also see it's own food whilst humans eat 7) Put dog outside 30 minutes prior to leaving house (we didn't adhere to this one) 8) Don't let dog inside until after 30 minutes after arriving home (we didn't adhere to this one) 9) Only give 1 toy per day and the toy must be one you choose 10 Dog to sleep outside if possible (they must be taking drugs, we didn't adhere to this one....did I mention Leila had her own futon!) 11) Daily training sessions in the backyard, teaching sit, drop & stay, drop apprantly is a submissive position so they said the dog must drop in order to respect you. 12) Teaching dog "on your bed" of they moved whilst they were tied up 13) When patting dog, only pat on top of head and only between the ears and only 1 pats. 14) Humans enter door ways first then dog, same as exiting doorways. mmm, there was other stuff, but I forget, the above were the majors. Who knows, your dog may really benefit from the above, especially if its nipping at you for attention, but it also may not be the right training methods for you. When I initialy said they were 'emotionaly harsh" training methods, I was referring to myself that I found it emotionaly hard especialy tying up dog whilst she was inside so she couldn't move around. Edited January 27, 2005 by sas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westielover Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 I guess there are some principles in their method - however I agree in that they are emotionally harsh. I also find the feeding raw meat & sleeping outside bit annoying - is raw meat supposed to make a dog wild!!! I don't agree with the sleeping outside business either - dogs are part of the family - do people's kids sleep outside??? Also - what was the purpose of not walking your dog for two weeks - gawd - how boring for th poor doggy!!! Remind me never to get Dogtech to come to my house!!!! Too harsh for my liking. I totally understand the concept that a dog must know where it sits in the pack but there are many more positive ways of making that happen!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Sounds like they adhere to the old school idea of every dog sitting there just waiting to pounce and become alpha! Nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 Toller, How did it go today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 I was wondering the same thing myself. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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