Can You Breed A Healthy Blue Staffy?

[Bubitty]

I am really curious but don't want to derail Dee Al's thread.

So can Blue staffies be well bred and healthy? I didn't think a colour could cause health issues.

My work colleagure had a Blue Staffy (bought from a puppy farm) and the dog was on all sorts of meds because it was itchy and had rashes, hotspots etc. I suddenly remember this after all this talk of blue staffies so am curious.

[Jacquiboss&scoop]

I think that because Blue is the colour of the moment

some people are breeding anything to anything to get the colour , this means they are disregarding the health issues that pass down from parent grand parent , great grand parent to your puppy , with people breading for the whole package so to speak the colour is only one factor in the mating they are more interested in healthy babies with correct confirmation and good temps so select healthy correct parents and bloodlines to produce from , So it would be possible to do so but they would be few and far between at the moment as non ethical BYB and puppy farms are breeding with blue coloured glasses on and $ signs in their eyes.

Someone with a better Idea of the possible genetic links to skin and other issues that relate directly to blues will be able to give you a better Idea as to why Blue to Blue breeding is a risky choice as staffy is not my breed , but I did see the same sort of thing happen to Rotties when they were the IN thing

[Nekhbet]

http://caninebreeds.bulldoginformation.com/blue-dogs.html

http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/dilutions.html#other

Color-dilution alopecia is a relatively uncommon hereditary skin disease seen in "Blue" and other color-diluted dogs. This syndrome is associated with a color-dilution gene. The initial clinical signs are the gradual onset of a dry, dull and poor hair coat quality. Hair shafts and hair regrowth are poor, and follicular papules may develop and progress to frank comedones. Hair loss and comedo formation are usually most severe on the trunk, especially color-diluted area on the skin

to get a dilute you also need 2 recessive genes. So you have to be severely limiting your genetics to get consistent blue dogs since a normal gene will mask the blue. Limiting genetics also limits genetic diversity and health of the breed long term

[Bubitty]

So its not the blue gene per say that makes the dog have problems its the "ethics" behind the breeding and the fact that they are only going for the colour?

[Shmurps]

Well, on the weekend we had 7 or 8 blue staffy pups through the door.

Two of them were not very healthy.

Customers in the store were going all gaga over them just because of the colour

I could see the owner of one of the pups thinking $$$$$$

[poodlefan]

So its not the blue gene per say that makes the dog have problems its the "ethics" behind the breeding and the fact that they are only going for the colour?

It's a bit of both. If all you want is blue pups then you can look past any health issues the parents have to breed them. Given that the colour is attracting premium prices from folk who don't know (or care) any better, the temptation can be pretty strong for some.

At Deshonko, we know that most real health issues a pup has probably won't manifest until the owner has bonded with the pup. At that stage, a dodgy breeder can

[Sayly]

Colour (or lack of) sure can cause health issues, not just in Staffords. Too much white on the head of an Australian Shepherd (such as from merle to merle matings) can cause deafness and blindness. Which is why our standard is particular on the amount of pigment a dog needs.

[poodlefan]

Colour (or lack of) sure can cause health issues, not just in Staffords. Too much white on the head of an Australian Shepherd (such as from merle to merle matings) can cause deafness and blindness. Which is why our standard is particular on the amount of pigment a dog needs.

Rumour has it that mating of very white particoloured Whippets to one another has seen deafness crop up in the breed.

There is a definite link between black dogs and increased risk of some cancers and between black and tan dogs and susceptability to parvo.

Edited July 27, 2010 by poodlefan

[poodlefan]

Colour (or lack of) sure can cause health issues, not just in Staffords. Too much white on the head of an Australian Shepherd (such as from merle to merle matings) can cause deafness and blindness. Which is why our standard is particular on the amount of pigment a dog needs.

Rumour has it that mating of very white particoloured Whippets has seen deafness crop up in the breed.

There is a definite link between black dogs and increased risk of some cancers and between black and tan dogs and susceptability to parvo.

And of course the lethal white gene crops up in merle to merle matings.. in dogs and in paint horses.

[Bubitty]

Colour (or lack of) sure can cause health issues, not just in Staffords. Too much white on the head of an Australian Shepherd (such as from merle to merle matings) can cause deafness and blindness. Which is why our standard is particular on the amount of pigment a dog needs.

I am just curious the colour implications for Staffords.

Say I went crazy and started breeding from light goldens, no health testing etc. Down the track I would get dodgey dogs because I didnt health test but I guess the light colour is not causing the health problems and I assume an ethical golden breeder who happens to breed light goldens will have healthy ones as opposed to my dodgey ones.

So am wondering if this is the case for Staffords or is there something wrong with the blue gene in the first place.

Hope that makes sense! I am not a "science-y" person!

[Sayly]

Colour (or lack of) sure can cause health issues, not just in Staffords. Too much white on the head of an Australian Shepherd (such as from merle to merle matings) can cause deafness and blindness. Which is why our standard is particular on the amount of pigment a dog needs.

I am just curious the colour implications for Staffords.

Say I went crazy and started breeding from light goldens, no health testing etc. Down the track I would get dodgey dogs because I didnt health test but I guess the light colour is not causing the health problems and I assume an ethical golden breeder who happens to breed light goldens will have healthy ones as opposed to my dodgey ones.

So am wondering if this is the case for Staffords or is there something wrong with the blue gene in the first place.

Hope that makes sense! I am not a "science-y" person!

Obviously, but I was directing it at your question/statement in your first post:

I am really curious but don't want to derail Dee Al's thread.

So can Blue staffies be well bred and healthy? I didn't think a colour could cause health issues.

My work colleagure had a Blue Staffy (bought from a puppy farm) and the dog was on all sorts of meds because it was itchy and had rashes, hotspots etc. I suddenly remember this after all this talk of blue staffies so am curious.

[poodlefan]

Colour (or lack of) sure can cause health issues, not just in Staffords. Too much white on the head of an Australian Shepherd (such as from merle to merle matings) can cause deafness and blindness. Which is why our standard is particular on the amount of pigment a dog needs.

I am just curious the colour implications for Staffords.

Say I went crazy and started breeding from light goldens, no health testing etc. Down the track I would get dodgey dogs because I didnt health test but I guess the light colour is not causing the health problems and I assume an ethical golden breeder who happens to breed light goldens will have healthy ones as opposed to my dodgey ones.

So am wondering if this is the case for Staffords or is there something wrong with the blue gene in the first place.

Hope that makes sense! I am not a "science-y" person!

Interestingly, some gundog folk reckon the darker a Golden Retriever is, the more likely it is to work. Working Goldens in the USA are often very dark.

You might not get health issues in your pale GRs Bub but I wonder if they'd retain any working ability. I'd watch for thyroid issues with interest too.

Edited July 27, 2010 by poodlefan

[ellz]

One of the "issues" about the blue colour, health aside is that genetically it cannot carry a black nose and the Stafford standard states for ALL colours "NOSE BLACK". If you are going to be a purist about reasons for breeding, breeding to the standard, breed excellence etc, then you cannot condone something which will not in any way, shape or form, fit the standard.

This aside, I would think that in the RIGHT hands with proper health testing and sensible breeding practices, there should be no reason why any coloured Stafford (blue or otherwise) could not be equally as healthy as its counterparts. Unfortunately though, the breeding of blue seems to be largely in the hands of those who are in it for the wrong reasons and who have no idea (or perhaps sadly, no interest) of how to breed for health, temperament AND appearance.

[Bubitty]

You might not get health issues in your pale GRs Bub but I wonder if they'd retain any working ability.

I guess someone would have to work them to know.........

My breeder thinks they should be able to do all things goldies are meant to do. But I guess if they end up in homes like mine, you never know if they can work or not really.

[SparkyTansy]

Bub not everything bad relates back to colour but in this instance with the dilute gene and it's thoughts of related issues to dilution alopecia and other skin issues then this is one of the things that would...

Just like PF says the issue that might crop up in your pale goldens might be lack of working ability... or it could be something far more sinister health wise. The message here is that breeding for one thing and not taking into account anything else is the easiest path to end up with some kind of issue or health problem.

[Sayly]

Colour (or lack of) sure can cause health issues, not just in Staffords. Too much white on the head of an Australian Shepherd (such as from merle to merle matings) can cause deafness and blindness. Which is why our standard is particular on the amount of pigment a dog needs.

Rumour has it that mating of very white particoloured Whippets has seen deafness crop up in the breed.

There is a definite link between black dogs and increased risk of some cancers and between black and tan dogs and susceptability to parvo.

And of course the lethal white gene crops up in merle to merle matings.. in dogs and in paint horses.

We covered something in a lecture today about black and tan dogs and a type of antibiotic use (sulphonamide);

... acute idiosyncratic hepatopathy also reported in black and tan type breeds

[Jacquiboss&scoop]

Hi Elle is the lack of black nose a disqualifying fault in the standard please excuse my ignorance as although I love staffs they are not my breed or even in the same group as the rotts ?

[poodlefan]

You might not get health issues in your pale GRs Bub but I wonder if they'd retain any working ability.

I guess someone would have to work them to know.........

My breeder thinks they should be able to do all things goldies are meant to do. But I guess if they end up in homes like mine, you never know if they can work or not really.

As the working gundog folk can tell you, what breeders say and what their dogs can do aren't necessarily one and the same. I'm no expert but I gather a lot of dogs have lost the appitude and drive for field work.

I'd say many Golden Retrievers have probably lost the ability to work all day in the field.. they're too damn solid for a start. Working line Labs and Goldens are far finer than what you see in a show ring.

[Little Gifts]

Colour (or lack of) sure can cause health issues, not just in Staffords. Too much white on the head of an Australian Shepherd (such as from merle to merle matings) can cause deafness and blindness. Which is why our standard is particular on the amount of pigment a dog needs.

Rumour has it that mating of very white particoloured Whippets has seen deafness crop up in the breed.

There is a definite link between black dogs and increased risk of some cancers and between black and tan dogs and susceptability to parvo.

And of course the lethal white gene crops up in merle to merle matings.. in dogs and in paint horses.

Poodlefan I am interested in this bit. I have a staffy who is black with minimal white markings. I don't know her full history but I doubt she came from a registered breeder. She was diagnosed with cancerous tumours about 3 years ago. They have not been treatable and they are everywhere all over her body. These have not negatively affected her in any way. A couple of months ago she was diagnosed with mammary cancer. Again no treatment is possible but she remains well. She's almost 16 so her quality of life is very important to me and her level of health and activity surprises me daily even though I know that will change at some point. I'd never heard about the link between cancer and black dogs so would be interested in what kinds of cancers are likely to see if she fits the profile.

[ellz]

Hi Elle is the lack of black nose a disqualifying fault in the standard please excuse my ignorance as although I love staffs they are not my breed or even in the same group as the rotts ?

It is not stated as a disqualifying fault and there are in fact no DQs stated at all for the Staffordshire Bull Terrier under the current standard, however, unlike other breeds which tend to allow some leeway in nose/eye rim colour, there is no wording to suggest that anything OTHER than black is acceptable.

For example, this is the paragraph on Nose from my other breed, the American Cocker Spaniel:

Nose: Of sufficient size to balance the muzzle and foreface, with well developed nostrils typical of a sporting dog. It is black in colour in the blacks, black and tans, and black and whites; in other colours it may be brown, liver or black, the darker the better. The colour of nose harmonises with the colour of the eye rim.

But the Stafford is short and to the point:

Short, deep though with broad skull. Very pronounced cheek muscles, distinct stop, short foreface, nose black.

I repeat, it is GENETICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for a blue dog to have a black nose.