I Have A New Puppy!

[poodlefan]

Dogs of dilute colours can suffer from a range of skin and hair issues.

In a breed noted for the sensitivity of its skin, a pretty common result for blue SBTs is a dog that has bad skin allergies and/or hair loss.

SBTs do seem to be prone to skin issues, not necessarily just the blue ones either, they seem quite prone to flea allergy dermatitis and the like.

PF, how much more common is it with the blues, do you know? And can it be controlled with good flea protection etc?

Ask the experts in the Breeds 101 forum about how common it is Aussie 3 but for dogs with very sensitive skin even the flea control can be an issue for a dog with allergies.

From my time here I've read of food sensitivities, contact allergies, allopecia...

ETA: I'd run a thyroid panel on any blue or white dog suffering from skin issues... seems to be linked to the colour

Edited July 27, 2010 by poodlefan

[WreckitWhippet]

dilution allopecia is just that and a "blue" is a dilute

[macka]

Why is blue allowed in the breed standard if dogs of that colour are significantly less healthy?

[WreckitWhippet]

Why is blue allowed in the breed standard if dogs of that colour are significantly less healthy?

the dogs wouldn't be significantly less healthy or of the typical poor quality that the vast majority of blue breeders are pumping out, if the breeders actually thought about their goals, knew what they were doing and considered the breeding beyond colour.

[poodlefan]

Why is blue allowed in the breed standard if dogs of that colour are significantly less healthy?

the dogs wouldn't be significantly less healthy or of the typical poor quality that the vast majority of blue breeders are pumping out, if the breeders actually thought about their goals, knew what they were doing and considered the breeding beyond colour.

I'd like to hazard a guess that many of the worst affected dogs are from dilute to dilute (ie blue to blue) matings.

[SparkyTansy]

dilution allopecia is just that and a "blue" is a dilute

I guess you can look at the issue being related back to poor breeding practices... the higher the incidence of the colour being bred as a fashion and in more recent times (such as that of the blue stafford), the more likely it's going to have poor skin health, because the desire to breed out the problem is far less among far more "breeders" who do not look for or test for skin issues.

Dilution allopecia can be quite rare in some breeds, such as the weimaraner, where every dog is a dilute. Perhaps the issue was discovered early when the breed was being developed but steps were taken to minimise the risk of dogs breeding who had skin issues. The care taken in developing this breed may not take place among many breeders who are breeding specifically for the dilute gene.

[poodlefan]

dilution allopecia is just that and a "blue" is a dilute

I guess you can look at the issue being related back to poor breeding practices... the higher the incidence of the colour being bred as a fashion and in more recent times (such as that of the blue stafford), the more likely it's going to have poor skin health, because the desire to breed out the problem is far less among far more "breeders" who do not look for or test for skin issues.

Dilution allopecia can be quite rare in some breeds, such as the weimaraner, where every dog is a dilute. Perhaps the issue was discovered early when the breed was being developed but steps were taken to minimise the risk of dogs breeding who had skin issues. The care taken in developing this breed may not take place among many breeders who are breeding specifically for the dilute gene.

ST, the Weimy people can clarify this but my understanding is that Weims in countries that accept the Longhairs in their standards have fewer issues with thyroid than in countries where they don't... different genes I suppose in the LHs.

[Red Fox]

Why is blue allowed in the breed standard if dogs of that colour are significantly less healthy?

the dogs wouldn't be significantly less healthy or of the typical poor quality that the vast majority of blue breeders are pumping out, if the breeders actually thought about their goals, knew what they were doing and considered the breeding beyond colour.

I'd like to hazard a guess that many of the worst affected dogs are from dilute to dilute (ie blue to blue) matings.

Ok, but who is to say that the OP purchased their puppy from one of "those" matings Is there not the chance that puppy might have been the only blue in the litter and from good quality (non dilute) parents? Surely they crop up from time to time..?

[poodlefan]

Ok, but who is to say that the OP purchased their puppy from one of "those" matings Is there not the chance that puppy might have been the only blue in the litter and from good quality (non dilute) parents? Surely they crop up from time to time..?

Could possibly be SK, but if a look at the puppy listings here is anything to go by, the odds arent' that good. There's a ton of breeders out there with BLU or BLUE in their prefixes mating dogs with blue themed names churning out this season's preferred colour.

Edited July 27, 2010 by poodlefan

[ellz]

Why is blue allowed in the breed standard if dogs of that colour are significantly less healthy?

the dogs wouldn't be significantly less healthy or of the typical poor quality that the vast majority of blue breeders are pumping out, if the breeders actually thought about their goals, knew what they were doing and considered the breeding beyond colour.

I'd like to hazard a guess that many of the worst affected dogs are from dilute to dilute (ie blue to blue) matings.

Ok, but who is to say that the OP purchased their puppy from one of "those" matings Is there not the chance that puppy might have been the only blue in the litter and from good quality (non dilute) parents? Surely they crop up from time to time..?

In a fantasy land maybe. And ideally too a blue from ANY breeding wouldn't cost any more than any other colour.....but I rather suspect that it isn't the case.

[Red Fox]

Ok, but who is to say that the OP purchased their puppy from one of "those" matings Is there not the chance that puppy might have been the only blue in the litter and from good quality (non dilute) parents? Surely they crop up from time to time..?

Could possibly be SK, but if a look at the puppy listings here is anything to go by, the odds arent' that good. There's a ton of breeders out there with BLU or BLUE in their prefixes churning out this season's preferred colour.

Yes, I know But I still think it's worth giving the OP the benefit of the doubt

She did say that she has been looking for "a while" so I'm sure that with all the blues being listed continuously and all the "breeders" that are cashing in on it, that she has done her research and found a healthy pup from quality parents.

Dee al, enjoy your new puppy regardless of what colour he is. But do be aware and keep an eye out for any issues that may be more common in his particular colour. Insurance is a good idea for any new puppy

[poodlefan]

Dee al, enjoy your new puppy regardless of what colour he is. But do be aware and keep an eye out for any issues that may be more common in his particular colour. Insurance is a good idea for any new puppy

Colour aside, I hope Dee al has chosen a pup the opposite sex to her Labrador.

[SparkyTansy]

dilution allopecia is just that and a "blue" is a dilute

I guess you can look at the issue being related back to poor breeding practices... the higher the incidence of the colour being bred as a fashion and in more recent times (such as that of the blue stafford), the more likely it's going to have poor skin health, because the desire to breed out the problem is far less among far more "breeders" who do not look for or test for skin issues.

Dilution allopecia can be quite rare in some breeds, such as the weimaraner, where every dog is a dilute. Perhaps the issue was discovered early when the breed was being developed but steps were taken to minimise the risk of dogs breeding who had skin issues. The care taken in developing this breed may not take place among many breeders who are breeding specifically for the dilute gene.

ST, the Weimy people can clarify this but my understanding is that Weims in countries that accept the Longhairs in their standards have fewer issues with thyroid than in countries where they don't... different genes I suppose in the LHs.

True PF there seems to be more issues with weims in the US than anywhere else. They have far more indiscriminate breeders breeding for a "blue" weimaraner also The germans did take a while to accept the LH though... and have strict breeding and registration practices for LH to SH matings...

Although, i don't really see what the LH vs SH has to do with the dilute gene? (sory if i missed something )

Edited July 27, 2010 by SparkyTansy

[Red Fox]

In a fantasy land maybe. And ideally too a blue from ANY breeding wouldn't cost any more than any other colour.....but I rather suspect that it isn't the case.

So are you saying that blues are rare in non dilute to dilute matings? (genuine question).

[poodlefan]

Although, i don't really see what the LH vs SH has to do with the dilute gene? (sory if i missed something )

Weak stab in dark.. modes of inheritance of coat length might be linked to thryroid efficency.

[ellz]

In a fantasy land maybe. And ideally too a blue from ANY breeding wouldn't cost any more than any other colour.....but I rather suspect that it isn't the case.

So are you saying that blues are rare in non dilute to dilute matings? (genuine question).

It is a recessive so both parents must carry the gene to produce it. So yes, it can be "rare" in a non dilute to dilute mating. However that is not what I'm necessarily referring to in the particular reply that you have quoted.

My main inference in that response is that whether a blue be "intentional" from a blue to blue breeding or "accidental" from a breeding that MIGHT produce blue, the colour should not cost the purchaser any more than any other colour would cost them.

Anybody who charges (for example) $900 for a "common" colour and MORE than $900 for a puppy from the same litter that is NOT a "common" colour is doing little more than capitalising on the colour and that IMO isn't acceptable.

[SparkyTansy]

Although, i don't really see what the LH vs SH has to do with the dilute gene? (sory if i missed something )

Weak stab in dark.. modes of inheritance of coat length might be linked to thryroid efficency.

gotcha

[RallyValley]

The American Chesapeake Club has people campaigning to get diltue (ash) Chessies removed from the standard because they are scared fad breeding will hit ash chessies which would be horrible, they may look cuddly but they are working dogs with huge exercise needs that the average dog owner couldn't manage, the amount of adolesent Chessies dumped would skyrocket if puppy farms/bybs got thier hands on some ash chessies.

Edited July 27, 2010 by valleyCBR

[Red Fox]

In a fantasy land maybe. And ideally too a blue from ANY breeding wouldn't cost any more than any other colour.....but I rather suspect that it isn't the case.

So are you saying that blues are rare in non dilute to dilute matings? (genuine question).

It is a recessive so both parents must carry the gene to produce it. So yes, it can be "rare" in a non dilute to dilute mating. However that is not what I'm necessarily referring to in the particular reply that you have quoted.

My main inference in that response is that whether a blue be "intentional" from a blue to blue breeding or "accidental" from a breeding that MIGHT produce blue, the colour should not cost the purchaser any more than any other colour would cost them.

Anybody who charges (for example) $900 for a "common" colour and MORE than $900 for a puppy from the same litter that is NOT a "common" colour is doing little more than capitalising on the colour and that IMO isn't acceptable.

Ok, thanks for clarifying.

I see that another thread has been started on this topic so I'll post any other questions there.

[SparkyTansy]

The American Chesapeake Club has people campaigning to get diltue (ash) Chessies removed from the standard because they are scared fad breeding will hit ash chessies which would be horrible, they may look cuddly but they are working dogs with huge exercise needs that the average dog owner couldn't manage, the amount of adolesent Chessies dumped would skyrocket if puppy farms/bybs got thier hands on some ash chessies.

And this is where a line should be drawn... removing colours from the gene pool for fear of BYBs is obviously a bad thing, but to lose a colour from the chessie gene pool imo is like taking away a section of their history. If the colour is banned, I'd say it'd be more likely to be a risk of being a BYB if someone got hold of some - just like what happened with the blue weimaraner - a disqualifying fault in the standard, and rediculous numbers being bred in the US, and this has now spread to the UK and Europe.