Reactive (not Aggresive) Dogs

[Aidan]

Picture a dog or a person that hasnt been fed for a week, and every time they reach for a piece of food, you slap their hand, can you see why they will come up with another way to get food? Or maybe try and grab the food faster? The initial problem (hunger) hasnt been dealt with.

Yep, makes a lot of sense. So how to deal with the initial problem? By satisfying it? Taking him herding or lure coursing? Or will that just reinforce the chase and make him want to do it more?

An excellent example. I don't know how Steve would handle this, but Sue Ailsby puts this sort of thing under "doggy zen" - "to get the thing you want (or need), you must first do this instead".

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: Yep Aidan is right, I dont know anything about Sue but if I am stuck with a dog with high values to something like dogs, sometimes rather than correct it out I think its better to take ownership of that reward (the dogs) and sell the play time with dogs to your dog, for calm behaviour.

It isnt perfect but it is effective. This can at times take corrections to get a handle on.

I would also be running a drive program on thsi dog to gain good value for a reward you can control, prey item or food even, and then deploy the dog into agility to earn that reward...

[Lucy's mama]

Thank you everyone for your positive input. I really wasn't sure I should post thismorning for fear of being shredded, but I am very glad now that I did.

Steve, I think you are really spot on in your assesment and this is the first time I have felt that the person I'm talking to has really 'got' what I am talking about.

I will pop over to your website to take a look at your distance programs. Thank you!

[corvus]

It's probably worth having a read of Control Unleashed as a supplement to anything else you do. It is full of useful tips for helping reactive dogs. I know someone on another forum with a dog that is just borderline suitable for CU classes (they are in the States) and they have been making steady progress since starting. It is extremely popular and seems to work very well for even some really intensely reactive dogs.

[Steve K9Pro]

Picture a dog or a person that hasnt been fed for a week, and every time they reach for a piece of food, you slap their hand, can you see why they will come up with another way to get food? Or maybe try and grab the food faster? The initial problem (hunger) hasnt been dealt with

Yep, makes a lot of sense. So how to deal with the initial problem? By satisfying it? Taking him herding or lure coursing? Or will that just reinforce the chase and make him want to do it more?

K9: It is probably stepping outside what I can do with any effectiveness over the internet, I did read that your working with a behaviourist, it is very hard for your current behaviourist to help you if you add things from others too.

My advise to you would be to: -

Make a decision on if your staying with your current specialist or moving on.

If you are moving on, you can email me and I may have someone near you that can help you get a grip on the problem.

Training in drive can be undertaken combined with the e collar too, you just have to be using a very low stim method that is built into the program.

I would suspect that there are other aspects of the dogs lifestyle that need to be addressed, for example I would be making sure that no attention / affection would ever be paid to this dog for hyper activity and I would be using programs like the NILIF and the TOT to help the dog learn some impulse control.

The only place this dog would be rewarded for hyperactivity would be in my drive program for my reward.

This is just how I would look at this problem, there are I am sure other ways.

Edited July 23, 2010 by K9Pro

[Steve K9Pro]

Thank you everyone for your positive input. I really wasn't sure I should post thismorning for fear of being shredded, but I am very glad now that I did.

Steve, I think you are really spot on in your assesment and this is the first time I have felt that the person I'm talking to has really 'got' what I am talking about.

I will pop over to your website to take a look at your distance programs. Thank you!

K9: No problems, take a look at my last post of recommendations, I may not only tackle this with a distance program though, might get someone up your way to take a look at your dog too.

You dont get too many chances at sorting a behaviour or dog and I am sure patience may be running out with Hubby, so lets get it right this time...

You probably have a stunning animal under these behaviours...

Edited July 23, 2010 by K9Pro

[Cosmolo]

LM- you don't need to set up anything to classically condition- just the dog and some treats and in your case i'd be using all of the dogs dinner to do it to start with. It won't solve the issue straight away but in combination with other things it works very well and is worth persisting with.

My memory may be wrong but i believe the behaviourist your working with is recommended by many DOLers including K9Pro? Talk to her- a behaviourist can't help you if they're not aware of how things have changed/ manifested/ how you're feeling/ dealing with things etc.

[Lucy's mama]

I must be confused on clasically conditioning then. I thought it was to condition a reaction to a specific thing. Like condition him to look at me when we are passing other barking, fence running dogs?

My memory may be wrong but i believe the behaviourist your working with is recommended by many DOLers including K9Pro? Talk to her- a behaviourist can't help you if they're not aware of how things have changed/ manifested/ how you're feeling/ dealing with things etc.

Yes, and I am still 100% happy with her. I simply have not had the money or the energy to go on with further consultation untill now (thankfully tax time is kind to us).

When I was asked what was the most pressing of our problems I said it was to do with his lack of respect for the kids and that has improved. Perhaps if I was a better communicator and better handler with better timing I would have got more covered while I was seeing her.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Lucy's mama

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: Oh are you working with Jane? Stick with her she is very good. We work together on cases a lot too, so I will surely help along if either of you need it.

[Sayly]

LM - as far as being a typical Aussie, I think he's one of the most difficult ones I have heard of. The ones I have been lucky enough to be involved with are generally easy dogs to be around. Even Beau, Banjo's brother wasn't as difficult as what Banjo sounds like. I have no words of wisdom, just some of these:

[huski]

I think finding a positive outlet for his energy through something like drive training would be a great idea - I've heard of and met a few difficult dogs who are really just drivey dogs that have no positive outlet for all their natural energy and it's because they look for their own outlet for their energy that they develop behavioural problems or are hard to handle. Once it's harnessed in the right way they can become a real joy to own and train.

[moosmum]

Hi,

Just more encouragement from me.

I had similar problems with one of my girls,now 3 yo.

Was a terrific dog in so many ways,but very reactive and like an A.D.H.D child...She learned very quckly,but holding her attention for any period of time was impossible.

She was so good so far as general rules of the house went,few problems there,but very reactive and very quick about it too.Getting her attention at those times was very hard.

Understanding her drives better thru' posts here on DOL was a great help,along with other little tips that were simple but had never occured to me.

I found 2 things that helped me most was a)being more consistent and expecting more rather than less. Ie. She must sit quietly before her food and wait till I say its o.k to eat.If the rule is no sitting in front of the fire,that means always! getting better discipline in other areas that were not considered a problem gave her more discipline in all areas.and b) when I reward her behaviour its only after she focuses on ME,not the reward.

She still jumps up on visitors and is not perfect,but gets better and better all the time.She now loves her training sessions and the speed she used to use for distractions is now used for good rather than evil!

I like watching how she POPS up from a down to a sit like a jack in the box.

[Lucy's mama]

LM - as far as being a typical Aussie, I think he's one of the most difficult ones I have heard of. The ones I have been lucky enough to be involved with are generally easy dogs to be around. Even Beau, Banjo's brother wasn't as difficult as what Banjo sounds like. I have no words of wisdom, just some of these:

Thanks Lyndsay, it is nice to hear from an Aussie person. Perhaps I would not find Banjo so difficult if I was a more knowledgable trainer - he is very smart and eager when in 'training mode'.

She still jumps up on visitors and is not perfect,but gets better and better all the time.She now loves her training sessions and the speed she used to use for distractions is now used for good rather than evil!

Argh yes! My other half has often grumbled 'Why can't he use his brains for good instead of evil'

Edited July 23, 2010 by Lucy's mama

[Lucy's mama]

My first piece of advice is don't get him so close to other dogs that he feels the need to lunge.. cross the street if you have to to give him more distance.

I must have missed this earlier - across the street is no where near far enough for him not to lunge. If it were only that simple I would definatly still be walking him in my own neighbourhood rather than driving to a park to walk him. I can be across the street and 50 meters down the road from a dog that is carrying on and he will lunge.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Lucy's mama

[Kavik]

My older dog Zoe sounds rather similar (but worse in that she is dog aggressive altogether).

I have had some success with the methods in Click To Calm: Healing The Aggressive Dog which from other descriptions is not that different to the methods in Control Unleashed? It is basically clicker training for attention taken to the next level by adding dogs as the distraction. I think you could do this in conjunction with other things. First have a good automatic attention = click in a quiet environment, then a busier environment with no dogs. Then start with a dog on the other side of the road. Allow your dog to look at the other dog and don't cue attention on you. If you have a good foundation your dog should eventually look back at you and you c/t. With practice your dog should automatically look at you for a c/t when it sees another dog. Gradually decrease the distance from the other dog (ie same side of street but in a driveway, same side of street but at the edge of the footpath).

[Sayly]

LM - as far as being a typical Aussie, I think he's one of the most difficult ones I have heard of. The ones I have been lucky enough to be involved with are generally easy dogs to be around. Even Beau, Banjo's brother wasn't as difficult as what Banjo sounds like. I have no words of wisdom, just some of these:

Thanks Lyndsay, it is nice to hear from an Aussie person. Perhaps I would not find Banjo so difficult if I was a more knowledgable trainer - he is very smart and eager when in 'training mode'.

You have done more than an 'average' person would do. I am no wonderful trainer either and would be majorly struggling with Banjo if he were mine. We had issues with Poppy as a pup/teenager and she is dog aggressive but thankfully doesn't react unless a dog comes right into her face, so is easy to manage. I'm just sad that your first Aussie has been such a challenge, your struggles with him alway sticks in my mind now when people are thinking about getting an Aussie or someone reccomends on in the "what breed" threads in general.

[Lucy's mama]

The little ass did a major naughty last night. My sister came to visit with her very small 6 yr old. Banjo never bothered to alert me that we had visitors. He did however repeatedly jump on her head getting all four feet off the ground while she screamed in terror! I will be hunting for a big bell to put on the front gate now and making up a 'No Entry - Please Ring The Bell' sign.

I grabbed Banjo and whacked him in his crate while we settled the poor girl then brought him out on lead and showed her how to get him to sit, drop, roll over and be gentle for treats. Her confidence improved quite quickly with him and I don't think she is any more scared of dogs than she was when she arrived.

I kept him on a lead or crated the rest of the evening. The older girl is 14 and very confident with dogs. She taught him a new trick - crawl.

[bedazzledx2]

These things happen Aussies are known for their bounce and they can be too much dog for little kids. You managed it well though and the bell is a good idea for everyone's sake.

Dogs don't understand things like don't jump up or don't pull on the lead etc. They do very well if they are given an action they can do...sit means they can't sit and jump at the same time so train and reward the sit. This will take a bit of dedication and will need teaching and proofing in many circumstances. You need to get to the point when dog sees a kid (for example) the conditioned response is to sit. You will need to reward big time in the short term, and then occasionally as he gets to understand it. If you can ask older kids to treat him only when he is sitting that will help your cause. Make sure they only reward him (treat,pat or praise) while his bum is on the ground.

There is a new Mastiff puppy where I work and he is very exuberant!!! I don't feel like being bowled over by a fully grown Mastiff everytime I go outside so I am training him to sit before he gets a pat. I've been doing this for a few weeks and now its just what he does! Good Boy!!!!

The other vital thing your dog needs to learn is a first time every time recall. There are many systems out there but the one I use and recommend is free and available here http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/Lesson6.html

Aussies are exuberant dogs with lots of energy and do really well at dog sports. Mental stimulation can be as important and energy sapping as physical. Until you can truly use all that energy train the recall very well and you and your dog can enjoy a great deal more freedom. A chuck it ball thrower can burn off a bit in a short time!!!!

The little ass did a major naughty last night. My sister came to visit with her very small 6 yr old. Banjo never bothered to alert me that we had visitors. He did however repeatedly jump on her head getting all four feet off the ground while she screamed in terror! I will be hunting for a big bell to put on the front gate now and making up a 'No Entry - Please Ring The Bell' sign.

I grabbed Banjo and whacked him in his crate while we settled the poor girl then brought him out on lead and showed her how to get him to sit, drop, roll over and be gentle for treats. Her confidence improved quite quickly with him and I don't think she is any more scared of dogs than she was when she arrived.

I kept him on a lead or crated the rest of the evening. The older girl is 14 and very confident with dogs. She taught him a new trick - crawl.

Edited July 25, 2010 by bedazzledx2

[Beth.]

I'm sorry you're still having troubles with Banjo . Sorry I don't have any advice, but I just want to say that you should be so proud of all you're doing with him!!!! And each time i've met him he's been such a well behaved boy!!! Hang it there , there's been lots of great advice here!! I feel the same as Lyndsay - it's sad your first Aussie has been a challange, but you're doing such great work with him!!!!! Good luck with it all, and hopefully we can catch up for another playdate in the future!!

[Tassie]

And can I add a very well done to you for what you did with the little girl to help make sure she will feel in control and not frightened - great job.