Rspca Proposals For A Mandatory Code For Puppy Farmers.

[mac'ella]

Im not a breeder but have been a responsible pet owner all my lifeThere has to be some steps taken to stop the needless deaths of thousands of dogs each year which the majority have been bred by puppy farmers and sold with no emotion to whoever has the money.

No one has the right to breed animals for sale if they dont take responsability for the future of the pups and the same goes for the buyers,they should have to apply for a licence nominating the breed they want then breeders can take orders before mating their dogs.this would stop impulse buying.The buyer should have suitable facilities before hand.Any one who neglects or ill treats a dog should be banned for life.

I know a lot of breeders are worried about gestapo type rules etc but how many think they would be refused a licence if they are responsible.

there will be costs involved which can be covered by a fee from each sale.

I am not out to deprive anyone the pleasure of owning and loving a dog but I would love to see the day when pounds are only there to reunite lost dogs to their owners or find new owners in rare cases and the big PTS is replaced by adopted.

Any one who is against more stringent control should click on the urgent rescue page and picture their loved pets in this situation.

[WreckitWhippet]

Why should those of us who do the right thing, who have never had a dog they've bred end up at a pound, who clean up after others, be slugged with extra controls, licenses and $$$.

Every year it gets harder and harder to breed a litter. The CC rules change, councils get tougher, the RSPCA call for more blood.

Many have already walked away, many more will continue to do so and it won;t be the BYBers and the puppy farmers you're saying goodbye to, it will be more of the ethical registered breeders, who feel they can no longer make choices in the best interests of their animals and are dictated to by people ( the RSPCA, Pollies and the go-gooders ) who have never bred a litter in their life.

It's hard work breeding and raising quality pups, it takes a lot of time and effort to do it properly and all this proposed garbage, just takes away from that.

[Dory the Doted One]

This is what I feel. New rules only affect those that follow them, thems that don't, won't and will still continue on their merry way.

My RSPCA experience is that they are anti-breeder anyways, backyard, puppy mill or otherwise. In there mind why breed a litter when there are so many dogs looking for homes....well that is what was said directly to me. I'm sure they clean that up for their public image. Gotta try and be all things to all people so you can get your views shoved through.

There is just so much stupidity everywhere, I have to admit it tires me out. Will they extend these rules and regs to cover people who breed any living thing? If not why not? Because the same things that happen in the dog world happen in the cat world. And feral cats are a problem everywhere you go, shelters kill far more cats than they the do dogs. Yet I haven't seen any legislation put in place that restricts cat breeders like it does dog breeders. Or are dog breeders the test case?

But I'm sure if too many people cry foul, they just put the same crap in place for cat breeders and so on down the line until there is no one speaking out because no one can own any kind of pet anymore.

Why new fees and charges? What service do you get for your fees and charges? Oh, is that for the administration of the new rules? Which as we know probably won't get inforced on any one but those already doing it right. Because lets face it, they have all your details so you are easy to track. And unless they get a report on someone not doing it right, they aren't going to investigate just anyone. That's an infringement of their rights, which you gave up when you decided to do the right thing and register yourselves.

It's all very well saying, if you are doing it right you have nothing to fear. But why should we be policed cos we ARE doing it right?

How about they practise policing what is already in place before they create new crap for people to try and understand and obey. How can they say what is in place is not working when they aren't even enforcing???????

Stupid...stupid...stupid.

Why is it that we have this idelogy that if we make rules, it looks like we are doing something. How about actually get off butts and actually doing something, not just talk and legislate.

Gah...I could go on, but I'm already not making any sense.

I'm just tired of being told what to do.

I'm now off to try and find someone who can test Dory's level of obedience and give me a certificate so I can apply for her registration discount. Cos even though I've been an obedience instructor and trainer and I train her at home, I have to get someone elses opinion on that. Cos I guess I can't be trusted to train her properly unless she goes to some Obedience Club (have yet to find one I'm happy with). Wonder how much that will cost me.

[BJean]

Im not a breeder but have been a responsible pet owner all my lifeThere has to be some steps taken to stop the needless deaths of thousands of dogs each year which the majority have been bred by puppy farmers and sold with no emotion to whoever has the money.

No one has the right to breed animals for sale if they dont take responsability for the future of the pups and the same goes for the buyers,they should have to apply for a licence nominating the breed they want then breeders can take orders before mating their dogs.this would stop impulse buying.The buyer should have suitable facilities before hand.Any one who neglects or ill treats a dog should be banned for life.

I know a lot of breeders are worried about gestapo type rules etc but how many think they would be refused a licence if they are responsible.

there will be costs involved which can be covered by a fee from each sale.

I am not out to deprive anyone the pleasure of owning and loving a dog but I would love to see the day when pounds are only there to reunite lost dogs to their owners or find new owners in rare cases and the big PTS is replaced by adopted.

Any one who is against more stringent control should click on the urgent rescue page and picture their loved pets in this situation.

Congratulations!

You have no idea

[poodlefan]

Im not a breeder but have been a responsible pet owner all my lifeThere has to be some steps taken to stop the needless deaths of thousands of dogs each year which the majority have been bred by puppy farmers and sold with no emotion to whoever has the money.

No one has the right to breed animals for sale if they dont take responsability for the future of the pups and the same goes for the buyers,they should have to apply for a licence nominating the breed they want then breeders can take orders before mating their dogs.this would stop impulse buying.The buyer should have suitable facilities before hand.Any one who neglects or ill treats a dog should be banned for life.

I know a lot of breeders are worried about gestapo type rules etc but how many think they would be refused a licence if they are responsible.

there will be costs involved which can be covered by a fee from each sale.

I am not out to deprive anyone the pleasure of owning and loving a dog but I would love to see the day when pounds are only there to reunite lost dogs to their owners or find new owners in rare cases and the big PTS is replaced by adopted.

Any one who is against more stringent control should click on the urgent rescue page and picture their loved pets in this situation.

My beloved pets will never BE in that situation because they were carefully researched, obtained from responsible breeders, socialised and trained.

Increased regulation only impacts on one kind of breeder - the responsible kind. The rest will carry on doing what they've always done and no doubt with the complete lack of regulation they enjoy now.

More laws change nothing if folk choose to ignore them and funding isn't provided to enforce them. I see no reason why THAT situation will change.

And as for mandatory early desexing.. it plays right into the hands of the extreme animal rights lobby.. and is NOT in the interests of most dogs.

[Dory the Doted One]

How about Mandatory education of anyone considering purchasing a puppy? I reckon that would be money much better spent.

But ofcourse, it is still fraught with opportunities to circumvent the process. Unless you can't register the puppy with your council until you produce said certificate, but still....how many people don't register their pets with council?

Educate the buyer a little bit better and let them choose from there, I'm sure most of them would then know who and who isn't a good breeder and the cosnequences of supporting those not caring for their breeding stock correctly.

Give them a certificate that states they understand the care requirements of a pet before they get one. No unlike getting a Learners before you can learn to drive.

Whatever is put in place, will still need to be followed through on. With no follow through there is NO getting on top of the issue. Now or Ever after.

Breeders are not in fear of the Gestapo, they are just tired of being the ones punished with new rules when they are already following the ones currently in place.

[Sheridan]

Im not a breeder but have been a responsible pet owner all my lifeThere has to be some steps taken to stop the needless deaths of thousands of dogs each year which the majority have been bred by puppy farmers and sold with no emotion to whoever has the money.

No one has the right to breed animals for sale if they dont take responsability for the future of the pups and the same goes for the buyers,they should have to apply for a licence nominating the breed they want then breeders can take orders before mating their dogs.this would stop impulse buying.The buyer should have suitable facilities before hand.Any one who neglects or ill treats a dog should be banned for life.

I know a lot of breeders are worried about gestapo type rules etc but how many think they would be refused a licence if they are responsible.

there will be costs involved which can be covered by a fee from each sale.

I am not out to deprive anyone the pleasure of owning and loving a dog but I would love to see the day when pounds are only there to reunite lost dogs to their owners or find new owners in rare cases and the big PTS is replaced by adopted.

Any one who is against more stringent control should click on the urgent rescue page and picture their loved pets in this situation.

Why should it only be registered breeders who are affected by this?

Clicking on the links for any pound, I see a lot of crossbreeds. I don't know if you're aware of this but in the main, registered breeders don't breed crossbreeds.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Sheridan

[mita]

My RSPCA experience is that they are anti-breeder anyways, backyard, puppy mill or otherwise.

You must be talking about your state's RSPCA. RSPCA Qld backs the responsible breeders & advises pet buyers looking for specific breeds to apply to them. Bit hard to do otherwise in Qld, where independent research from the Uni of Qld showed that registered breeders tend to socialise their puppies better & prepare them to be good pets far more than unregistered ones do. And they also produce far less accidental litters. The research concluded that dogs from the registered breeders are therefore less likely to be dumped in shelters & pounds later on.

From the RSPCA Qld February 2010 newsletter:

If you are considering adoption, why not visit the RSPCA or another reputable rescue organisation first. If you are seeking a specific breed then we recommend you find a responsible breeder.

There's already a pilot program on Qld's Gold Coast for the licensing of breeders....funded by the Qld Government. From an initiative put forward by AWL Qld. Wisely, all stakeholders were gathered into a Committee to formulate & agree on the nature of the licensing. That included the Qld Canine Council, the RSPCA, AWL Qld, the association representing p/b cat breeders, the Gold Coast Council....& others.

If any changes to legislation are considered, they should not be imposed from top-down.....but be devised from a round table representing all that have a stake.'

Like this Gold Coast region initiative.

Edited August 5, 2010 by mita

[toy dog]

i think we all need to have a united front and get them to recognise the hobby breeder, the RSPCA wrote back to me some girl and told me that they are also targetting culling of rhodesian ridgebacks pups, i responded by saying how about greyhound breeders who put down greyhounds that don't make it in racing there would be more of them being culled than ridgeback pups, ridgeback breeders are in the minority. they ignored me as usual.

they don't seem to know about the hobby breeder and the ANKC as they are going on the stupid english program pedigree dogs exposed but they don't seem to know what is going on in their own backyard.

i don't think anyone in RSPCA has involved themselves in the dog world but are still spouting off that we all the same as puppy farmers.

a few years ago the government tried to put in place legislation about diseases and the consumer but the VCA was informed and they fought it tooth and nail and got the govt to liaise with them so we all stopped it we can do it again. we need to write to our state controlling bodies because i agree we pay enough money for them to liaise on all our behalfs.

the VCA claimed they had a media section to combat all of this, so i wonder if anyone has heard and what they are going to do about it to get the RSPCA to recognise our hobby breeders and not be lumped in with all of this.

many years ago they use to actually publish our addresses in the monthly gazette, does anyone remember this?????? going back in the 80's now.

[Shmurps]

What's a hobby breeder?

[toy dog]

Im not a breeder but have been a responsible pet owner all my lifeThere has to be some steps taken to stop the needless deaths of thousands of dogs each year which the majority have been bred by puppy farmers and sold with no emotion to whoever has the money.

No one has the right to breed animals for sale if they dont take responsability for the future of the pups and the same goes for the buyers,they should have to apply for a licence nominating the breed they want then breeders can take orders before mating their dogs.this would stop impulse buying.The buyer should have suitable facilities before hand.Any one who neglects or ill treats a dog should be banned for life.

I know a lot of breeders are worried about gestapo type rules etc but how many think they would be refused a licence if they are responsible.

there will be costs involved which can be covered by a fee from each sale.

I am not out to deprive anyone the pleasure of owning and loving a dog but I would love to see the day when pounds are only there to reunite lost dogs to their owners or find new owners in rare cases and the big PTS is replaced by adopted.

Any one who is against more stringent control should click on the urgent rescue page and picture their loved pets in this situation.

what about the little breeder who only breeds a litter for themselves and keeps all the pups for themselves and doesn't sell anything for 5 years straight? the last litter all the litter was kept until they were 9 months old. we often sell dogs desexed for free but cover our costs for desexing and vaccinations and microchipping. should breeders like us and there are many many, be lumped in with the puppy farmers?

[Julie R]

a few years ago the government tried to put in place legislation about diseases and the consumer but the VCA was informed and they fought it tooth and nail and got the govt to liaise with them so we all stopped it we can do it again. we need to write to our state controlling bodies because i agree we pay enough money for them to liaise on all our behalfs.

many years ago they use to actually publish our addresses in the monthly gazette, does anyone remember this?????? going back in the 80's now.

*****************

Hi

You will find the VCA did not stop the legislation at all, and yes I can recall when names and addresses were published in both the KCC Journal and also the Royal show catalogues.

copied below is from Dogs Vic website

CLAUSE 89 - BREEDING OF ANIMALS WITH HERITABLE DISEASES

The Heritable Defects Code of Practice is now in effect as of 18 June 2009 - More Information (.doc)

Visit the DPI's page of Victorian Codes of Practice for Animal Welfare to download the full Code (listed under Heritable Defects)

The link to this page is as follows http://www.dogsvictoria.org.au/Content.asp?ID=287

[toy dog]

What's a hobby breeder?

my defination is a breeder that breeds a litter for themselves for that showdog and for the breed to improve it not breeding a litter to sell for money. but things cost so much these days, stud fees, vaccs, microchips desexing that you have to get back that money you have spent if a dog doesn't make it in the ring. we keep most of the pups run them on until they are at least 6 months old or beyond that. we don't sell too many pups the last one was 2 years ago a 12 week old male pup. before that it was 5 years previous with a 8 week old girl puppy. so you see we don't breed for money but we breed for ourselves for that special showdog and to better our breed.

if anyone has a better explanation feel free to jump in. this is just my explanation.

Edited August 5, 2010 by toy dog

[toy dog]

*****************

Hi

You will find the VCA did not stop the legislation at all, and yes I can recall when names and addresses were published in both the KCC Journal and also the Royal show catalogues.

copied below is from Dogs Vic website

CLAUSE 89 - BREEDING OF ANIMALS WITH HERITABLE DISEASES

The Heritable Defects Code of Practice is now in effect as of 18 June 2009 - More Information (.doc)

Visit the DPI's page of Victorian Codes of Practice for Animal Welfare to download the full Code (listed under Heritable Defects)

The link to this page is as follows http://www.dogsvictoria.org.au/Content.asp?ID=287

you will find that they weren't going to include registered breeders until we all kicked up a stink. they were going to just put it across the board like the RSPCA are proposing now.

[Julie R]

*****************

Hi

You will find the VCA did not stop the legislation at all, and yes I can recall when names and addresses were published in both the KCC Journal and also the Royal show catalogues.

copied below is from Dogs Vic website

CLAUSE 89 - BREEDING OF ANIMALS WITH HERITABLE DISEASES

The Heritable Defects Code of Practice is now in effect as of 18 June 2009 - More Information (.doc)

Visit the DPI's page of Victorian Codes of Practice for Animal Welfare to download the full Code (listed under Heritable Defects)

The link to this page is as follows http://www.dogsvictoria.org.au/Content.asp?ID=287

you will find that they weren't going to include registered breeders until we all kicked up a stink. they were going to just put it across the board like the RSPCA are proposing now.

Sorry I don't quite follow you, could you please explain.

[Julie R]

*****************

Hi

You will find the VCA did not stop the legislation at all, and yes I can recall when names and addresses were published in both the KCC Journal and also the Royal show catalogues.

copied below is from Dogs Vic website

CLAUSE 89 - BREEDING OF ANIMALS WITH HERITABLE DISEASES

The Heritable Defects Code of Practice is now in effect as of 18 June 2009 - More Information (.doc)

Visit the DPI's page of Victorian Codes of Practice for Animal Welfare to download the full Code (listed under Heritable Defects)

The link to this page is as follows http://www.dogsvictoria.org.au/Content.asp?ID=287

you will find that they weren't going to include registered breeders until we all kicked up a stink. they were going to just put it across the board like the RSPCA are proposing now.

Sorry I don't quite follow you, could you please explain.

[mac'ella]

Just been reading a few reactions to my reply Naturally registered breeders are fearfull they will be prevented from breeding by the RSPCA,(I don't agree with a lot of their rules and practices) but do you want to just sweep the whole issue under the carpet this will just let the puppy farmers go and do what they like.I know illegal practices can never be stopped completely,its the same with reptiles and birds, but if you need a licence number to advertise pups in the paper this should deter a percentage then to register a dog at council it must be proved it came from a registered breeder (now comes the part about all the unregistered dogs around already)which have probably come from backyarders etc anyway.

I know that a high percentage of breeders take utmost care to ensure their pups go to a great home.but I also see a few who use a bitch for a few litters then offload them to a loving ''retirement home'' so they can proceed with the next one, the message here is that these dogs are expendable,how many agree with this practice?as I said before I am not a breeder and there may be reasons for this but every dog I or my family has owned has stayed a member of our family until they died.

Another issue bought up was hobby and show breeders they are not the ones who are creating the problem.How many of the registered breeders on Dogz on line actually show their dogs.this is where you have to draw the line.If dogs are bred for health and quality not quantity and profit the breeds would benefit, there would still be pups for pet only and if sold either desexed or with a clause to be desexed a a suitable age (again not fool proof)

Breeders should be allowed to plan extra litters if they have genuine buyers who have been checked and as I said previously apply for a licence to own that dog.

There was mention of RSPCA wanting to cull Rhodesian puppies I take it this has to do with the sinus defect in dogs with the full rose? again I may be wrong but if this is an issue should genuine breeders continue breeding with this problem.The same goes with Blue Staffies there seems to be 2 factions here, the traditional breeders say that it is a diluted pigmant,why then did the breed standards allow them.White Boxers? they don't conform but breeders still want flashy white chests and feet.so they continue to breed the same lines that throw whites.

[chriswiddler]

Dogs will continue to die as long as groups like RSPCA treat them as disposable commodities. There is a shortfall in pets in Australia and that is being filled by pet shops and non-registered breederfs. When RSPCA goes no-kill then we may see a change in community attitudes to companion animals.

[OSoSwift]

Naturally registered breeders are fearfull they will be prevented from breeding by the RSPCA,(I don't agree with a lot of their rules and practices) but do you want to just sweep the whole issue under the carpet this will just let the puppy farmers go and do what they like

I think you will find that registered ethical breeders should not, and don't want to be lumped in with Puppy farming businesses. Ethical registered breeders already do the right thing. Puppy farms and puppy factories do not.

I would not like what I do, lumped in with people who raise dogs and puppies like livestock in multiple pens in sheds with absolutely no idea where they end up or who with.

There needs to be legislation that deals with Puppy farms and farmers. I do not think that someone as myself should be mentioned in the same breathe as a puppy farmer.

[mita]

We are calling for a Breeders Code of Practice to be created - this would be lead by the State Government and would require consultation and committees of all the stakeholders to draft and write. We would also encourage a licensing scheme for Breeders, again so consumers can recognise a responsible breeder

The ethical guidelines for practice set out by the Qld Canine Council (now Dogs, Qld) are excellent. In that sense, a breeders' code of practice already exists. Just needs highlighting & bringing to the attention of the public.

There already is a form of 'licensing' up & running in the pilot program of breeding 'permits' being required in the Gold Coast Council area.

Funded by the Qld government & coordinated by AWL Qld, the system was designed by a round-table of stakeholders which included Dogs Qld & the RSPCA Qld, among others.

Full information available from the AWL Qld website home page.