Border Collies And Australian Shepherds

[JulesP]

Hi Haylz

You posed a very good question in your original post and you were offered some great information by a number of DOLers, in particular DancinBC's. Unfortunately some people like to big note themselves in regards to their knowledge and I particularly find the statemen about someone not being smart enough offensive, this may not have been the intentions, but it was written mindlessly

I would say to you when picking a pup, be it BC or Aussie, pick the breed that visually appeals to you because YOU are the one that has to live with it and that is all that counts. I am sure with what ever puppy you pick you will be offered as much help as you ask for, whether it be on here, with your breeder or with your club. Good luck and enjoy your new puppy when it comes along

Now there is some excellent and very intelligent advice!! Well said Bonduca, if only we could all cut right to the nitty gritty of the matter like you do.

So there you have it, pick the breed you like the look of. Forget about if the breed is suitable for your goals. Forget about about health concerns. Forget about thinking how the breeds temperament might be to live with. Just pick the breed that visually appeals to you, remember "that is all the counts".

Actually it isn't bad advice. Both breeds sound suitable for the OP. Within both breeds there is a range of temperaments. Their visual appearance is a reasonable difference.

Pity you aren't closer to Croydon haylz27. Leopuppy and I are usually there on Sundays and there are other nice examples of both breed.

There is a herding comp on at Nyora this weekend. Should be lots of Aussies there as it is at a breeders house. Big drive for you though. The lady I get my borders from lives in Geelong, can pass over her details if you want to talk to her. She has a lovely big boofy blue 6 month old pup looking for a home at the moment.

[Dame Aussie]

Just wanted to add.......

When looking for a pup I was looking at GR's and BC's, and I too then came across Aussies, I couldn't believe there weren't more of them! People still don't know what Lili is, they think she's a BC x Husky because she has a merled eye. There really aren't a lot of them around.

Looks wise, I prefer the Aussies stockiness and face, not as pointy as a BCs. I haven't owned a BC but would love to one day

Temperament and personality wise, I can't fault my girl, I have friends who would happily steal her out from under me, she is so devoted, just wants to please me she loves her cuddles and her wiggly bum is to die for Her face smiles when she's happy.

She is also quite laid back for a working dog, as long as she gets her daily walk she is happy to lay on the couch or sit out the back with us. She is wary of strangers, but sooo trusting of us it's so endearing. Get an AUSSIE!

Here's the cuddle monster out the back and with her Daddy....

Edited July 16, 2010 by Aussie3

[Gayle.]

Regarding dogs that bond with one person.....when we bought Benson he was supposed to be my dog. I did everything for him and with him. Fed, groomed, walked, played, trained, picked up his poo, cleaned up his mess...everything. But he decided that although he loves me, he idolises my husband and wherever my husband is, so is Benson. I have to concede my dog to the person the dog wants to be with most.

When we got Dusty, my teenage daughter laid claim to her. From the moment we saw her in a photo, aged one day, my daughter decided that this was HER puppy. Dusty came to use aged 8 weeks, and bounded out of her crate, took one look at me and decided there and then that I was the centre of her world. Two and a half years later, that hasn't changed.

Our new little bloke, Isaak, is sharing himself around currently but he seems very taken with Benson and therefore spends a fair amount of time around my husband. We'll see.

As much as I love Aussies, and as much as they are supposed to be similar to Border Collies, I'll hopefully always own Aussies but have never had any desire to own a BC and still don't. Nothing against them, they simply don't interest me, just like lots of other breeds don't interest me.

[Bonduca]

Hi Haylz

You posed a very good question in your original post and you were offered some great information by a number of DOLers, in particular DancinBC's. Unfortunately some people like to big note themselves in regards to their knowledge and I particularly find the statemen about someone not being smart enough offensive, this may not have been the intentions, but it was written mindlessly

I would say to you when picking a pup, be it BC or Aussie, pick the breed that visually appeals to you because YOU are the one that has to live with it and that is all that counts. I am sure with what ever puppy you pick you will be offered as much help as you ask for, whether it be on here, with your breeder or with your club. Good luck and enjoy your new puppy when it comes along

Now there is some excellent and very intelligent advice!! Well said Bonduca, if only we could all cut right to the nitty gritty of the matter like you do.

So there you have it, pick the breed you like the look of. Forget about if the breed is suitable for your goals. Forget about about health concerns. Forget about thinking how the breeds temperament might be to live with. Just pick the breed that visually appeals to you, remember "that is all the counts".

Actually it isn't bad advice. Both breeds sound suitable for the OP. Within both breeds there is a range of temperaments. Their visual appearance is a reasonable difference.

Pity you aren't closer to Croydon haylz27. Leopuppy and I are usually there on Sundays and there are other nice examples of both breed.

There is a herding comp on at Nyora this weekend. Should be lots of Aussies there as it is at a breeders house. Big drive for you though. The lady I get my borders from lives in Geelong, can pass over her details if you want to talk to her. She has a lovely big boofy blue 6 month old pup looking for a home at the moment.

Hey Shortstep

You have a lot to offer in regards to your knowledge BUT...................... your delivery sucks. Your post implies that you think everyone has no idea, even treating others with a condescending attitude, and in my case that maybe so but after 30 years around and owing the breed I feel I know a little but am still learning as I am not ignorant. You need to learn some manners or better still social skills as I feel you lack both. I do not know who you are but with the tone of your replies I think I may have some idea that you could be 1 of 2 people and if I am right I am truly dissapointed Keep up with your holier then thou post as I am sure you will win alot of respect on here

[Mystiqview]

Maybe our Victorian showline BCs are broken confused.gif. They seem to be more 'intense' than the workers. You go to a Flyball comp here most of the time the workers are sleeping in between racing, but you can hear the others barking and carrying on in their crates laugh.gif.

That in my opinion is lack of responsibility on the handler. Some dogs can be equally as driven on and off the field and from the same lines and BE QUIET with their handlers than other dogs who non stop bark while their handlers ignore the issue and let them get away with it.

blame the handler, not the dog

ETA: Clarifying adjectives

Edited July 16, 2010 by Mystiqview

[Perry's Mum]

Go for a koolie - no major health issues and they are a lot cheaper to buy and will do anything you want - whether it is agility, herding or obedience. They are bright, friendly, loyal, wash and wear, come in a huge variety of colours, what more could you want.

Edited July 16, 2010 by Perry's Mum

[dancinbcs]

Go for a koolie - no major health issues and they are a lot cheaper to buy and will do anything you want - whether it is agility, herding or obedience. They are bright, friendly, loyal, wash and wear, come in a huge variety of colours, what more could you want.

An ANKC registered pure bred dog.

[Dame Aussie]

Go for a koolie - no major health issues and they are a lot cheaper to buy and will do anything you want - whether it is agility, herding or obedience. They are bright, friendly, loyal, wash and wear, come in a huge variety of colours, what more could you want.

I would also love a Koolie one day

[Parkeyre]

Go for a koolie - no major health issues and they are a lot cheaper to buy and will do anything you want - whether it is agility, herding or obedience. They are bright, friendly, loyal, wash and wear, come in a huge variety of colours, what more could you want.

An ANKC registered pure bred dog.

Australian Shepherds are all of those things.. And ANKC registered as an actual breed, not one in the works that isn't recognised.

[Mystiqview]

Hi Haylz

You posed a very good question in your original post and you were offered some great information by a number of DOLers, in particular DancinBC's. Unfortunately some people like to big note themselves in regards to their knowledge and I particularly find the statemen about someone not being smart enough offensive, this may not have been the intentions, but it was written mindlessly

I would say to you when picking a pup, be it BC or Aussie, pick the breed that visually appeals to you because YOU are the one that has to live with it and that is all that counts. I am sure with what ever puppy you pick you will be offered as much help as you ask for, whether it be on here, with your breeder or with your club. Good luck and enjoy your new puppy when it comes along

Now there is some excellent and very intelligent advice!! Well said Bonduca, if only we could all cut right to the nitty gritty of the matter like you do.

So there you have it, pick the breed you like the look of. Forget about if the breed is suitable for your goals. Forget about about health concerns. Forget about thinking how the breeds temperament might be to live with. Just pick the breed that visually appeals to you, remember "that is all the counts".

Actually it isn't bad advice. Both breeds sound suitable for the OP. Within both breeds there is a range of temperaments. Their visual appearance is a reasonable difference.

Pity you aren't closer to Croydon haylz27. Leopuppy and I are usually there on Sundays and there are other nice examples of both breed.

There is a herding comp on at Nyora this weekend. Should be lots of Aussies there as it is at a breeders house. Big drive for you though. The lady I get my borders from lives in Geelong, can pass over her details if you want to talk to her. She has a lovely big boofy blue 6 month old pup looking for a home at the moment.

Hey Shortstep

You have a lot to offer in regards to your knowledge BUT...................... your delivery sucks. Your post implies that you think everyone has no idea, even treating others with a condescending attitude, and in my case that maybe so but after 30 years around and owing the breed I feel I know a little but am still learning as I am not ignorant. You need to learn some manners or better still social skills as I feel you lack both. I do not know who you are but with the tone of your replies I think I may have some idea that you could be 1 of 2 people and if I am right I am truly dissapointed Keep up with your holier then thou post as I am sure you will win alot of respect on here

Shortstep;

Where did Bonduca say to ignore the health concerns, temperament or anything else. She said to consider a breed that you visually like. No use picking any breed that you do not particularly like the look of, even if the breed in general does all you want it to unless a person is prepared to make concessions. If the person likes the looks of the aussie and their traits, then maybe they should start looking first at the Aussies and doing more research. Conversely, If the person likes the look and traits of a border collie whether that be working or show lines, then more research on breeders, temperament and suitability should start from there.

Haylz;

No matter what breed you pick, as a number of other people have said, start talking to breeders of those breeds at shows/trials and do more research there. Each breed and class (show vs working) have good and "bad" qualities depending on YOUR situation. Unfortunately it is a decision only you can make. Within each breed and each litter as others have pointed out, you will find a range of temperaments from social butterfly, high drive, low drive and introvert. Hopefully what ever breeder you end up going with, will be able to assist you to identify a puppy that will potentially suit YOU and YOUR requirements.

If you are into agility and so forth, start talking to people at trials who have aussies and borders. There are more working line borders in agility now and I am sure you will be able to compare their different styles and work out what would suit your requirements.

[RubyStar]

Here's the cuddle monster out the back and with her Daddy....

Can I ask, is she a blue or red merle? I can usually tell the difference but in some instances like yours, I admit I can't tell and in one photo I think I can tell, then the next photo contradicts what I thought

[Parkeyre]

Here's the cuddle monster out the back and with her Daddy....

Can I ask, is she a blue or red merle? I can usually tell the difference but in some instances like yours, I admit I can't tell and in one photo I think I can tell, then the next photo contradicts what I thought

Her nose pigment is red

[shortstep]

Go for a koolie - no major health issues and they are a lot cheaper to buy and will do anything you want - whether it is agility, herding or obedience. They are bright, friendly, loyal, wash and wear, come in a huge variety of colours, what more could you want.

I would not let lack of ANKC registration put me off. They can be registered in sporting or associate and do all of the activities she has listed.

They certainly do very well in agility and are highly trainable dogs with good temperaments.

I do not think as a rule Koolies meet the big and goofy description however. Sleek and sexy maybe! LOL

If I were to look at koolies I would be asking for hip scoring on parents and eye exams on the parents and pups. Avoid double merle litters. Make sure they can hear.

[Bonduca]

Go for a koolie - no major health issues and they are a lot cheaper to buy and will do anything you want - whether it is agility, herding or obedience. They are bright, friendly, loyal, wash and wear, come in a huge variety of colours, what more could you want.

I would not let lack of ANKC registration put me off. They can be registered in sporting or associate and do all of the activities she has listed.

They certainly do very well in agility and are highly trainable dogs with good temperaments.

I do not think as a rule Koolies meet the big and goofy description however. Sleek and sexy maybe! LOL

If I were to look at koolies I would be asking for hip scoring on parents and eye exams on the parents and pups. Avoid double merle litters. Make sure they can hear.

Great I should be able to help out there as my uncle has been breeding and training working kelpies and Koolies for more then 40 years,most fully trained and working pups have sold for and average of around $4k, as he has worked all his life for Elders as a stock buyer and uses them to load the cattle and sheep onto the trucks....O yes and I use to go out on short droves with him as a kid......that's where I met my first BC Maybe Shortstep could tell him how stupid he is and how much he knows nothing of and how much they do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RubyStar]

Here's the cuddle monster out the back and with her Daddy....

Can I ask, is she a blue or red merle? I can usually tell the difference but in some instances like yours, I admit I can't tell and in one photo I think I can tell, then the next photo contradicts what I thought

Her nose pigment is red

So that means red merle? Sorry Bonnie, I don't go reading up on the genetics of Aussies, I merely peek into the Aussie thread to perve on the pictures posted, so I am still only in the interested and learning phase.

ETA: I decided to go and have a quick google on this so good to know what else to look for in distinguishing between the two besides the coat colour!

Edited July 16, 2010 by RubyStar

[Parkeyre]

Here's the cuddle monster out the back and with her Daddy....

Can I ask, is she a blue or red merle? I can usually tell the difference but in some instances like yours, I admit I can't tell and in one photo I think I can tell, then the next photo contradicts what I thought

Her nose pigment is red

So that means red merle? Sorry Bonnie, I don't go reading up on the genetics of Aussies, I merely peek into the Aussie thread to perve on the pictures posted, so I am still only in the interested and learning phase.

you are spot on.

I didn't intend for that to be rude, I just wanted you to see a hint on how to tell.

Red noses should mean red tri or red merle, whereas black noses will mean black tri or blue merle.

When I was unsure of colours (due to some blues looking burnt or reds being very diluted to look almost grey) the noses really helped me.

[haylz27]

Just wanted to add.......

When looking for a pup I was looking at GR's and BC's, and I too then came across Aussies, I couldn't believe there weren't more of them! People still don't know what Lili is, they think she's a BC x Husky because she has a merled eye. There really aren't a lot of them around.

Looks wise, I prefer the Aussies stockiness and face, not as pointy as a BCs. I haven't owned a BC but would love to one day

Temperament and personality wise, I can't fault my girl, I have friends who would happily steal her out from under me, she is so devoted, just wants to please me she loves her cuddles and her wiggly bum is to die for Her face smiles when she's happy.

She is also quite laid back for a working dog, as long as she gets her daily walk she is happy to lay on the couch or sit out the back with us. She is wary of strangers, but sooo trusting of us it's so endearing. Get an AUSSIE!

Here's the cuddle monster out the back and with her Daddy....

Aww, this made my night! Our beagle x is a snuggler too. She even tries to sleep on the pillow.

ETA: I've looked at koolies before, but they don't really interest me that much to be honest.

Bed time for me, if you are going to continue to discuss the breed try not to go too off-track guys.

Edited July 16, 2010 by haylz27

[RubyStar]

Here's the cuddle monster out the back and with her Daddy....

Can I ask, is she a blue or red merle? I can usually tell the difference but in some instances like yours, I admit I can't tell and in one photo I think I can tell, then the next photo contradicts what I thought

Her nose pigment is red ;)

So that means red merle? Sorry Bonnie, I don't go reading up on the genetics of Aussies, I merely peek into the Aussie thread to perve on the pictures posted, so I am still only in the interested and learning phase.

you are spot on.

I didn't intend for that to be rude, I just wanted you to see a hint on how to tell.

Red noses should mean red tri or red merle, whereas black noses will mean black tri or blue merle.

When I was unsure of colours (due to some blues looking burnt or reds being very diluted to look almost grey) the noses really helped me.

No worries, like I added to the edit of my post, good to know what else to look out for to tell the difference, as sometimes it can be a bit hard to tell when their coats don't look "typical" of what merle colour they are Thanks.

[Perry's Mum]

Go for a koolie - no major health issues and they are a lot cheaper to buy and will do anything you want - whether it is agility, herding or obedience. They are bright, friendly, loyal, wash and wear, come in a huge variety of colours, what more could you want.

I would not let lack of ANKC registration put me off. They can be registered in sporting or associate and do all of the activities she has listed.

They certainly do very well in agility and are highly trainable dogs with good temperaments.

I do not think as a rule Koolies meet the big and goofy description however. Sleek and sexy maybe! LOL

If I were to look at koolies I would be asking for hip scoring on parents and eye exams on the parents and pups. Avoid double merle litters. Make sure they can hear.

Double merle litters would be a problem in any breed. Koolie Club breeders would not breed a double merle litter. I am not aware of any Koolies having hip problems. A pup from a Koolie Club breeder is generally under $350. Some are big but I have not met a goofy one, although some do seem to have a definite sense of humour and like to play and tease. Certaionly fun to live with. I have not had an Aussie although I have friends who have a couple and I do not see much difference except tails and price and a guaranteed long coat. I have had a border collie who was a delight also but the koolie has more of an off switch.

[Mystiqview]

Are Koolies hip scored as a matter of course?