Border Collies And Australian Shepherds

[haylz27]

Sorry if this is in the wrong section, the breed sub forum only had individual breeds.

I'll try to be as brief as possible.

For the past year or so I've wanted a new dog. I've researched two of my favourite breeds the most, the BC and the Aussie. Before I discovered the Aussie I was absolutely obsessed with BCs. They are athletic, highly intelligent, loyal. Everything I'm looking for in a dog... But then, I started researching Aussies. I have been leaning towards Aussies more. Unlike BCs it sounds like Aussies have an off-switch, and tend to bond with one person (which is perfect for me), they sound goofy, athletic and intelligent as well. There's just something about them that stands out for me. The thing is, I have only met a handful of Aussies (..2 or 3 to be exact) and I only saw them walking with their owners.

I know some people hate the whole "Border Collie vs. Aussie" debate, but I had to ask.

I've seen BCs doing agility and they seem to be lightning fast. I haven't seen many Aussies though. Are they as athletic and as fast as BCs? (probably a silly question)

If I get an Aussie I want to compete in a dog sport. Possibly even obedience.

The only thing that I am concerned with is that I read that some Aussies can be dominant. I'm not exactly a hard person and have never really had a dominant dog. Is this just with some Aussies?

... anyway, I think I'm rambling now.

So I will ask you Aussie or BC lovers, what makes you love your breed? And what exactly makes these breeds "different" then each other?

Cheers!

[dancinbcs]

I have many friends who have owned trained, trialled and shown both. Physically Aussies are bigger, heavier with less body length, all of which is a disadvantage in top level agility. The really serious agility enthusiasts breed Borders to be even lighter in bone and body than the show dogs to get an advantage in agility. It depends if you want to compete just for titles or if you really want to win trials.

Borders are smarter and learn faster (not just my opinion, but from several very experienced trainers of both) but are more likely to think up their own variations to exercises when they get bored so can be more challenging to trial unless you have a really good sense of humour. Aussies can be a bit calmer and slower, except when they play with each other. Aussies like to play kamakaze and run into each other at full pelt. It is never a good idea to run Borders and Aussies together because the Borders do not appreciate Aussie games.

Aussies can be more forceful because they are a multi purpose herder for both cattle and sheep while Borders are primarily sheep dogs. Both breeds should be happy, friendly, confident, outgoing and biddable. Coats are similar with the Aussies being a lttle shorter and denser and the Border more likely to have longer feathering.

Health wise both should be hip and elbow scored and DNA tested for CEA. Borders need DNA tests for CL and TNS while Aussies need annual eye tests for several other conditions. I think Aussies may also have a couple of other health issues that need to be watched for bit cannot remember what they are at present.

Males of either breed are basically one person dogs, with the females a bit more likely to spread their affection around. My male Borders have always been totally devoted to me and like to be as close to me as possible at all times. Dominant and submissive dogs can be found in both breeds.

I know and admire many lovely Aussies but they just don't compare to Borders for devotion and intelligence.

Edited July 14, 2010 by dancinbcs

[bedazzledx2]

I have both and agree with most of what you are saying except my Aussie is more loyal and more devoted to me than my Border. For agility I would be looking for a smaller lighter framed BC but my Aussie outshines my BC in Obedience. Both are have their O Ch titles and the BC was quicker to teach but like my Kelpie, he thought up his own variations whilst the Aussie is a very literal dog and pretty much reflects my training. If I'm wrong so is he and he is happy to say 'you got it wrong and I'll wait until you get it right'!!! By then the others would have figured out 5 different ways to do the job! My Aussie is not stupid...just different to train. They don't do well with harsh old fashioned training methods and love positive reward training. That is true of most breeds but my BC has a much stronger personality and although I don't correction train, he would cope better than the Aussie. Aussies are clowns and you have to have a sense of humor to own one. They also have an off switch which is nice.

I have many friends who have owned trained, trialled and shown both. Physically Aussies are bigger, heavier with less body length, all of which is a disadvantage in top level agility. The really serious agility enthusiasts breed Borders to be even lighter in bone and body than the show dogs to get an advantage in agility. It depends if you want to compete just for titles or if you really want to win trials.

Borders are smarter and learn faster (not just my opinion, but from several very experienced trainers of both) but are more likely to think up their own variations to exercises when they get bored so can be more challenging to trial unless you have a really good sense of humour. Aussies can be a bit calmer and slower, except when they play with each other. Aussies like to play kamakaze and run into each other at full pelt. It is never a good idea to run Borders and Aussies together because the Borders do not appreciate Aussie games.

Aussies can be more forceful because they are a multi purpose herder for both cattle and sheep while Borders are primarily sheep dogs. Both breeds should be happy, friendly, confident, outgoing and biddable. Coats are similar with the Aussies being a lttle shorter and denser and the Border more likely to have longer feathering.

Health wise both should be hip and elbow scored and DNA tested for CEA. Borders need DNA tests for CL and TNS while Aussies need annual eye tests for several other conditions. I think Aussies may also have a couple of other health issues that need to be watched for bit cannot remember what they are at present.

Males of either breed are basically one person dogs, with the females a bit more likely to spread their affection around. My male Borders have always been totally devoted to me and like to be as close to me as possible at all times. Dominant and submissive dogs can be found in both breeds.

I know and admire many lovely Aussies but they just don't compare to Borders for devotion and intelligence.

[shortstep]

Just wanted to clarify this and several other statements made.

World wide there are two different types of border collies, this is very true in Australia.

Working border collies are the original breed and in it's original form. To be great sheepdogs they need to be fleet of foot, agile, athletic, good shoulders, long necks, level backs, intelligent, very biddable to the handlers wishes, and willing to get the job done and never give up, they also need move stock using eye (which is one area that makes them very different to aussies in agility).

The term off switch is not used by working dog people, this is a term of pet people and sports people. Nothing requires a working border collie to restless, unable to be calm or control it's self. In fact being restless, mindless and unable to control it's self would be a very poor dog on the farm. This is something often labled on to working dogs and is not founded in truth.

There is much much more to know about working border collies, but the over all emphasis in the breeding programs of a working border collie is a dog that can work with the handler to get the work done and everything involved in reaching that goal. World wide it is much more likely to be working border collies that you will see excelling in agility.

The second type of border collie is the show bred border collie, now many many generations away from their working cousins. The over all emphasis is to breed a dog to the physical standard. They are bigger and heavier than the working dogs. They look and in many ways behave differently to working dogs.

So in effect, you need to look at the show border collie, the working border collie and the aussie as 3 separate breeds in your quest to find the right dog for your desire to do performance activities.

Most border collies in the ANKC are show bred. There are a few imported working dogs (look for ISDS references) in the ANKC. Most other working border collies will be registered into the State sheepdog registers and can be Associate registered in the ANKC.

Best of luck

Edited July 14, 2010 by shortstep

[aussielover]

Even though I am an aussie person, I would say a border is likely to be a better choice if you want to be competitive at agility. I would get one from proven agility or working lines though. For obedience, I personally think any breed can be competitive, it more depends on the trainer.

I don't think aussies are more dominant though but obviously it depends on the individual dog. My lab is way more dominant than my aussie was.

I have found aussies to be a bit more laid back and not as obsessive as Borders. They also have a very different herding style, if you wanted to get into trialling. They are easy to train and a bit more easygoing (imo).

Both are great dogs, if you want to do dog sports like agility, most of the top level dogs are borders or kelpies, so something to think about...

[shortstep]

I have many friends who have owned trained, trialled and shown both. Physically Aussies are bigger, heavier with less body length, all of which is a disadvantage in top level agility. The really serious agility enthusiasts breed Borders to be even lighter in bone and body than the show dogs to get an advantage in agility. It depends if you want to compete just for titles or if you really want to win trials.

Borders are smarter and learn faster (not just my opinion, but from several very experienced trainers of both) but are more likely to think up their own variations to exercises when they get bored so can be more challenging to trial unless you have a really good sense of humour. Aussies can be a bit calmer and slower, except when they play with each other. Aussies like to play kamakaze and run into each other at full pelt. It is never a good idea to run Borders and Aussies together because the Borders do not appreciate Aussie games.

Aussies can be more forceful because they are a multi purpose herder for both cattle and sheep while Borders are primarily sheep dogs. Both breeds should be happy, friendly, confident, outgoing and biddable. Coats are similar with the Aussies being a lttle shorter and denser and the Border more likely to have longer feathering.

Health wise both should be hip and elbow scored and DNA tested for CEA. Borders need DNA tests for CL and TNS while Aussies need annual eye tests for several other conditions. I think Aussies may also have a couple of other health issues that need to be watched for bit cannot remember what they are at present.

Males of either breed are basically one person dogs, with the females a bit more likely to spread their affection around. My male Borders have always been totally devoted to me and like to be as close to me as possible at all times. Dominant and submissive dogs can be found in both breeds.

I know and admire many lovely Aussies but they just don't compare to Borders for devotion and intelligence.

There is so much missinformation in this post I can not let it go.

1. World wide, border collies are the breed of choice for cattle work. More border collies work cattle world wide (and in Australia) than any other breed. Your statements about border collies use of force and working cattle are unfounded and in accurate. The most expensive working dog ever sold at a sale (over $23000.00 US) was a working border collie for cattle work at the Red Bluff Bull and Dog sale.

Look around the web a bit to educate your self on this topic. Here is just one local (of many thousands of border collie breeders for cattle work world wide) http://www.datawave.net.au/~djsims/

2. Border collies do not go off course in agility because of their temperaments or intelligence. They go off course because their handler is not mentally fast enough to tell them where to go in time or their handler is not smart enough to train the dog and the most frequent reason border collies go off course because their handler spends most of their time blameing the dog instead of seeing they are the root of the problem!

In fact border collies have a tremendous ability to follow direction, see and differentiate handler cues and also make independent decisions when needed. this is one of many reasons they excel in agility.

3. Border collies are not less calm than aussies. Aussies used to be known as the bouncing balls as they are prone to bounce around and bark at you when you run them in agility. (This is their working style, upright loosed eyed, bounce and bark). Contrast this to the working border collie style of work which is quite, steady and deliberate, commonly refered to as stealth in appearance.

Edited July 14, 2010 by shortstep

[poodlefan]

So in effect, you need to look at the show border collie, the working border collie and the aussie as 3 separate breeds in your quest to find the right dog for your desire to do performance activities.

There are also working line Aussies in this country and they bear a very strong resemblance to the working BCs - much lighter and leaner, far more drive.

If you're interested in working line BCs for agility, PM Vickie. She'll tell you that unless you are a very good handler, you won't get the best from one. For every one that wins, there will be another barking and spinning in frustration because its handler cannot cue it fast or accurately enough around a course. I think there are easier dogs for a novice handler but I'll defer to Vickie on that.

No point in owning the Ferrari of the agility world if you're not capable of driving like Michael Schumacher.

Edited July 14, 2010 by poodlefan

[wuffles]

Despite slight differences in the GENERAL temperament of the two breeds, from what I have seen there is a lot of overlap between them and big differences between individuals.

I chose an Aussie because I like the stockier build, I like that they tend to be clowns, and I like that they don't seem to have the intensity that most BCs have. I want to do obedience/agility but as a beginner, don't care if it's not the most competitive dog in the world, I just want to have fun and learn. And my girl sure is a lot of fun and LOVES to learn

My girl gets on fabulously with another DOLers BC of the same age and they seem to have similar energy levels.

To be honest I think you'd be happy with either, they are both lovely breeds and are a joy to train.

[Kavik]

So in effect, you need to look at the show border collie, the working border collie and the aussie as 3 separate breeds in your quest to find the right dog for your desire to do performance activities.

There are also working line Aussies in this country and they bear a very strong resemblance to the working BCs - much lighter and leaner, far more drive.

If you're interested in working line BCs for agility, PM Vickie. She'll tell you that unless you are a very good handler, you won't get the best from one. For every one that wins, there will be another barking and spinning in frustration because its handler cannot cue it fast or accurately enough around a course. I think there are easier dogs for a novice handler but I'll defer to Vickie on that.

No point in owning the Ferrari of the agility world if you're not capable of driving like Michael Schumacher.

I agree with poodlefan.

I saw my first working Aussie at my agility club recently. Looked very different to others I have seen, I thought it was a Koolie at first.

Over the weekend I did two ANKC agility trials and the opportunity to watch a lot of different dogs and handlers and styles. There are a lot of great dogs (of several top agility breeds) that bark and spin at their handler, including several Border Collies.

I think breed is a personal preference thing. Some interesting discussions on the weekend with other competitors about people who had switched breeds to Border Collies from their first preference to be more competitive, and some of them now have the barking and spinning dogs.

I think a first time agility competitor can do well with a Border Collie or other top breed you just have to be prepared to put the work in with your training and handling.

[poodlefan]

I think breed is a personal preference thing. Some interesting discussions on the weekend with other competitors about people who had switched breeds to Border Collies from their first preference to be more competitive, and some of them now have the barking and spinning dogs.

Personally I'd always recommend buying the breed you love and doing what you can with it. There are those few who buy working BCs because they think the dog alone can make them win and they usually get a rude shock about those expectations. These are hair trigger response dogs - your training, your contact criteria and your handling have to be spot on to drive one well.

If for some reason you cannot do dog sports with the dog you own I(think career ending injury or unsoundness), you'd sure as hell need to want to live with it come rain or shine. A working BC or other herding breed is a big commitment in terms of providing appropriate stimulation for the dog. Talk to those who have them and do right by them before you make the commitment.

Edited July 14, 2010 by poodlefan

[leopuppy04]

have many friends who have owned trained, trialled and shown both. Physically Aussies are bigger, heavier with less body length, all of which is a disadvantage in top level agility.

This is correct, and you can’t argue with this. Aussies that are longer and leaner obviously do better. BUT there are still Aussies that compete at top level agility that do very well… the difference you have to look at here are sheer numbers – eg: how many BC’s are bred per year per Aussies and also the fact that we have basically only imported ‘show’ Aussies – not working Aussies, who would give the BC’s a good run for their money (have a look in the states results and the Aussies are doing very well over there.... yes even over some 'working BC's).

The really serious agility enthusiasts breed Borders to be even lighter in bone and body than the show dogs to get an advantage in agility. It depends if you want to compete just for titles or if you really want to win trials.

Yes, people are breeding BC’s for the agility ring too. I think that ‘show bred’ BC’s are ‘just as good as’ and ‘just as fast as’ the ‘show bred’ Aussies. So it’s a bit of a trade off – you breed for speed, you loose what others are looking for in the 'show ring'. In both breeds, I’d like to keep both there, and some people have been able to achieve that.

Borders are smarter and learn faster (not just my opinion, but from several very experienced trainers of both) but are more likely to think up their own variations to exercises when they get bored so can be more challenging to trial unless you have a really good sense of humour.

Maybe so – but I disagree (Although we could use the argument that we each think our breed is smarter ). I have a couple of really quick thinkers at home (both Aussies, mother and daughter) and I doubt any BC could pick things up faster than they do. However, you add Leo to the mix, and he can be thick as mince sometimes and therefore, this statement there would stand true . I think that Aussies however don’t ‘second guess’ their owners and therefore are less likely to come up with their own course

Aussies can be a bit calmer and slower, except when they play with each other. Aussies like to play kam akaze and run into each other at full pelt. It is never a good idea to run Borders and Aussies together because the Borders do not appreciate Aussie games.

Definitely! It all comes down to what they were bred to do. Aussies work close to the sheep/ cattle’s heel so are supposed to be calm and steady while working them. BC’s work at a distance and are bred for speed and to run masses of distances to keep the sheep/ cattle together. That’s where the difference in play style, their general living arrangements and how they work comes into play (Aussies can be massive Velcro dogs, BC’s like their space).

I think that BC’s can learn to love Aussie games (and vice versa) though and have mixed them well together

Health wise both should be hip and elbow scored and DNA tested for CEA. Borders need DNA tests for CL and TNS while Aussies need annual eye tests for several other conditions. I think Aussies may also have a couple of other health issues that need to be watched for bit cannot remember what they are at present.

Aussies should have Hips and Elbows done, DNA testing for CEA, HC and MDR1. Eye tests should be done at 6-8wks of age.

Males of either breed are basically one person dogs, with the females a bit more likely to spread their affection around. My male Borders have always been totally devoted to me and like to be as close to me as possible at all times. Dominant and submissive dogs can be found in both breeds

.

Disagree. I think in Aussies the Males are DEFINITELY social butterflys as all the females I know are more likely to be only interested in their owners/ more reserved or suspicious of strangers, whereas they boys couldn’t give two hoots. I find this even if they are very social individuals when people come to the house, the girls hang back probably thinking 'I don't know you, but I will get to know you ' Whereas the boys don't give it a 2nd thought!

I know and admire many lovely Aussies but they just don't compare to Borders for devotion and intelligence.

Said by the lover of a BC. Insert BC where she put Aussie and Aussie where she puts BC and that would be my statement ;-)

ROFL

At the end of the day, it all comes down to preference. Before I found the Aussies I had my heart set on a BC. I love their work ethic and maybe one day I'll own one. There can be a lot of cross over in the breeds - I've looked after a friends couple of BCs and one borders on insanity (haha - even BC lovers appreciate her 'needs' ) and the other is your typical BC, who is VERY close in personality to my Aussie. Another friend has probably one of the fastest BC's in the state and did very well at Nationals with her, but at home you could probably mistake her temperament for an Aussie (quiet as a mouse and a real cuddler).

At the end of the day for me though the Aussies won out. I see differences such as the Aussies are more 'social' in the sense that they LOVE physical contact and will either sleep ontop of you or ontop of each other - wheras the BC's I know are not like that. They like their personal space (think again to herding style ). I love the Aussie's attitude. We often joke amongst friends that the Aussies work hard, play hard, and always have a good joke up their sleeve. But the BC's take their work very seriously

The Aussies are my heart breed. I just love everything about them . But I'll be the first to admit that with the Aussies we have in Australia, it's MUCH harder work to get them to the top agility level (say winning everything etc) and to get them to run faster than the BC's. But... they can be steady consistent and competitive workers in the agility ring . In fact the 2nd or 3rd dog to gain their Ag CH in Victoria was none other than a lovely Aussie . But you see some of those crazy fast BC's - and I just don't think an Aussie could beat that :D. I will say that they tend to be more consistent workers though.

As for in the obedience ring.... you can't tell me the BC's are better than the Aussies - 'aint that right Bedazzled .

I might have a BC one day. But the Aussies will always be the breed for me :D

Edited July 14, 2010 by leopuppy04

[shortstep]

Need to clear up a few things again about working border collies.

In regards to border collies and being social. Put yourself on the paddock, you have 2000 sheep to bring in and you are using 4 dogs. Do you want them visit with each other, perhaps have play in the paddock? or do you want them to ignore the other dogs and listen intently for your commands? Working border collies are bred to ignor other dogs in the work setting and this is why.

Border collies should ignore other dogs when in all work setting, including sports. Some people call this focus, some call it attention, but in fact it is the skill needed on the paddock every day to stay on task. However when not at work, they are social with their own family of dogs or dogs they have made friends with. They should not be aggressive to other dogs and should never go looking for other dogs to interact with, as again they should stay on task. However many are irritated by social dogs that bother them when they are working. Because owners often do not understand their dog's inbred need to stay on task or they want their dog to be something it is not, they try to force their dog to be social or ignore the signals it does not want to be social and leave the dog to fend for it's self and make decisions, this can lead to dogs that may end up snarling or snapping to make other dogs leave them alone.

Working border collies are very much loving and affectionate towards their owners. The breed as whole is this way, however their are always exceptions.

They can be one man dogs but many will work happily for any one who is competent to handle them.

They should ignore other people in a work settings and will be indifferent or friendly in non work settings, they should not be nervous or aggressive in any towards humans.

Edited July 15, 2010 by shortstep

[JulesP]

Short Step much of what you say is true for my 'show' bred borders too.

As for Aussie vs Border. Well they are both great breeds and I don't think the OP will go too far wrong with either as long as they are prepared to do the training.

I've got borders but get to hang out with a lot of Aussies at herding and really like both breeds.

The working Aussies I know don't look like Coolies. They are a bit lighter but more the frame of a show border then a coolie.

Agility or obedience I would go for either breed. Herding I would go for a border, simply because I love how they herd.

[leopuppy04]

Maybe I didn't read posts

properly but I don't think anyone ever said that bcs were not social or affectionate to their family????

I think any working breed is bredto have a high work ethic and I don't see many Aussies running off to play with others on task (well I've never had that issue with mine )

but if you were referring to my comments I wasn't saying as a negative bit more highlighting different play styles. Nothing right or wrong about either

Edited July 15, 2010 by leopuppy04

[Gayle.]

Benson is bred from mainly working lines. He definitely doesn't look like a Koolie but he also looks different to most Aussies. He is big and broad though, not light framed at all. Working lines is a bit of a misnomer for him. Never done a days work in his life, is terrified of sheep, has been known to leave the obedience ring to play with other dogs and is quite the nicest dog I've ever met.

[shortstep]

The working Aussies I know don't look like Coolies. They are a bit lighter but more the frame of a show border then a coolie.

I think 'working' aussie these days means a dog not bred for show ring, they might do some pet herding, sports, companion dogs, service dogs things like that.

The original cattle working aussie I owned at one time (mid late 1960's) were totally different to today's "working aussies". They were the same size a working border collie, light weight and very agile. Other than there working style and the docked tail they were not much different to working border collies.

An old friend who had owned and bred working aussies in the 1960's through early 80's, he left the breed in the 80's. He said 10 years of show breeding in ASCA had taken it's toll on the breed. There were very few dogs being bred for real work anymore, the breed had changed into a pet/companion, show and sports dog. Those who have them now can disagree with this, it was just my life experience in southern California with cattle and horses being a big part of my life at that time. Prior to them being a registered breed for show ring in ASCA and prior to them going into the Kennel clubs. Gees I am getting old.

[poodlefan]

The working Aussies I know don't look like Coolies. They are a bit lighter but more the frame of a show border then a coolie.

I think 'working' aussie these days means a dog not bred for show ring, they might do some pet herding, sports, companion dogs, service dogs things like that.

The "working" Aussie my friend has comes from working herding lines new to the country. The breed does work O/S.

[Gayle.]

Bensons heritage is from some of the original working Aussie kennels in the US. He looks a lot more like their current dogs than what's being currently shown here in Australia.

[JulesP]

The working Aussie I am particularly thinking about was also imported.

[dancinbcs]

I have many friends who have owned trained, trialled and shown both. Physically Aussies are bigger, heavier with less body length, all of which is a disadvantage in top level agility. The really serious agility enthusiasts breed Borders to be even lighter in bone and body than the show dogs to get an advantage in agility. It depends if you want to compete just for titles or if you really want to win trials.

Borders are smarter and learn faster (not just my opinion, but from several very experienced trainers of both) but are more likely to think up their own variations to exercises when they get bored :p so can be more challenging to trial unless you have a really good sense of humour. Aussies can be a bit calmer and slower, except when they play with each other. Aussies like to play kamakaze and run into each other at full pelt. It is never a good idea to run Borders and Aussies together because the Borders do not appreciate Aussie games.

Aussies can be more forceful because they are a multi purpose herder for both cattle and sheep while Borders are primarily sheep dogs. Both breeds should be happy, friendly, confident, outgoing and biddable. Coats are similar with the Aussies being a lttle shorter and denser and the Border more likely to have longer feathering.

Health wise both should be hip and elbow scored and DNA tested for CEA. Borders need DNA tests for CL and TNS while Aussies need annual eye tests for several other conditions. I think Aussies may also have a couple of other health issues that need to be watched for bit cannot remember what they are at present.

Males of either breed are basically one person dogs, with the females a bit more likely to spread their affection around. My male Borders have always been totally devoted to me and like to be as close to me as possible at all times. Dominant and submissive dogs can be found in both breeds.

I know and admire many lovely Aussies but they just don't compare to Borders for devotion and intelligence.

There is so much missinformation in this post I can not let it go.

And I cannot let that sort of arrogant reply go either. Your experience is obviously with current working line Borders, mine is with a variety of show, agility, obedience and some working dogs. There was no misinformation in my post but my observations over many years and comments from experienced trainers who have owned and trained both breeds in a variety of disiplines.

1. World wide, border collies are the breed of choice for cattle work. More border collies work cattle world wide (and in Australia) than any other breed. Your statements about border collies use of force and working cattle are unfounded and in accurate. The most expensive working dog ever sold at a sale (over $23000.00 US) was a working border collie for cattle work at the Red Bluff Bull and Dog sale.

Look around the web a bit to educate your self on this topic. Here is just one local (of many thousands of border collie breeders for cattle work world wide) http://www.datawave.net.au/~djsims/

I was refering to the origins of the breeds not what they are used for today and no one can deny that Borders originated as sheep dogs in the UK, while Aussies where developed in th USA as multi purpose herders. Our show, obedience and agility line Borders in Australia are descended from sheep dogs.

2. Border collies do not go off course in agility because of their temperaments or intelligence. They go off course because their handler is not mentally fast enough to tell them where to go in time or their handler is not smart enough to train the dog and the most frequent reason border collies go off course because their handler spends most of their time blameing the dog instead of seeing they are the root of the problem!

In fact border collies have a tremendous ability to follow direction, see and differentiate handler cues and also make independent decisions when needed. this is one of many reasons they excel in agility.

Nowhere did I mention dogs going off course in agility but if they do it can be because the handler gave them the wrong cue or because the dog thought of a more interesting way to do it. I was actually refering to obedience trials where Borders often anticipate or do things a bit different to break up the boredom. It is usually the dogs most likely to score the highest that do it. They can be brilliant or bomb out spectacularly, but are less likely to be consistently average.

When working stock they follow direction perfectly but heeling around an obedience ring can be boring and this leads to them doing their own thing at times.

3. Border collies are not less calm than aussies. Aussies used to be known as the bouncing balls as they are prone to bounce around and bark at you when you run them in agility. (This is their working style, upright loosed eyed, bounce and bark). Contrast this to the working border collie style of work which is quite, steady and deliberate, commonly refered to as stealth in appearance.

All the Aussies I know seem to be less likely than the Borders to be on their toes ready for action. I have seen plenty of Borders bounce around, bark and even nip their owners clothes when working in agility, especially those from agility lines, but have never seen an Aussie do it. Maybe some do it and I just haven't seen them because there are not nearly as many competing and the ones I do know that compete are from Aussie show lines. Some Borders are steady, deliberate and work with stealth as they should, but many are not when it comes to agility.

Temperaments and energy levels vary a lot in individual dogs of both breeds, from lounge lizards to hyper but overall I see more easy going Aussies and friends that have owned both have commented that Aussies live life at a slower pace than the Borders.