Some Small Successes For Puppy

[koalathebear]

Yeah, he is off again next week.... I think you are right. I will stick with being top dog! What is frustrating though, is that she won't listen to him. But even in class the other day, I walked off and left them to it (so to speak) and she kept looking at me on the the other side of the park the whole time!! I ended up rotating back in, just so she would do as she is told.

Is it normal for a puppy to only take direction from their master and no one else? This is what concerns me, as I would like for her to listen to others also.

Like wuffles said, the dog should be taking instructions from all in the household but it can be tricky if OH is away on work etc. Things you could do are, when he's back - he takes over the mealtime training sessions and you have him practising making her wait while he goes through doorways first etc. Just little things to emphasise to her that He Also Matters

We actually have a similar thing to you. We always attend class together but Elbie is more used to seeing me on the sidelines. Sometimes he fusses, but generally he's calm even if he sees me across the field. The same doesn't go for when OH is far away - Elbie will fret and whimper so part of the reason we're going to share handler duties for silver class is to get Elbie used to seeing both of us Far Away ...

[aussielover]

Yeah, he is off again next week.... I think you are right. I will stick with being top dog! What is frustrating though, is that she won't listen to him. But even in class the other day, I walked off and left them to it (so to speak) and she kept looking at me on the the other side of the park the whole time!! I ended up rotating back in, just so she would do as she is told.

Is it normal for a puppy to only take direction from their master and no one else? This is what concerns me, as I would like for her to listen to others also.

Like wuffles said, the dog should be taking instructions from all in the household but it can be tricky if OH is away on work etc. Things you could do are, when he's back - he takes over the mealtime training sessions and you have him practising making her wait while he goes through doorways first etc. Just little things to emphasise to her that He Also Matters

We actually have a similar thing to you. We always attend class together but Elbie is more used to seeing me on the sidelines. Sometimes he fusses, but generally he's calm even if he sees me across the field. The same doesn't go for when OH is far away - Elbie will fret and whimper so part of the reason we're going to share handler duties for silver class is to get Elbie used to seeing both of us Far Away ...

My puppy won't "work" for anyone in my family except for me. But she will respond to commands such as get down and no and she will of course sit for food, wait for her meal etc with other family members.

She will work for her puppy school teacher and guide dog trainers, so i'm not really concerned. though i think the person has to be confident and serious about the training otherwise, no way will the dog listen, they are not stupid

[Genabee]

My puppy won't "work" for anyone in my family except for me. But she will respond to commands such as get down and no and she will of course sit for food, wait for her meal etc with other family members.

She will work for her puppy school teacher and guide dog trainers, so i'm not really concerned. though i think the person has to be confident and serious about the training otherwise, no way will the dog listen, they are not stupid

I think this is probably more what my issue is... Defiant little sh*t!

[Vader's mum]

Oh I'm glad I started reading this thread, we are going to have the same problem OH is FIFO and he thought there was already issues with the pecking order so wllbe very interesting to see how he goes when he comes back. But as you all have suggested I think I will get him to take over feeding time and some training too. It shall be interesting.

Oh and my small success, Kenobi slept through the night no accident! Well I set my alarms and didnt wake up for them but I dadnt hear him either I expected the worse was pleasently surprised!

[Genabee]

Oh I'm glad I started reading this thread, we are going to have the same problem OH is FIFO and he thought there was already issues with the pecking order so wllbe very interesting to see how he goes when he comes back. But as you all have suggested I think I will get him to take over feeding time and some training too. It shall be interesting.

Oh and my small success, Kenobi slept through the night no accident! Well I set my alarms and didnt wake up for them but I dadnt hear him either I expected the worse was pleasently surprised!

It is a nice feeling isn't it!

[Max#1]

Interesting question about pack dynamics.

Like many, I'm the primary 'trainer', 'command giver', 'walker', 'feeder' etc. (OH works long long long hours).

BUT!!!!! My OH has all the authority *somehow*. For example, Max is happy to follow me around, but as soon as OH comes home from work (usually quite late), then he can really settle. If I say 'no' or 'off', its obeyed, but not as enthusiastically as if my OH says it. A dog trainer explained to my OH how to make the 'grrrrr' noise to stop puppies from biting/being naughty. I can't make that noise, no matter how much I try, and usually just spur Max on to further excitement. When my OH did it, all naughty behaviour ceased immediately!

Also, its come home greetings. I get launched at (I turn my back and ignore until puppy has settled down, getting better these days) - without even trying, Max rolls at my OH's feet when he walks in the door. What is with that?????

I think it must be my OH's deep voice and that he's quite tall. Imagine what he could do if he could harness that power.......!!!!!! (For good of course!).

[Marley'z Mum]

Interesting question about pack dynamics.

Like many, I'm the primary 'trainer', 'command giver', 'walker', 'feeder' etc. (OH works long long long hours).

BUT!!!!! My OH has all the authority *somehow*. For example, Max is happy to follow me around, but as soon as OH comes home from work (usually quite late), then he can really settle. If I say 'no' or 'off', its obeyed, but not as enthusiastically as if my OH says it. A dog trainer explained to my OH how to make the 'grrrrr' noise to stop puppies from biting/being naughty. I can't make that noise, no matter how much I try, and usually just spur Max on to further excitement. When my OH did it, all naughty behaviour ceased immediately!

Also, its come home greetings. I get launched at (I turn my back and ignore until puppy has settled down, getting better these days) - without even trying, Max rolls at my OH's feet when he walks in the door. What is with that?????

I think it must be my OH's deep voice and that he's quite tall. Imagine what he could do if he could harness that power.......!!!!!! (For good of course!).

same issue in my house

I am primary feeder, walker, trainer OH works long hours also..... but it is clear that Marley is OH's dog, he speaks and Marley listens simple as that, if he is off the lead with OH he stays close if he looks like he is gunna run off OH calls him and he comes back.... with me he would just run off no matter what I say lol

[Vader's mum]

Oh I'm glad I started reading this thread, we are going to have the same problem OH is FIFO and he thought there was already issues with the pecking order so wllbe very interesting to see how he goes when he comes back. But as you all have suggested I think I will get him to take over feeding time and some training too. It shall be interesting.

Oh and my small success, Kenobi slept through the night no accident! Well I set my alarms and didnt wake up for them but I dadnt hear him either I expected the worse was pleasently surprised!

It is a nice feeling isn't it!

God yes but he's only been here a week so I am looking at it as a one off and then I can be surprised if it happens again! And we got a sleep in almost 8am, but thats because I wanted one haha

[whiskedaway]

I have the same problem. While I do all training with Akira, she won't listen to me like she listens to OH. Very annoying!

My success today is that Akira has spent the day following around my Dad like he's her favourite person. For everyone else, this wouldn't be exciting, but Akira is afraid of men, and because my dad is a big man she's always been afraid of him. So for him to have broken the ice with her is VERY exciting.

[Vader's mum]

Well since I'm home alone and OH didnt call tonight I have to share that kenobi took himself out to the toilet TWICE today!! Im so impressed first time was his own doing no promts from me second time I saw the sniffing I said toilet and he went out alone so impressed with my little man!

[aussielover]

Well since I'm home alone and OH didnt call tonight I have to share that kenobi took himself out to the toilet TWICE today!! Im so impressed first time was his own doing no promts from me second time I saw the sniffing I said toilet and he went out alone so impressed with my little man!

What a good little boy!

The breeder must have been doing some good groundwork work with him

[koalathebear]

Small win. When Elbie gets into the heel position, he does a kind of wild and spastic leap to get there. Sometimes it's extremely athletic and he almost spins around in the air. I have to admit that we thought it was very extremely hilarious to watch so we never bothered to try to correct him if he ended up in the right spot ...

The problem was that today during his training session, the teacher was quite strict so when Elbie did his spazzy jump in the air, from where she was standing it looked like he was jumping up onto me and that I wasn't correcting him for it. She told me I should be correcting him for jumping up on me and walking away if he did it twice. I kind of bleated; "He's not jumping up - that's how he gets into position."

So that it doesn't happen again when we have class, we tried to make him more sedate in getting into position. We worked out that if he tries to get into position directly, he can't help himself jumping but that if he goes around us, he will do it calmly. So we lured him the first couple of times until he got it right.

It seems like a very small thing but it felt like a big win because Elbie was so eager to try to get it right and he was very winsome in the way he kept looking at us, as if to say: "Did I do it right that time???" :D

We filmed his progress. Video

. Edited October 9, 2010 by koalathebear

[Clastic]

Wow KTB thats fantastic!! Elbie is so adorably cute! Mars and I really have to work on heeling, he doesn't actually know what heel means.. :D

[koalathebear]

Wow KTB thats fantastic!! Elbie is so adorably cute! Mars and I really have to work on heeling, he doesn't actually know what heel means.. :D

Thanks. He really does try very hard to please us and we can see all the effort he puts into things. From what I saw, Mars was very good with his sits and drops and he was in position. You guys didn't get reprimanded! :p

As for heeling ... OH and I are new to dog training so we had no idea what heeling/heelwork was until recently. We didn't even know there was a difference between heeling and loose-lead walking until recently. :p Then for the formal stuff, there's a lot of stuff about posture, positioning, how your hands are, are you facing east, whether the moon is in the Seventh House and Jupiter Aligns with Mars ... :D

We only found out the difference between formal recall and informal recall a few weeks ago. I don't think either OH or I are destined to go very far in the world of dog-training once we get Elbie to be a well-behaved and calm dog.

Edited October 9, 2010 by koalathebear

[Clastic]

Wow KTB thats fantastic!! Elbie is so adorably cute! Mars and I really have to work on heeling, he doesn't actually know what heel means.. :D

Thanks. He really does try very hard to please us and we can see all the effort he puts into things. From what I saw, Mars was very good with his sits and drops and he was in position. You guys didn't get reprimanded!

As for heeling ... OH and I are new to dog training so we had no idea what heeling/heelwork was until recently. We didn't even know there was a difference between heeling and loose-lead walking until recently. :p Then for the formal stuff, there's a lot of stuff about posture, positioning, how your hands are, are you facing east, whether the moon is in the Seventh House and Jupiter Aligns with Mars ... :D

We only found out the difference between formal recall and informal recall a couple of weeks ago. I don't think either OH or I are destined to go very far in the world of dog-training once we get Elbie to be a well-behaved and calm dog.

Hehe, he was probably only in position because I still lure him... :p He used to be ok, but I never used the word 'heel' so he doesn't do it automatically when I say it. Mars really needs hand gestures for commands, if I just say the 'word' he'll look at me with a blank stare.

I told OH about being told that 'ok' isn't the best word to use as a release word and he just shrugged at me. *sigh*

I'm pretty sure that we won't be going far with our training.. I'm just happy if we get to silver. I don't know the difference between a formal recall and informal recall... *starts googling...*

[koalathebear]

Hehe, he was probably only in position because I still lure him... :p He used to be ok, but I never used the word 'heel' so he doesn't do it automatically when I say it. Mars really needs hand gestures for commands, if I just say the 'word' he'll look at me with a blank stare.

I told OH about being told that 'ok' isn't the best word to use as a release word and he just shrugged at me. *sigh*

I'm pretty sure that we won't be going far with our training.. I'm just happy if we get to silver. I don't know the difference between a formal recall and informal recall... *starts googling...*

It's not too late to get him to respond to the word. Just lure him into position and name it 'heel' ... after x number of times he'll figure it out because he's such a smart cookie - you saw how responsive he was today to the 'car training'.

As for hand signals - we taught those to Elbie because someone said it could be handy if the dog goes deaf when it's old but they're definitely useful even now when he can hear. :D It's great if Mars responds to hand signals - you can train all the equivalent voice commands, too in time.

I wasn't too fussed about the 'ok' thing .. :p While I could see how a dog could be accidentally released by an accidental 'ok', we would never have Elbie offlead or on a loose leash at a roadside to be accidentally released ... Also, it's the release word that works for him so we'll just stick to it. We've also been told that "good boy" isn't good as his marker word, but Elbie's smart and he knows when he's being praised for something he's done and when we're just saying he's a good boy - you can see it in his eyes.

I only found out what an informal recall was when I mentioned something we had to do in class and wuffles called it an informal release. Basically the formal recall is when you get the dog to stay, you walk away and call it to you. Informal is when the dog's wandering away from you amidst distractions and you call it back. For us, we think the formal release is way easier.

We're expecting Elbie to probably need to repeat silver - maturity wise and also skills-wise. That's fine because if gold is mostly trialling work, it's probably not going to be that useful for us and we might look to agility at that time and probably just beef up on the behavioural training stuff like we are doing in our Saturday classes. There's also herding with those seven sheep. :D Obedience trialling doesn't look 'fun' for us and I don't think Elbie will ever have the temperament to go marching placidly around a field, heeling, sitting and dropping like that ...

Mars and Pepper herding together would be so cute.

ETA: Because you've got two dogs, do you use two different marker words and two different release words so that they don't get confused? I'd find that really confusing because with Elbie even when I want to use the clicker, sometimes I just automatically say: 'good boy!' when he does something good. I've heard that clicker training can be confusing with two dogs so wondered about the marker word thing.

Speaking of funny marker words, there's a lady at Dog School who'swhose marker word is: "SWEET!!!!" and her "drop" command is: "Lie lie!" So we'll hear her exclaim: "Steffy lie-lie! Sweeeet!"

Edited October 9, 2010 by koalathebear

[lilli_star]

Speaking of funny marker words, there's a lady at Dog School who's marker word is: "SWEET!!!!" and her "drop" command is: "Lie lie!" So we'll hear her exclaim: "Steffy lie-lie! Sweeeet!" :D

I got a mental image of Cartman from south Park when I read that :D

[wuffles]

I would be loving the enthusiastic flip to heel!!! Embrace the enthusiasm!!!

Obedience trialling doesn't mean your dog has to be sedate and bored. You might have already seen them but I'll PM you some Youtube videos of enthusiastic obedience dogs from this forum... including ones who do an enthusiastic return to heel...

I use the same commands and release words with our two... I just say their names beforehand to let them know who is expected to comply :D For example if I only want one to come inside and the other to stay outside, I get them both to sit ("Ava, sit, Satchmo, sit") then just release one ("Satchmo, ok"). It generally seems to work ok... I never train them together though so I've never thought about it too hard.

I love "sweet" as a marker word, wish I'd thought of it :D

[Niques]

We filmed his progress. Video

.

Good god, that is a clever puppy! You two are awesome in your dedication :D I love the little "to position" jump

I only started using the word "heel" a few weeks ago. I tend to gesticulate and point a lot and somehow the poor dog works out what I want. James is like Mars in that words are pretty useless to him. It's only just this week, at 9 months old, that I can get him to "drop" without having to signal and this is something he's been learning for 7 months now. Meanwhile I can tell him to sit with the slightest tilt of my head :D

I love watching dog training videos on YouTube and listening to all the different marker words. I just stick with a simple "good boy" - anything else seems like too much hardwork to remember to use

[koalathebear]

Poor Elbie's had to be retrained a few times now because of the cluelessness of his owners... we used to put him in the heel position by slapping our leg. Then 2 weeks before assessment, we were given an info sheet that said: "handler must not slap leg to get dog into heel position."

:D

OH and I were going: "Uh oh ..." So that night at dinner, OH hastily retrained Elbie to go into the heel position on voice alone without the leg slap. :D I'm sure Elbie must be thinking: "Come on guys, make up your mind." It's lucky for us he usually only takes a few goes to retrain to a new word/gesture.

ETA: Randomness about words ... When Elbie was younger, i wasn't convinced that Elbie was responding to his name and was just responding to our tone of voice so I used to call out: "Bonzo!!" I always looked startled when Elbie ignored it and only responded to his name - OH was very disgusted that I was under-rating our pup's intellect.

Edited October 9, 2010 by koalathebear