Selling Dogs Overseas!

[Jennylovesdogs]

I’m a new registered member to this site however have been reading posts for a while now.

I’ve read about people and businesses that purchase pups and sell them overseas. I had never experienced this until recently when I was contacted by a very friendly female who was trying to purchase a Pug pup that I had breed. All was going well when suddenly she made an offer to buy two and then three pups? Alarm bells starting ringing. I panicked and didn’t know what to do, I told her that my pups were not for bulk buying and that I had no pups to sell her. Unfortunalty the phone has stopped ringing and I’m struggling to distinguish the difference between genuine and business faking the call to obtain one of my pups.

I hadn’t experienced such offers before however after speaking to a fellow breeder they advised me that this was common practice to wholesale puppy buyers who look to off load bulk puppies overseas.

My question here is whether anybody has experienced such tactics and are there any businesses or individuals that I need to avoid. I know it’s difficult to mention individuals by full name due to defamation, privacy etc, however business names or numbers are not illegal.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

PS This post was not created to offend breeders out there who genuinely supply there pups for overseas export. It’s just that I’ve never heard any good things about dogs being exported.

[Dame Aussie]

I'm not a breeder, but if I was, there's no way I'd sell off puppies for somone to resell....I'd want to check out the buyers myself.

[Diva]

I'm not a breeder either, but if you are a member of DOL check out the first page that comes up when you sign in - it has a list of dodgy people including some who buy for bulk export without letting on.

The people listed in the canine assocaition gazettes who have a large number of export permits issued to them are usually (maybe always) agents for overseas pet shops as well.

[oakway]

You can't tell.

Their is no way you can tell if they only purchase one puppy.

If it is required for them as a show quality, the only thing you can do is tick the box

so no export pedigree can be obtained.

Some overseas kennel clubs have not required an export pedigree and will except the certificate of registration.

[blacklabrador]

I just had an across the board rule that no pups went overseas, regardless of how genuine people seemed. I'd much prefer to sell pups as pets here than have them go overseas and never have a clue about their fate.

The only circumstance in which I would do it is with an older puppy to a registered and reputable exhibitor or breeder who was well known by other people.

[sandgrubber]

I agree there's a need to be cautious about overseas sales. But blanket bans are not good. What goes around comes around. If I lived in the US or UK (not theoretical . . . I've just moved back to the US) I would hesitate to sell to Australia because it's a long ways away, they have lots of poisonous snakes, and quarantine can be awful for a dog. Australians depend on imports to enhance and expand bloodlines for many breeds. We should do as we would be done by.

Edited July 14, 2010 by sandgrubber

[shortstep]

Dog brokers are what you are talking about and they should be avoided at all costs.

However there are very nice people who live overseas, so you need to separate the nasty activity of dog brokering from perfectly fine activity of placing a pup overseas into a good home.

Some ways to flush out and avoid brokers are:

Interview carefully all buyers.

Check references with their vet.

Visit their home, or ask someone you trust to check their home.

Speak to them at length about ownership of the pup, repeat these conversations a week or so later, ask the same questions to see if the answers change.

Place all pups into pet homes on Limited Registration and mark the papers not for export and make sure the buyer knows you do this (this devalues any pup that might be sent over seas or resold).

Take reservations and a deposit prior to breeding the litter this will allow you plenty of time to find good homes, if you can't find enough homes you like who will wait for the litter, then do not breed the litter.

Just as you experienced, brokers usually (but not always) want to buy as many as possible, so suggest you might have several pups for sale (even if you do not) and see what they do.

Be very careful or avoid email or phone call inquires that do not introduce themselves and their situation, ask for a photo and price, or emails that not mention your breed or your kennel. (for example; I am interested in your cute puppies, I am looking for a pet, can you send photo and price of puppies you have for sale.)

Look at email address and be leery of any that are from places like gmail yahoo hotmail, does not mean they are bad but most brokers will use these sorts of email addresses they can change frequently.

I am sure others can add to this list.

Edited to add, I would be very suspect of any over seas buyer if they "just" wanted a pet and had no valid reason to want your pet. It is very costly to ship them so would not make snece for the normal pet home.

Edited July 14, 2010 by shortstep

[oakway]

Just be a little careful what restrictions you put on purchasers.

The more restrictions we put on purchasers and condition makes many of them turn to

Back Yard Breeders.

Just stop and think if it was you purchasing a car and the dealer told you what you may or may not do,

how would that may make you feel.

[Staranais]

PS This post was not created to offend breeders out there who genuinely supply there pups for overseas export. It’s just that I’ve never heard any good things about dogs being exported.

My dog was exported to me, and she has a loving home. Now you've heard a good thing!

Shortstep is right that there are things you can do to check up a potential overseas buyer. A genuine overseas buyer won't mind you doing things like asking for references, or getting someone local to do a home check on them.

[ellz]

I've exported dogs to many places and have no problems with any of their homes. But in all honesty, the reality is that it is just as easy to place a dog in a bad home locally as it is to place one overseas (or interstate) and in either case there is often stuff-all you can do to rectify the situation if something does go wrong.

After a while, you do develop somewhat of a sixth sense when it comes to homes. If your radar is blipping for any reason, then follow your gut instinct. At worst, you've lost out on a good home, at best, you've avoided a potentially bad situation.

On the subject of brokers....it can be hellishly difficult to identify them sometimes. Most have been around for a while and know what to do and say and some even go to the trouble of having family members do their dirty work for them so as too fool suspicious breeders.

[Ozstar]

I've exported dogs to many places and have no problems with any of their homes. But in all honesty, the reality is that it is just as easy to place a dog in a bad home locally as it is to place one overseas (or interstate) and in either case there is often stuff-all you can do to rectify the situation if something does go wrong.

Agree

I have sold pups overseas. If it is a pet it is desexed before leaving and the new owners throughly checked, if it is for show I contact many breeders and have the people enquiring checked out.

I do exactly the same if selling in Australia (pup not desexed as sold at 8 weeks, but on a contract).

Leanne

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

When rehoming rescue dogs, we organise home checks (fencing, shelter, etc) - during this time I ask if the person knows about housetraining and other training methods.

If it is a purebred dog, then I ask what the person knows about the breed. Do they intend to take the dog to formal training, have they looked into that?

I also ask for their vet's contact details.

Occasionally I rehome interstate and gain assistance from local based rescuers to do the home check then.

People that are not appropriate will generally not agree to any of the above.

If I was breeding dogs, no matter what, I would not rehome overseas nor would I send a puppy anywhere without doing considerable checks beforehand.

I don't allow 'surprises' or 'presents' either and it's amazing just how frequently people intend to pass an animal on in this manner.

[Steve]

About 17 years ago I was contacted by someone who was and still is active in the dog show world. Different breed to mine but I checked him out pretty well.

he told me he needed the two bitches for his grandaughters as the breed he had wasn't suitable as they were a working breed.

He did a real number on me - remember this was before limited register. I drove to Sydney to what he said was his daughter's house where he was with his wife and the grandaughters and said everything I wanted to hear. Yard looked great and everyone was ready to accept the puppies.I walked away thinking all was well.

He rang me and we had several chats about how beautiful the girls were and how happy they had made the family and I felt all warm and snuggly that my pups had gone to such a great home.

Couple of months later they turn up in the CC journal listed as being exported overseas to a known puppy farm in Japan.

This was in fact the beginning of the case which led to the CC having to lift restrictions on their members for sales in pet shops. I complained - loud and clear and so did several other breeders who got sucked in by him. He resigned from the CC and his wife took over the prefix - he remained a dealer.

My point is that someone who wants to scam you can be very convincing and its very difficult to pick it as they know what to say and how to suck you in. Even though I can beat my chest and say they would never get me again there is always that element of doubt because this guy was very good at what he did and to the best of my knowledge still does.

looking back on it there were probably clues but I didn't pick them as I knew he was well known in his breed but the minute I get that "feeling" that slight niggle - that doubt all ideas of getting one of mine is out the window.

I love to talk to potential puppy buyers - I chat and waffle on and listen.They dont know Im interviewing them and I don't ask a set of questions because the real bad guys know what to say to answer these questions anyway. Dont for one minute think that doing home checks etc is going to help with someone who is highly motivated to getting past you.

Listen get them chatting about their lives and if you get any "oh oh" feeling STOP even if you cant say what caused the feeling.

[oakway]

About 17 years ago I was contacted by someone who was and still is active in the dog show world. Different breed to mine but I checked him out pretty well.

he told me he needed the two bitches for his grandaughters as the breed he had wasn't suitable as they were a working breed.

He did a real number on me - remember this was before limited register. I drove to Sydney to what he said was his daughter's house where he was with his wife and the grandaughters and said everything I wanted to hear. Yard looked great and everyone was ready to accept the puppies.I walked away thinking all was well.

He rang me and we had several chats about how beautiful the girls were and how happy they had made the family and I felt all warm and snuggly that my pups had gone to such a great home.

Couple of months later they turn up in the CC journal listed as being exported overseas to a known puppy farm in Japan.

This was in fact the beginning of the case which led to the CC having to lift restrictions on their members for sales in pet shops. I complained - loud and clear and so did several other breeders who got sucked in by him. He resigned from the CC and his wife took over the prefix - he remained a dealer.

My point is that someone who wants to scam you can be very convincing and its very difficult to pick it as they know what to say and how to suck you in. Even though I can beat my chest and say they would never get me again there is always that element of doubt because this guy was very good at what he did and to the best of my knowledge still does.

looking back on it there were probably clues but I didn't pick them as I knew he was well known in his breed but the minute I get that "feeling" that slight niggle - that doubt all ideas of getting one of mine is out the window.

I love to talk to potential puppy buyers - I chat and waffle on and listen.They dont know Im interviewing them and I don't ask a set of questions because the real bad guys know what to say to answer these questions anyway. Dont for one minute think that doing home checks etc is going to help with someone who is highly motivated to getting past you.

Listen get them chatting about their lives and if you get any "oh oh" feeling STOP even if you cant say what caused the feeling.

Exactally what happend to me. I opened the Dog World to see the dog exported to South East Asia.I still beat myself up over it.

Now don't get me wrong I have dogs that "I" exported to Asia "BUT I" knew where they were going.

[Steve]

About 17 years ago I was contacted by someone who was and still is active in the dog show world. Different breed to mine but I checked him out pretty well.

he told me he needed the two bitches for his grandaughters as the breed he had wasn't suitable as they were a working breed.

He did a real number on me - remember this was before limited register. I drove to Sydney to what he said was his daughter's house where he was with his wife and the grandaughters and said everything I wanted to hear. Yard looked great and everyone was ready to accept the puppies.I walked away thinking all was well.

He rang me and we had several chats about how beautiful the girls were and how happy they had made the family and I felt all warm and snuggly that my pups had gone to such a great home.

Couple of months later they turn up in the CC journal listed as being exported overseas to a known puppy farm in Japan.

This was in fact the beginning of the case which led to the CC having to lift restrictions on their members for sales in pet shops. I complained - loud and clear and so did several other breeders who got sucked in by him. He resigned from the CC and his wife took over the prefix - he remained a dealer.

My point is that someone who wants to scam you can be very convincing and its very difficult to pick it as they know what to say and how to suck you in. Even though I can beat my chest and say they would never get me again there is always that element of doubt because this guy was very good at what he did and to the best of my knowledge still does.

looking back on it there were probably clues but I didn't pick them as I knew he was well known in his breed but the minute I get that "feeling" that slight niggle - that doubt all ideas of getting one of mine is out the window.

I love to talk to potential puppy buyers - I chat and waffle on and listen.They dont know Im interviewing them and I don't ask a set of questions because the real bad guys know what to say to answer these questions anyway. Dont for one minute think that doing home checks etc is going to help with someone who is highly motivated to getting past you.

Listen get them chatting about their lives and if you get any "oh oh" feeling STOP even if you cant say what caused the feeling.

Exactally what happend to me. I opened the Dog World to see the dog exported to South East Asia.I still beat myself up over it.

Now don't get me wrong I have dogs that "I" exported to Asia "BUT I" knew where they were going.

nods.

[ellz]

I had an enquiry recently for an adult dog that I am selling.

The email was from an obviously "foreign" name who said they were located in Melbourne, but as I don't necessarily discriminate against these purchasers, I sent out my standard "fishing" email to find out more information and to lay out my specific terms up front.

ie, condition of sale being that dog is sold on a "Not For Export" agreement.

The reply came back that the person was THEN located in Melbourne but was actually from a kennel in India and that my dog would be exported. At least they were up front but I chose not to sell to them.

On the flipside, I recently sold my last American Cocker puppy to a wonderful pet home in Japan. I met this person through another friend who was a Uni lecturer at a large Tokyo University and she has had Cockers all her life but didn't want to purchase one from the USA (due to quarantine restrictions) and didn't want to buy locally because she didn't like the ethics of the local breeders. Shio has been in touch every few days with photos and updates. Alice has now been desexed and is doing beautifully with her new language. And Shio is not just a purchaser, but a friend. I hurt my back quite badly a couple of weeks ago and the moment Shio heard about it, she put some special Japanese heatpads and back warmers into the post for me because she said she doubted there was anything as effective here. Definitely the right kind of home for one of my babies! :D

[Moselle]

The way I see it, anyone wanting to purchase a pet dog would do so in their very own country! I would never sell a pup to someone from overseas as I can never be sure that they are genuine and that they can indeed provide a loving home. Anyone that sells dogs overseas needs a good backhander! Unless they are wanting to sell to a genuine registered breeder that is wanting to expand her/his genepool.

[ellz]

The way I see it, anyone wanting to purchase a pet dog would do so in their very own country! I would never sell a pup to someone from overseas as I can never be sure that they are genuine and that they can indeed provide a loving home. Anyone that sells dogs overseas needs a good backhander! Unless they are wanting to sell to a genuine registered breeder that is wanting to expand her/his genepool.

Moselle, you are of course entitled to your own opinion but you're MORE than welcome to come and give me a backhander. But don't expect to not get one back!!!

There are MANY reasons why a person doesn't want to purchase a puppy in their own country and you are making some pretty widesweeping statements here.

[Moselle]

The way I see it, anyone wanting to purchase a pet dog would do so in their very own country! I would never sell a pup to someone from overseas as I can never be sure that they are genuine and that they can indeed provide a loving home. Anyone that sells dogs overseas needs a good backhander! Unless they are wanting to sell to a genuine registered breeder that is wanting to expand her/his genepool.

Moselle, you are of course entitled to your own opinion but you're MORE than welcome to come and give me a backhander. But don't expect to not get one back!!!

There are MANY reasons why a person doesn't want to purchase a puppy in their own country and you are making some pretty widesweeping statements here.

Hi ellz, LOL. I must say that I have never ever given anybody a backhander but even in saying that I think I would give a pretty memorable backhander What reasons could people possibly have in wanting to purchase a puppy from overseas? Nope, sorry but I beg to differ. Any breeder that is truly an animal lover would never ever go down that path.

[ellz]

Hi ellz, LOL. I must say that I have never ever given anybody a backhander but even in saying that I think I would give a pretty memorable backhander What reasons could people possibly have in wanting to purchase a puppy from overseas? Nope, sorry but I beg to differ. Any breeder that is truly an animal lover would never ever go down that path.

Are you a breeder?

I would defy you to say that I am not a TRUE animal lover and I most certainly HAVE sold puppies to pet homes overseas.

In some cases there are breeds that are not popular or available overseas. In other cases, there are health problems in an overpopulated breed or bloodline that people do not wish to deal with. Or in the case of my friend in Japan who purchased a PET puppy from me, she knows of EVERY breeder with that breed in Japan and due to their ethics (or lack thereof) she would prefer not to deal with them so opted to purchase a puppy from me instead.

Blanket statements such as you have made, whilst certainly your opinion are inflammatory and very short-sighted IMO.