Foxes

[corvus]

Oh, I think they had a fairly good idea who did it, but what I meant is they don't know for sure or else they could have prosecuted.

[Aidan]

Parks and Wildlife don't mention anything about pro-hunting groups in their reports (which is not to say that there haven't been investigations, but it's not the "official" story). Neither Parks and Wildlife or the Fox Eradication Taskforce have shot or captured a fox.

http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/file.aspx?id=6536

Edited July 15, 2010 by Aidan

[Shaar]

How did this go from Ellz spotted a fox, to needing hard evidence about a taskforce?

It was all over the Tassie news when it first happened, people were out searching for them and setting traps.

Sorry, I don't tape the news though :p

I hope they catch the little bugger Ellz, we have quite a few critters that would be devastated if they were allowed to get out of control.

[corvus]

I wouldn't expect it to ever become an "official" story unless someone claimed responsibility for it. It wasn't fed to me as an official story, but more of an insider's account. It came from a member of the scientific community, although lecturers aren't above feeding their students politics and propaganda. :p You take it or leave it, like anything you hear. I recently sat in on a frog workshop full of experts and the sheer amount of unsupported information that gets spread around is mind-boggling. It is a lot of good, useful stuff, though. These people know the players, are intimately acquainted with opposition of all sorts, and generally have their fingers on the pulse. I should have whacked an "apparently" before I repeated what I had heard. To clarify once and for all, it's not an official story. I took it as a "those of us in the field know what happened and we're really pissed about it" sort of story. It was still breaking news when I heard it, so it's entirely possible the details weren't correct and it's also entirely possible I remembered them incorrectly.

[Aidan]

It was still breaking news when I heard it, so it's entirely possible the details weren't correct and it's also entirely possible I remembered them incorrectly.

You probably heard them correctly. I have an opinion on why you were told that but I can't substantiate it so I'll not share it.

[Aidan]

How did this go from Ellz spotted a fox, to needing hard evidence about a taskforce?

Given the feeling that the mere mention of foxes can evoke here (Tas, not DOL, yet) I'm actually glad it went this way and not down the path it could have gone.

[ellz]

Well, all I can say is that I saw what I saw. Mr Ellz saw it at the same time. When we saw it, we had at that stage had NO idea that there had been a supposed sighting on Bruny, reported in the Mercury. We saw it at 3pm, I rang the Taskforce at about 3.17pm and they returned my call shortly thereafter. It was only after that that we read the Mercury and saw the story so it wasn't a case of sensationalism or trying to go one better.

We TRULY believe that we saw a fox. We went online a bit afterwards and searched for info on foxes and based upon those photos and what I recall seeing, I'm even more positive.

Whether anything comes of it, I have no idea but I have done my duty and reported it. To be honest, I had always poo-pooed the whole fox and taskforce subject so nobody is more surprised than me that I have possibly seen one now. But I do live in a rural area and I AM surrounded by sheep and other small mammals and birds and it is a very fox-friendly environment so I guess it isn't that surprising after all.

The guy who rang from the taskforce (I think his name was Steve) asked me some questions and had me describe what I saw. At first he was quite guarded but when I described the shape and colour and markings of the animals ears (which I saw clearly from behind, probably only around 10 metres or so away initially) he got pretty excited. I explained that I am a dog and horse breeder and that watching animals is what I do best and I think I was able to articulate to him well enough the shape, size, colour and movement so that he got a very clear picture of what we saw.

I still keep asking myself if it is possible that I was seeing things, but the most salient point comes back to me and that is that bunnies and hares (which my first thought was) don't actually RUN, they hop and that when it turned 3/4 on to us and looked back, it's face was the most un-bunnylike, un domestic doglike and un-catlike thing I have ever seen in my life!

So....as I said to Steve (?) part of me hopes that I am right and that I'm not seeing things, but most of me hopes that I'm wrong because the last thing I want is foxes on my doorstep.

Edited July 15, 2010 by ellz

[tarope]

Catch them all, Australia wide and send them back to England where they came from in the first place.

They can have their bloody rabbits back too.

Edited July 15, 2010 by tarope

[OSoSwift]

Catch them all, Australia wide and send them back to England where they came from in the first place.

They can have their bloody rabbits back too.

Agreed - my dogs go mental when they so much as smell one!

[Staff'n'Toller]

Pity it wasn't a Thylacine.

[Steve]

I also remember news reports telling us of a group responsible for deliberately introducing them

however.

http://www.dpiw.tas.gov.au/inter.nsf/Attac...oxIRsummary.pdf

Authorities have gathered sufficient evidence beyond reasonable doubt over the past decade

to categorically confirm the presence of low numbers of red foxes in the State (Fox

Eradication Program 2005). Popular belief suggests the presence of these foxes has most

likely arisen from the wilful, illegal introduction of sets of fox cubs by one or more people in

the late 1990’s, and is a situation exacerbated by the coincidental decline of the Tasmanian

Devil population across much of the State due to the spread of a fatal facial tumour disease.

Tasmanian Devil’s are believed to have provided an important predatory and/or competitive

buffer against the establishment of foxes in the past. As the fox is far from being fully

established in Tasmania, every effort is being made by the Government to specifically target

and eradicate the small number of vermin known to be present in selected areas of the State.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Steve

[Tim'sMum]

I've heard that same deliberate release story.

Can you provide a source though? If not, it's best to be clear upfront that what you're repeating is hearsay only and not fact- that's what I'm getting at.

Either way, it's clearly a terrible thing but spreading misinformation (as this can only be considered, given no sources are apparently available) as fact really isn't productive.

Does it matter?

There are two scenarios. Foxes either stowed away on ships from the mainland or were deliberately released. No-one knows with 100% surety, so arguing the point is a waste of space.

The fact is...foxes are there in Tasmania and must be eridicated to stop an environmental disaster.

Ellz...here's hoping that your fox will be caught, trapped, eradicated.

I imagine baiting, as they do around here (buried 1080 baits) would be difficult as Tasmanian Devils could also dig up the baits?

Edited July 15, 2010 by Tim'sMum

[Allerzeit]

Good on you for reporting it, ellz!

Wow, foxes And here we were thinking that we'd be seeing the last of the buggers when we move!

[Aidan]

You definitely did the right thing Ellz, and the odds are high that you actually saw one. I actually reported a sighting a few years ago. I didn't get as good a look as I would have liked but that's not the point.

[Aidan]

Does it matter?

Yes it does. When the finger is being pointed at a sector of the community by another sector of the community for political reasons, without evidence, that is a great social injustice. To find out that some of the academic community are also jumping on board quite frankly appalls me (no reflection on Corvus, she was just reporting what she had been told).

[jerojath]

Pity it wasn't a Thylacine.

Don't think for a minute that they're not around either!

Don't know if they are in Tas but they are sure as hell on the mainland.

[Kirislin]

Pity it wasn't a Thylacine.

Don't think for a minute that they're not around either!

Don't know if they are in Tas but they are sure as hell on the mainland.

Yep, stuffed in museums or in specimen jars.

[Staff'n'Toller]

Pity it wasn't a Thylacine. :D

Don't think for a minute that they're not around either!

Don't know if they are in Tas but they are sure as hell on the mainland.

Really? I can imagine there may be some black panthers around but hard to believe there's Tasi Tigers here with no photographic evidence.

Mel.

[corvus]

To find out that some of the academic community are also jumping on board quite frankly appalls me.

Well, scientists are people as well, and if they were anywhere near as pissed about it as I was when I heard, it was probably very difficult to keep a level head about it. I know some frog scientists that get very fired up about things as well. It's hard not to go off on an explosive tirade about folks you know are doing nothing but ill for what you care about deeply enough to dedicate your life to, and it's hard when you care that much to see people who are just neutral bystanders as just neutral when they aren't doing anything to help. It's a "you're with me or against me" sort of knee jerk reaction.

In theory scientists are impartial all the time, but in reality they are far from it. It's a good lesson for those of us that are or are studying to be scientists to remember that it's reasonable for people to expect you to be impartial all the time and just be careful who you say what to. I'm glad I can't remember who told us this story back in second year, now! I took pretty much everything I was taught in uni as law, but the vast majority of it was referenced and what wasn't was usually prefixed with "We think". I normally remember to report that bit as well, but this time I didn't and it was a bad one to get sloppy on. Apologies, everyone. :D

[Tassie]

.....

I imagine baiting, as they do around here (buried 1080 baits) would be difficult as Tasmanian Devils could also dig up the baits?

Baiting is what they are doing. They say not a problem for Devils, who are carrion feeders, but there's some concern that there may be a connection between the baiting and the reduction in numbers of Quolls.