Guest choice_brandy Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I don't post here often but I was wondering if anyone had seen anything like this and could offer some insight into what our problem might be. I have a Red Cattle Dog who has always had a very bald tummy... not even the odd hair. All her litter mates were the same. As she gets older though, the baldness seems to be extending... she now has very little hair on the back of her legs, the entire length of her tail but just the bottom half (if you can picture that), it extends under her neck and is beginning to thin out over her shoulders. The rest of her coat is soft and thick and she is not itchy in the slightest. Definitely no fleas present and the vet has excluded mange as the problem through skin scrapings. As per breeder recommendations, I feed her Supercoat puppy, She is still on her first bag as she also gets a chicken frame for breakfast, and the "paws" brand pet mince as well as a cup of supercoat for dinner. Our dogs also get kelp meal, pet vitamins, natural yoghurt, and a couple of eggs a week added to their dinners. I am leaning towards replacing the supercoat with either Royal Canin which is what I usually feed, or trying Uncle Albers having read some good reports about that, just to see if that makes a difference. Apart from the hair loss (which isn't actually falling out, it seems to rub out) she is a very active happy little dog and the bald bits don't worry her. Can anyone come up with any other suggestions on what is causing it. I have scouted the garden for noxious plants and removed anything questionable... she swims about once a week in the ocean, gets washed in Fidos and I have even added malaseb lately though it hasn't changed anything. I would go back to the vet and put more pressure for an answer but last week the company I worked for went into liquidation the day before payday so we're scraping by at the moment. I am not sure the situation is dire anyway... so I thought I would pose the question here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 (edited) Things to eliminate would be mange (need a skin scraping for that and it doesn't sound like it), allergies and any genetic causes. If your pup had been blue I'd have looked at dilute colour alopecia but as she is red, that's ruled out. As a first step, I'd be looking to supplement the diet with some decent oil (fish or flaxseed) and changing up to a premium kibble. ETA: Heavy metal poisoning would be a remote possibility. Lead poisoning can lead to hair loss. That would require a blood test. However if other littermates are losing hair and are on different diets, you're looking more at a genetic component. Edited July 13, 2010 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest choice_brandy Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Oh, I forgot to add she gets sardines once a week... the only reason I bought the Supercoat was because that was what the breeder had her on, I just wish not I'd got a smaller bag and changed her sooner. She has had a skin scaping done, so we've already ruled out mange as the cause. I just have the nagging feeling that supercoat might be the issue. I will see if I can figure out how to post some pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest choice_brandy Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Not great pictures, I just ran out and took them with my phone. Just if it makes a difference, Chilli is an inside dog who sleeps in a crate in my bedroom (unless I am cold then she gets the bed, lol) She's not much of a chewer so unsure where she's get heavy metal poisoning but I think I might request some blood tests just to be on the safe side. We also have a 4yo labrador who has a beautiful coat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Yikes! Did the vet check for both kinds of mange? (Sarcoptic and Demodectic)? I would suggest you discontinue the "pet mince". Its usually laden with preservatives. Something like chicken wings would be a better option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest choice_brandy Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Ok, now you have me worried... just booked her back into the vet for another skin scraping and to get some blood tests. He assures me that he checked for both manges but I don't think I we happy til I have an answer to what it is. Does mange not itch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest choice_brandy Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I checked the mince I buy, it says no added preservatives. It has omega 3 added. I used to get chicken mince but was told that was full of hormones and preservatives. The dogs do get a lot of fresh chicken and lamb offcuts. Figuring out the right balance is so hard sometimes. When I am working they sometimes even get rib fillet because the cats a fussy little baskets and my butcher often has deals where you buy 2 rib fillets and get 3 free... they work out about $25 each which in the grand scheme of things, isn't unreasonable but at the moment, I cant be forking it out that sort of money, my new job doesn't start til September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Ok, now you have me worried... just booked her back into the vet for another skin scraping and to get some blood tests. He assures me that he checked for both manges but I don't think I we happy til I have an answer to what it is. Does mange not itch? If he's checked for both, I'd not be repeating the scrapings but I have to say that the hair loss in such a young dog would be concerning me. Dietary changes may assist. Heavy metals can be in the soil, in products used around the house (eg old paint) and in some forms of pottery. Is the other dog unaffected? If so, then there's something specific happening to the pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest choice_brandy Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Yes, the other dog is completely unaffected. She is also not on Supercoat so maybe there could be a problem there. A second skin scraping wont harm her for peace of mind, the last one was done 4 weeks ago. She's booked in for tomorrow. As for dry food... I have about a quarter of the bag left, I might see if I can find the Uncle Albers food today and wean her onto that, if she improves, i will just throw the remaining SC away I think. Usually I would just go buy the tried and trusted Royal Canin, but in all honestly, I can't afford to at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 She is very cute I'd ask for a referral to a dermatologist if you want answers. But I'd def. try another brand of food first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I'd request another scraping to rule out demodex. There's two different types of mange - sarcoptic and demodex. Sarcoptic mange makes them incredibly itchy where as demodex doesn't. You won't always see demodex on a scraping and I have known of cases where it eventually took a biopsy to find it. The fact the littermates are all the same is a bit odd. But again, this could fit with demodex. Thyroid function might be something worth testing too. Failing all that though, I'd be requesting a referral to a dermatologist who can help you get to the bottom of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest choice_brandy Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 When I say her litter mates were the same, I am referring to the fact that they all had hairless tummies... I met them at 4 weeks and then brought Chilli home at 8 and it was noticeable even at 4 weeks. Also... the curious part is that the hair isn't falling out, I just gave her a good brush and only a few hairs came out... the places that are going bald are where things rub on her, such as the leg straps of her coat and around her neck where her collar sits. I have taken to only putting her coat on when the temperature really drops, and the collar if we're going out. Both fit well so that isn't the problem. The total lack of itchiness is what has me really stumped. Hopefully we'll get to the bottom of it tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I'd be asking for a thyroid screening panel. The dark skin discolouration and hairloss worries me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbesotted Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1593&aid=421 check out here h Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest choice_brandy Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1593&aid=421check out here h Thanks for the link, reading up on mange I think it will be excluded again tomorrow as she has absolutely no itchiness. Growth hormone responsive alopecia seems the closest fit in that list to my untrained eye but I might suggest the vet check for other causes. At her last visit the hairloss wasn't as obvious as it is now, but I think that is due to the fact that she's been wearing her coat and rubbed out more hair. The other strange thing that my partner pointed out... even at about 10 weeks old Chilli had callouses on her hind legs, exactly in the middle of her paw and her hock, she still has those... but I can't figure out where the pressure is coming from to create them as it is not an area that she would "lean on" Her original vet dismissed them but is it possible she just has really thin skin or something and everything is related. Apart from the hairloss, health-wise she's brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest choice_brandy Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Took some pictures of her callouses... I just came across a pic I took the first week I had her, the callouses were there way back then. I will also show you all what I mean by her bare tummy. Is that not normal ever or do some dogs have hairless bellies? Here's her callouses at 8 weeks And as of 5 minutes ago Her naked belly when she was around 12 weeks And now (can't find the cat to pose again at the minute) The more I look at it the more concerned I get... she's my baby... I border on neurotic when it comes to her, thankfully she's fully insured so my job status at the moment wont play a huge role in getting her sorted out but she's about to start obedience classes and I am sure I'll get some snotty looks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest choice_brandy Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Last pic, this was at 8 weeks... she always had the bald tummy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 (edited) It is not unusual for some dogs and puppies to have fairly hairless tummies, but not to the extent your girl has her hairloss. I would be getting a full blood panel including thyroid for a start. By all means change her food, but I would have though if it was due to a food allergy then she would be a little bit itchy at least?? You may also have to look at getting a skin biopsy. And as suggested another skin scraping for mites. I do remember a dog who had skin issues and was itchy and it took three seperate scrapings and that was to diagnose Sarcoptic mange mite which is normally very easily seen. Good luck and I hope you find some answers very soon Edited July 13, 2010 by Rommi n Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 As far as I know, ACD's have black noses are are not a dilute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 As far as I know, ACD's have black noses are are not a dilute. Red ACDs certainly aren't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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