Guest MattandBuddy Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I have a male german shepherd, 15months old. I have recently overcome some serious pulling issues with the help of a chocker chain. The final issue I am struggling with is his behaviour around other dogs. He shows alot of bad body language and when we try to introduce him to other dogs he instantly tries to become the "leader" Usually being very rough and slapping the other dogs down etc. I have only tried this a few times but usually the other owners pulls away. I want to introduce him and let the 2 dogs settle it but am not sure if I should introduce him to a larger dog in which he will have to yeild or a smaller dog and let him win. I would prefer the first as I do not want to encourage this behaviour. However I am afraid of letting two large dogs lose when I know the body langugage my dog shows. He is very good around people and has never shown any aggression. Further to this I have never seen him attack another dog but it is a fine line he is at I think. I would really like to here what NOT to do! my dog is not desexed and I dont want to get him desexed Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grotty_rotty Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Mattandbuddy… just curious, is he to be used for breeding and showing etc. Why not desex him? I had a similar issue with an old German Shepherd, he was dog aggressive and I found as I read his body language pre-attack I noticed he was reading my body language which triggered him even more. I was not aware of this at first but it was pointed out to me that my whole body changed as I saw a dog approach. Once I started to relax, the attacks decreased. Probably not much help as once other members post you will get some great advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I would go & get a few lessons with an experienced trainer. You don't say where you are but I'm sure wherever it is, people here will have someone they can recommend. Your boys is a teenager & will change significantly now. How you handle the next few months will probably affect how he is for the rest of his life. Being entire is not helping him much at this point. You probably wont get a lot of sympathy here for not desexing him unless he is a registered stud dog which is really the only valid reason for keeping him entire. I would also be careful with the assumption that the larger dog will always be the dominant one. This is not always the case and this assumption could be dangerous. How much training have you already done with him & what sort of training is it? What is him comfort zone when he sees another dog? How far away does he have to be without reacting & what is his reaction when he sees another? Have introductions been done on or off lead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I have a full male dobermann. He is a show and stud dog so obviusly not desexed. And yes he is dog agressive. Well male agressive. Any girl is fine. Does your dog treat male and female dogs the same way? Please do not let your dog "win" with a small dog, the smaller dog is not necesarily going to have a smaller ego than yours and could get seriusly hurt by your GSD. And 2 big dogs - they can injure each other. Firstly I woul start with female dog, let us know how he behaves with females. it is crucial that you learn to observe the dog and learn the body language to prevent any dog fight. It is also important that you learn how to separate fighting dogs (no screeming, no hitting, no sticks etc - just grab the back legs of a dog and pull backwards) in case your dog gets into a fight. Your dog is a young full of raging hormones male, a teenager. He will potentially get worse with age. I recomend that you take some training lessons with K9 Force (in Sydney) or at least visit his website. It is Very important you train your dog to come on command, and you understand the implications of what van happend if he doesnt come back. I also recomend that you have him desexed if you are not planning on breeding and showing. They cant masturbate the same as you can. From my personal experience - I will never have another full of himself non desexed male. it is too stressfull for me and for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattandBuddy Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 hi all thanks for your responses. -All attempts have been made on leash. -have not tried a female in some time but something I am trying to organise -usually starts reacting at about 100m -training I have done so far includes, sit, down, stay, fetch, heal, walking without pulling. All he does well 90% of the time, butnone he does perfect. Also training him on where he can go, eg in garage not in house. -The desexing part is a topic in its self. there is no real good reason why i havent except for the fact that I dont want to. All the people at the vet and puupy school etc suggest it immediately. I would if someone said "it will fix this issue etc" but dont want to just for the sake of it. Keeping this in mind I have recently made enquiries about it. thanks again everyone I really appreciate the responses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derharv GSD'S Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Hi I also have german shepherds and I have found that head halters can give you extra control with them, you may find it more effective to control him? I had a female a few years ago which did the same thing, I can give you the phone no. of a professional dog trainer who is fantastic with agression problems he also runs a boarding school for dogs. This is something you dont want to muck around with. In my experience it can sometimes be a dominace thing or a nervous thing? If I can be of any further assitance please pm me. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 100m is very far - not a good sign... does he growl at the other dog from that far?? Can you describe what does he actually do, what is the body, ears, do? its hard without seeing the dog but perhaps just a bit more info will help. How do you cope in the training club? or have you just attended puppy preschool and never trained in the group with him being a grown up? Desexing is not some magical tool that will fix your problems however will help you in management of your dog. I can assure you that dealing with a raging full of hormones boy when there is a bitch in season nearby is by far harder than changing your way of thinking with the "I just dont want to" department. It is not doing it just for the sake of it, it is doing it for the sake of you, your dog and possible others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 And I will advice against a head halter as a lounging forward dog can seriusly injure his vertabrae in the neck. Visit K9 Force site to read more about it, or search this forum there were many threats about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 MattandBuddy - where are you located? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 (edited) . Edited December 22, 2008 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derharv GSD'S Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I would also like to advise against a 'dog boarding school'. You need to be with your dog for training.It's all very well to send your dog somewhere for training but who then trains you to work well with your dog? Training also helps handler and dog bond and you don't want the dog to bond with a stranger he may never see again. I strongly suggest you have this boy desexed. Do you have a particular reason you want him to remain entire? Is he main registered and suitable for breeding and an excellent specimen of the breed? No point at all in keeping him entire just for the sake of it. The dog gains nothing for being left entire. I am not against head halters as long as you are taught exactly how to use them by a professional dog trainer..same really as any other training tool.. There are many who say they do damage but there does not seem to be any proof of this in the way of documented evidence, just personal opinions. Choker chains on the other hand can cause damage and many do not even know how to fit them let alone use them. My Rottweiler was trained with a Halti but we use a Martingale now. We don't need the Halti anymore. I think it would be in your best interest and that of the dog, to seek professional one on one training with your dog. I would also like to advise against a 'dog boarding school'. You need to be with your dog for training.Forgot to add This trainning school, includes both you and dog, you fully taught how to correctly use the headhalter and you receive private lessons on how to handle the dog and work together and then are encouraged to attend the group lessons afterwards Best of luck with your gsd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxagirl Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I suggest that you work on making your dog focus on you, useing LOTS of food and praise. Start with being a LONG way away from other dogs and very gradualy get closer as he focuses on you. It may be worthwile to teach the leave it command. Also putting tension around the dogs neck may make it respond worse to other dogs (because they associate the uncomfortable tension around the neck with the other dog.) So I would advise not to "pull" or "yank" the dog away from other dogs if he is dislaying any aggressive signs, but instead try to call him away. I need more info. on his body posture etc. to be able to sufficiantly help you. Also believe neutering would help, but thats JMO. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemibabe Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Ummmmm......wouldn't desexing the dog lower the desire to get out in search of a bitch on heat? Isn't that enough reason to get your dog desexed? So it stays at home and not want to roam? Desexing has advantages for your pet.Firstly, female dogs that are spayed do not have the continual strain of litters depleting their body of essential nutrients. Secondly, male dogs and females in season generally go walk-about in search of romance. Female dogs that are spayed and male dogs that are castrated do not roam the suburbs to nearly the same extent. During such neighbourhood jaunts, these shameless females and uncastrated males are often baited, hit by cars or lost. Desexed dogs are less likely to suffer such a fate. Thirdlly, male dogs are less aggressive and less territorial if castrated and therefore are less likely to suffer wounds from fighting. In addition, female dogs that have been desexed are much less likely to develop the dog equivalent of breast cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxSpots Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 -The desexing part is a topic in its self. there is no real good reason why i havent except for the fact that I dont want to. All the people at the vet and puupy school etc suggest it immediately. I would if someone said "it will fix this issue etc" but dont want to just for the sake of it. Keeping this in mind I have recently made enquiries about it. Just a comment about desexing We lost our last dog (a Dalmatian) to testicular cancer. If he had been desexed he may still be with us now. I have never forgiven myself for that. We didn't think there was any reason for desexing either as all our previous male dogs were intact.... they were CockerXLab and my mum's Golden Retriever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattandBuddy Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Hi all, - I live in newcastle NSW. - I previously used the head halti in an attempt to control his pulling but ll it did was made the pulling not as powerful. I now use a choker chain only and he walks fine with the lead slack 90% of the time. - When we are around other dogs he is not showing 100% aggresion as I may have suggested. He usually barks pulls in that direction and cries. Almost as if he is desperate to get there. CAnt tell you more than that about his body language but I do no he stands very tall . - We have been told he is a dominant dog. - When he is around other dogs he will often sit on command but at no time gives us any attention. - walking in a different direction usually helps alot but I dont want to avoid the meeting. -I dont see this as a problem I cant overcome I just need to find the right way to do it. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattandBuddy Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 one more thing...It was suggested to me I put a muzzle on buddy and then let him off the lead. That way he cant do any harm to the other dog and hopefully he will get any excitement out of his system etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninaandted Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Hi there, I'm going to be tedious and suggest what others have already suggested and that is that you seriously consider desexing him - it will reduce his drive to escape as entire males have a reputation for getting out to go for visits! Also the testicular cancer risk too. I'm sure that you just want the best for your boy but there are advantages. I know that's not what your initial question was about - sorry! I would also ask how well socialised he is already with other dogs? There is the possibility that he might not being aggressive but is just keen to go and "play" if he's still puppy age. Others can probably give advice about socialising and appropriate play. Don't just rely on categories given to your dog - they are just guidelines for what might happen, but don't necessarily dictate the exact personality of your dog. Our labrador also barks when walking with other dogs, mainly because she wants to go over and play, get their attention and tell me off for not letting her! She is still a puppy and is ignoring the boundaries, but it can look and sound like aggression. We have just started going to group training to deal with this problem. This is working really well with removing her reaction and teaching her the boudaries for playing and wanting to approach other dogs. It might not be appropriate for you at this stage, if it really is aggression, but longer term it might be worth considering as it can neutralise their reaction to other dogs being around if they learn to look to you only for direction despite doggie distractions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattandBuddy Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Thanks nina, we are considering de-sexing but want to address this problem first and our decision will be more for the medical benefits. He has not had enough socialising and this I believe is the solution however I am trying to find the best way to socialise as most people get too scared of him. I too beleive he just wants to play as he is a very active friendly dog, especially around humans. Anyone had experience with muzzels????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninaandted Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Hi again, Not much help with the muzzle question but just some feedback on letting him off to play with other dogs. The one thing that the group trainer has taught me in regard to playing and approaching other dogs is that before allowing your dog to do so, ensure that they can be relied upon to come back to you when called when there are distractions and temptations like other dogs and that you can get them under control if they get excited. This is for the safety of other dogs if yours gets too excited, and the safety of your dog if other dogs don't want to play nicely either! Even with a muzzle I would be really careful about letting him off to play because he could have a bad experience with another dog and be defenceless and you will be taking two steps back with his socialisation and especially his agression. It's a tricky one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattandBuddy Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 it is tricky but unfortunetly he wont do much at all that I say once he is around other dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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