Aggression Towards My Girls

[persephone]

I'm assuming its a small breed.

mixed breed- .... around 12 weeks I think... so not tiny.

[Monah]

I can't say I've ever moved a dog by picking it up

I'm assuming its a small breed. I do it with mums pomeranian because sometimes the little brat prince wont move and he has a grumble. Only because he doesnt want to get off his butt when told.

I guess a pom is a dog the one next door (very cute) is smaller than my cats. :D

[Nekhbet]

yeah mums is smaller then a cat. Saying that his royal highness still has a mean set of teeth as I can attest to when he latched onto my boob and did the whole thrash/chomp/maul episode.

ok looked back through posts OP has a staffy x puppy with mouthing, biting type tendencies and from a not so good breeder. I say professional help sooner then later with a dog like this.

[W Sibs]

yeah mums is smaller then a cat. Saying that his royal highness still has a mean set of teeth as I can attest to when he latched onto my boob and did the whole thrash/chomp/maul episode.

ok looked back through posts OP has a staffy x puppy with mouthing, biting type tendencies and from a not so good breeder. I say professional help sooner then later with a dog like this.

Ouch!!

Edited July 14, 2010 by CW EW

[Marley'z Mum]

ok let me just start by saying..... thankyou everyone for your posts

Do not allow the kids to pick him up or disturb him when alseep, he's warning them that he's not happy with that

You are not saying anything that hasn't already been said, if you had read back over the post, u would see, he wasn't asleep

and let me point out people, I have stated before, in every other way u can imagine this pup is fine with the kids, and this issue has probably happened about 4 times in the entire time I have had the puppy, the last time was purely my fault, I live in this house, so I see what goes on and what doesnt.

quite frankly it's beyond you at this point in time to make an assessment and put in place a plan that is in the best interests of the puppy and your children.

personally I don't think it is, I might be wrong, but I believe he has no confidence in my youngest daughter, mostly, we start puppy classes next week, I will be asking the teacher about it there aswell, I am NOT a moron, if I believe it is getting or looking like it is going to get worse, I will do something about it.

but teach him to target your hand with his nose.

I would be interested to know how to teach this...... (before people start jumping up and down and sayin it wont fix the proble) not to fix the problem but purely because I would like to teach him that...

ok looked back through posts OP has a staffy x puppy with mouthing, biting type tendencies and from a not so good breeder.

the mouthing, biting is not a issue anymore, the kids all play happily outside with him and I have not had the same problem, yes he gets excited and mouths but nothing for them to complain about.

Now I am just going to finish this post with this....... I joined this forum because a friend told me about it, and I thought it would be useful to learn some things.... however this will probably be my last post, I am absolutely shocked at the way some people have reacted to this, I am not a moron, I did not need 15 people tell me the same thing, No-one accept Nekhbet has offered me anything that might help, everyone has just set about telling me things I already knew, like don't let daughter pick him up, and yes I made the mistake of telling her to do it again, but I posted the issue hoping someone could give me some ideas.... maybe there weren't any other than see a professional, but again I didn't need everyone to tell me, could most of you not read the post, thought the same as what people had said, and NOT felt the need to say it aswell?? I would have thought for the sake of dogs all over the place, you would want to help people that come to your forum to get advice and help... I am not the only one that has been made to feel completely guilty about whats going on with there dog... I read a post recently about people that were wanting help for there dog they chose to keep outside that was barking... ok it was probably not the most ideal situation for the dog, but I am sure it could have been approached alot gentler than everyone jumping up and down about the dog being outside, that poster has not been back either.... maybe my skin isn't thick enough for this type of thing, but I believe in constructive critisism...

so thanks to those that did try to give me some ideas.... and to everyone else, I wont be allowing my daughter to pick up the puppy anymore, again we are starting classes next week, and again, I will not let this situation get out of hand!

[megan_]

woah nellie!

You will often find that people post at the same time (so you get 10 posts saying the same thing). Also, some people give their advice which is similar to others to help emphasise the point (after all, 10 people who have the same advice is more powerful than 1 person. If you get 10 different pieces of advice, how do you know what to follow?).

I tought my dogs to target by holding my fist close to their face. I then wiggled it around. When they touched it with their nose I said "yes" and gave them a treat from my other hand. Repeat until they have touched it a few times. Then add the word 'touch" just as they are about to touch it. You can then make it harder by having your hand in different positions.

Good luck with your pup. Most people here have just tried to help.

[persephone]

I have just read back thru the thread- and saw , as well as Nekhbet's usual sound advice, a lot of attempts to explain to you what was happening, and suggest things which may help..perhaps you didn't realise what people were trying to say .

best of luck with your boy ..I hope he becomes the dog you want

[koalathebear]

MM - hang in there. Like you, I sometimes feel really bad for many of the newbies who come here asking for help and are made to feel like really horrible human beings (at worst) and really bad dog parents (at best). I cringe sometimes, especially when I see posters who clearly need all the help they can get being chased away from probably the only place they're going to get sensible advice and support :p Even the most expert 'dog expert' had to start somewhere and a lot of people I've spoken to have told me that they made mistakes with their first dog - and probably even with their later dogs.

It's sort of happened to me, too and early in the piece I felt so bad I deleted the bookmark to the DOL and tried to find a way to delete my account ;) Then I decided that I really want to give Elbie all the best possible chances that I can, swallowed my pride, tried to get a thicker skin and continued to read, post and ask for help.

The people here are very knowledgable. Many of them are actually very kind and understanding. For the most part, I REALLY don't think that the people posting are trying to be unkind or patronise you. For the most part, I believe that most people are trying to be helpful and don't realise/forget that a new puppy owner can feel quite sensitive and raw.

I'm not going to deny that there ARE some posters at DOL who can sometimes come across as arrogant/uncaring and just a bit patronising but I'd prefer to chalk that up to the fact that they're probably kinder to doggies than they are to people and in their haste to protect Canine Welfare, they forget that advice is usually most palatable when given with sympathy and understanding rather than grrr grrr grrr

I would understand it if you decided to leave but I would be sorry if you left because I think that you and little Marley can learn a lot of stuff from this place and it's harder to get the same sort of informed discussion and advice offline. You clearly love your puppy and want to do the right thing by him otherwise you wouldn't spend so much time here reading up, asking questions and wanting to learn more. Do not be deterred by adversity!

*big hug* As someone who also has a naughty and lovable little cross-breed doggy of dubious parentage, I have nothing but sympathy for you I wish you all the best with little Marley.

Edited July 14, 2010 by koalathebear

[Miranda]

I have just read back thru the thread- and saw , as well as Nekhbet's usual sound advice, a lot of attempts to explain to you what was happening, and suggest things which may help..perhaps you didn't realise what people were trying to say .

I agree, personally I can't understand what you're getting worked up about, after all this is a public forum so you have to expect lots of different posting styles and some people are more direct than others.

Anyway good luck with your dog.

[poodlefan]

No-one accept Nekhbet has offered me anything that might help

You were advised not to let your daughters pick up the dog or touch him when he was sleeping, to buy a crate and crate train him and to seek professional help. You were further advised to tighten up the boundaries with this pup, to involve your daughters in his training. and to keep him off the furniture.

I guess we only see what we want to see.

Nekbet is the only dog training professional that responded. No one in their right mind is going to give you any advice on how to tackle this issue directly if they've not seen the dog in person. With any form of aggression, that's just plain irresponsible. All other advice was directed towards managing the pup to prevent a recurrence.

MM, YOU were the one who made it out to be a big deal (very properly I thought) and if you now choose to downplay the issue so be it. Personally I think you'll be doing yourself and your pup a disfavour if you leave here. My guess is that this won't be the last issue you confront with this pup and this is a great place for advice, even if you don't enjoy reading all of it and you choose to ignore most of it.

Best of luck.

Oops back again

Did you say your son feeds the dog?

Edited July 14, 2010 by poodlefan

[poodlefan]

I'm not going to deny that there ARE some posters at DOL who can sometimes come across as arrogant/uncaring and just a bit patronising but I'd prefer to chalk that up to the fact that they're probably kinder to doggies than they are to people and in their haste to protect Canine Welfare, they forget that advice is usually most palatable when given with sympathy and understanding rather than grrr grrr grrr

Some of us were also trying to prevent a child from being bitten - a very real risk in this scenario. I've lost count of new posters here who came for sympathy, took issue with frank advice and somehow interpreted it as a personal slight but in the end came to find that all the in the world didn't help their dog.

Witness the long term DOLer (now) who got mightily offended when her aging dog was described by some as "morbidly obese" and was told by the "nice people" that he was too old to be dieted, it would be cruel to do it and just to let him be. She cowboyed up, took the diet advice, shed kilos of the dog and he got a whole new lease of life. How would sympathy have helped there?

Once a bite has occured, you're in damage control in more ways than one. The dog has learned that biting deters unwanted human behaviour and to be quite frank its unlikely to ever "unlearn" that lesson.

You end up with a dog with a very low bite threshold, a child that's probably scared of the dog (I think the OP already has one of these) and potentialyl another dog in the pound with zero prospects of rehoming.

If people get a little blunt about their advice, bear in mind how many times the scenario outlined above plays out in homes all over this country because the signals a dog is sending out loud and clear get ignored. And its not just dogs that pay the price when it happens.

Edited July 14, 2010 by poodlefan

[Rebanne]

If people get a little blunt about their advice, bear in mind how many times the scenario outlined above plays out in homes all over this country because the signals a dog is sending out loud and clear get ignored. And its not just dogs that pay the price when it happens.

[koalathebear]

If people get a little blunt about their advice, bear in mind how many times the scenario outlined above plays out in homes all over this country because the signals a dog is sending out loud and clear get ignored. And its not just dogs that pay the price when it happens.

I know and I wasn't actually talking about you - I always find your posts very thoughtful and helpful in my Elbie matters

I guess my worry is that in some cases, the thin-skinned poster runs away and the only casualty will be the poor dog because if the owner isn't getting the advice from here, he/she might be getting it from somewhere less desirable and the poor pup ends up devolving and ends up at the pound or worse :'( I just think if we can keep the person here and talking - maintaining a line of communication - there's more of a chance at finding an approach that works.

Edited July 14, 2010 by koalathebear

[poodlefan]

If people get a little blunt about their advice, bear in mind how many times the scenario outlined above plays out in homes all over this country because the signals a dog is sending out loud and clear get ignored. And its not just dogs that pay the price when it happens.

I know and I wasn't actually talking about you - I always find your posts very thoughtful and helpful in my Elbie matters

I guess my worry is that in some cases, the thin-skinned poster runs away and the only casualty will be the poor dog because if the owner isn't getting the advice from here, he/she might be getting it from somewhere less desirable and the poor pup ends up devolving and ends up at the pound or worse :'( I just think if we can keep the person here and talking - maintaining a line of communication - there's more of a chance at finding an approach that works.

Not to worry KTB, I've had plenty of accusations of "newb bashing" levelled at me over the years and some posters will reject any advice that isn't what they want to hear as a personal slight. All I can say is that most posters play by the forum rules. This is a public forum and if people want to ask for advice, sometimes they are going to get views that are more than they bargained for. Some sifting may be required but generally folk get a lot of help here. It just doesn't always come sugar coated.

[WreckitWhippet]

Probably me PF but I've posted the same way for however many years and if people don't like it they can lump it.

[koalathebear]

Err I wasn't even talking this post which was a pretty gentle and caring one. I was thinking about some other posts where newbies have been mauled and run away forever.

SBT123: I am pretty certain I have never been mauled by you

I remember a post on a different forum (actually the one that made me come running here) where a very panicked young girl (think she was a teenager) had been given a 5 week old puppy by her aunt. She had absolutely no idea what to do with it - thought that all she needed to was spread newspapers in a room and leave it there. Worse, she was going on holiday for a week and thought she could keep it locked in that room for the week with just an aunt coming in once a day to look in on the poor puppy. The posters on that forum immediately started shouting her down:

1. puppy too young why have you got a puppy that young

2. of course that's not the way to toilet train the pup

3. of course you can't leave it on its own blah blah blah

4. what kind of person are you to get a pup that young and then leave

The girl defended herself a bit feebly at first, explaining it was an unsolicited gift etc etc but in the end, she was so upset, she deleted her post and never came back. Clearly she had no one in her family who had the first clue about pup raising and I really worried about the fate of that girl and that puppy and wished that people had been kinder to her so that she could have been given some advice about what to do.

Edited July 14, 2010 by koalathebear

[Marley'z Mum]

ok I just had to come back and really well to be honest, maybe move on from this

I guess we only see what we want to see

I've lost count of new posters here who came for sympathy, took issue with frank advice and somehow interpreted it as a personal slight but in the end came to find that all the in the world didn't help their dog.

it is not a case of me only seeing what I wanted to see.... yes I was advised those things, but several times.... I was never down playing this issue, if you read back over the post I thought it was a issue from the start, and had people tell me that it can't be aggression he is only a baby!

I NEVER came here looking for sympathy, I came wanting idea's, I don't need sympathy!

Koalathebear, you have a way with words.... I really don't want to leave this forum, I find it very informative, there are plenty of dog owner's in the world that aren't on here, but I DO enjoy it and have found alot of advice so far very helpful, but cant help but feel there are some that are "looking down there nose at me" so to speak

poodlefan, believe me when I say I am not down playing this issue, I honestly believe it goes back to the pain issue (I could be wrong) the reason I say that is, puppy's get under your feet, a couple of times I have caught a little bit of paw or toe under foot, with me, he will just retreat, while I apologise like crazy, well today, after I post last, he got under my daughter's feet just slightly, and he barked at her as if to tell her off? maybe he has no confidence in her not hurting him?? I rang to book him into his puppy classes today, while talkin to her she asked if he had anything we wanted to work on, as she runs a smaller class on a saturday morning... so we are off to that class aswell, hopefully she can help.... if I get no success I will seek further help

I believe also that I saved this lil pup from what would have probably ended up being a horrible life, as I believe had they not sold him they probably would have kept him, and he would have had a miserable life from what I saw... he is a work in progress

Did you say your son feeds the dog?

Yes, why?

[persephone]

I rang to book him into his puppy classes today, while talkin to her she asked if he had anything we wanted to work on, as she runs a smaller class on a saturday morning... so we are off to that class aswell, hopefully she can help.... if I get no success I will seek further help

That sounds a good plan

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

MM you seem to be "yes butting" a lot which makes it really difficult to help.

if your dog bites your child there is no going back from there. that is all people are worried about.

your "yes but" responses may mean no one will post any more cause it seems you are not taking any advice on board.

[poodlefan]

Did you say your son feeds the dog?

Yes, why?

Because he's the only child you say the pup doesn't seem to react aggressively to.

I suggest you start rotating the feeding duties among all three children. The food provider is the bringer of good things. I don't know if it will help adjust the pup's attitude but it sure can't hurt.

Edited July 14, 2010 by poodlefan