Aggression Towards My Girls

[Marley'z Mum]

Hi all

for those that don't know me, I have 12week old bitza..... the mouthing the kids issue is nearly sorted, but this morning I have discovered a new issue regarding the kids, well my girls to be exact.... I have 3 kids girl 14 boy 13 and girl 8.... I have discoverd that puppy thinks he is more important than the girls, well atleast thats what I think it is..... when the puppy is asleep or just laying somewhere if the girls try to pick him up or move him, he will growl and snap at them, they aren't doing it all the time so its not that the puppy is just fed up.... he doesnt do it to my son, my son feeds him in the mornings, and he doesnt do it to me or OH.

I have decided to start the TOT program with him and may have to start it for the girls aswell..... but any other ideas would be much appreciated, I don't want him to turn into a big dog that the girls have to stay away from when he is sleeping

Thanks in advance

[poodlefan]

The first thing you need to do is teach your kids to respect the pup's space and NOT to touch him when he's sleeping or lying.

The next thing I'd recommend is you establishing a crate or pen where he can get away from the kids and that they are told is out of bounds to them.

He needs his sleep and he's not a toy. The growling and snapping are warnings.. heed them.

It may be as simple as them not handling him as well as the older members of the family do - they could be hurting him inadvertantly. Get them to call him if they want to play and to leave him on the ground as much as possible. He's only going to get bigger.

[spottychick]

Awww he's just a wee baby LOL He doesn't know what he's doing yet

Even if the girls aren't accidentally hurting him they may be startling him or approaching him in a way that he's not comfortable with - that can happen even if the girls have the best of intentions. I've known my dogs to be wary of the energy of young girls sometimes LOL - not sure what it is.

I doubt he thinks anything as sophisticated as "I'm more important" LOL As poodlefan says, it's far more likely to be some sort of instinctive self-protection than anything. If they want to move him, make sure they say his name first (in a happy tone) and call him, maybe just whistle him and/or have a treat in their hand to lure him away from wherever it is they want him to move from - all this can be done without physically handling him. And give him praise/pats when he moves too. They will (hopefully) find that once he's fully awake and knows nothing is wrong and a treats on offer they can touch him with no problems.

ETA - Highly recommend the TOT programme

Edited July 11, 2010 by spottychick

[Fordogs]

Definitely teach your kids NOT to disturb your puppy, puppies need their sleep !!!

Would you allow someone to pick up your sleeping baby? It's the same thing !!!

[Marley'z Mum]

i think i may have been a lil misunderstood.... 99% of the time the girls leave him alone when sleeping, i am talkin bout when he needs to be moved an i am busy for some reason, if i am goin out, or not goin to be in that specific room

Ppl are always tlkin bout puppies learning there place in there pack, he never does it to me, my OH or my son, just the girls, maybe he thinks he is higher in the pack than the girls.... I dont want to have the girls having to make a wide birth of the dog when he is sleeping for fear they will walk past the wrong way

Fordogs, i dont think u can really make the comparison, a sleeping new baby wont wake like a puppy when u pik it up...

[huski]

Double post

Edited July 11, 2010 by huski

[huski]

I dont think it's a pack thing. Often dogs don't even consciously growl when they are suddenly woken - just like when we wake with a jolt when suddenly woken or disturbed by a bad dream it's the same for dogs.

I totally agree with Poodlefan - get him a crate or pen so it's not an issue when your kids walk past and so he can have his own space to escape to. When you need to move him only wake him up by gently calling him so he doesn't get startled.

[poodlefan]

i think i may have been a lil misunderstood.... 99% of the time the girls leave him alone when sleeping, i am talkin bout when he needs to be moved an i am busy for some reason, if i am goin out, or not goin to be in that specific room

Ppl are always tlkin bout puppies learning there place in there pack, he never does it to me, my OH or my son, just the girls, maybe he thinks he is higher in the pack than the girls.... I dont want to have the girls having to make a wide birth of the dog when he is sleeping for fear they will walk past the wrong way

Fordogs, i dont think u can really make the comparison, a sleeping new baby wont wake like a puppy when u pik it up...

If he doesn't growl at the girls unless they move him or wake him, what makes you think them walking past will be a problem?

He's 12 weeks old - a baby. Any dominance issues are likely to be down the track some.

I think you should look toward what's happening in your daughters' interactions with the pup rather than looking towards dominance related answers. Many issues are human, not dog created, so its best to eliminate those first.

As I've said, HOW do they move him? Why can't they call him? If he sleeps in a dedicated space that's his spot, he won't NEED to be moved when asleep.

Edited July 11, 2010 by poodlefan

[Marley'z Mum]

the laundry is his room, he sleeps in there at night, it has a baby gate to keep him in, he has his bed in there his food an water, his toys, he can come an go as he pleases, he chooses not to go in there during the day, he sleeps on the couch or one of the single chairs....

Poodlefan i am by no means blaming the dog i absolutely believe a dog will behave a certain way if treated a certain way, i understand the girls are prob doing something but also think the tone has been set an i am trying to fix it b4 it gets to bad

When he is called especially if asleep an comfortable where he is he wont move sometimes even 4 me

Thanks for ur advice, hopefully i can get it sorted :-)

[poodlefan]

the laundry is his room, he sleeps in there at night, it has a baby gate to keep him in, he has his bed in there his food an water, his toys, he can come an go as he pleases, he chooses not to go in there during the day, he sleeps on the couch or one of the single chairs....

Poodlefan i am by no means blaming the dog i absolutely believe a dog will behave a certain way if treated a certain way, i understand the girls are prob doing something but also think the tone has been set an i am trying to fix it b4 it gets to bad

When he is called especially if asleep an comfortable where he is he wont move sometimes even 4 me

Thanks for ur advice, hopefully i can get it sorted :-)

Laundries are heat sinks - the coldest room in any house.

I'd suggest you think about crate training him.

If you have not commenced obedience training with him, I'd recommend that too. You train him and all the family can reinforce that training.

[Nekhbet]

if they need to wake the pup get them to call the dog happily and clap their hands to wake it first then try and move it. If you are still having problems even after being woken then your pup needs some better rules and regulations as to what is acceptable around people. A good rule anyway is no free range on the furniture and teach the dog the 'down' or 'get off' command so they dont have to pick him up to necessarily move him. He shoudlnt have to be asked, when you say off you mean it non negotiably.

It can happen in as young as 12 weeks (and younger - I have seen 10 week olds stand their ground eyeballing human males like come on, try me) but dont panic, true aggressive tendencies at this age are quite rare. Nip it in the bud and most of all remain calm about it.

Edited July 11, 2010 by Nekhbet

[Marley'z Mum]

Nekhbet, thankyou, truly believe there was a little more to this behaviour than just him bein slightly startled, tis hard to explain to people through this....

Poodlefan please believe me when i say, i do the absolute very best i can for this little man, i understand how cold the laundry can get, he has a heat bag in there, that gets heated up a couple times a night due to OH workin shift work... I have thought bout crate training him, but crates are expensive, i cant justify that kind of money when it isnt something i absolutely need, an before u say something bout shouldnt have a dog if i cant afford it, my partner an i both work, i also have 3 school age children, if something went wrong with him an he needed the vet then of course i would find the money, again if its not something i absolutely need i can think of better places for that kind of money... We start puppy classes next week i hope to follow it with obedience classes :-)

[lovemesideways]

Young girls are prone to loving their puppies a little too much. It may seem like harmless interaction to you, but being constantly loved, hugged, kissed, patted. Well think about it, it can get annoying! Maybe your puppy is just a little sick of the attention, and its getting to the point where he feels like he needs to say "Back off, this is my time"

I agree with Nekhbet, there has got to be rules. You say move, he moves. No questions asked.

[Marley'z Mum]

lovemesideways, i can understand that this might be the case for my youngest who is 8, but honestly she isnt like that with him, because of this, plus she knows he gets a lil excited at times an can be bitey an she doesnt like it, an the other daughter is 14 so not so much a "little girl" so personally dont think its just that, also there are rules, when me, my OH or my son say move, he moves or gets moved no questions asked

[dancinbcs]

the laundry is his room, he sleeps in there at night, it has a baby gate to keep him in, he has his bed in there his food an water, his toys, he can come an go as he pleases, he chooses not to go in there during the day, he sleeps on the couch or one of the single chairs....

Poodlefan i am by no means blaming the dog i absolutely believe a dog will behave a certain way if treated a certain way, i understand the girls are prob doing something but also think the tone has been set an i am trying to fix it b4 it gets to bad

When he is called especially if asleep an comfortable where he is he wont move sometimes even 4 me

Thanks for ur advice, hopefully i can get it sorted :-)

I would be making the couch and chairs out of bounds for now. Get him his own bed of some sort to go in the room he prefers to be in and insist he sleep on that. Otherwise shut him out of that room. BTW my puppies have always slept int he laundry with no problems but I do have a coated breed. A 12 week old puppy shouldn't be getting to choose where he sleeps. Until he is 100% obedient he has not earnt that right.

Once you can invite him up on the couch and he will get down immediately when told by any member of the family, he has earnt the right to get up there.

If you are worried about him thinking he ranks above the girls, getting him off the furniture is the best place to start.

Try to get hold of the book "Think Dog" by John Fisher. It is a fantastic guide to establishing rank in a non confrontational way.

[poodlefan]

Just out of interest, do you know what breed/s are in your pup's background.

Some breeds are less tolerant than others and some have lower bite thresholds and inhibition than others. Some idea of what sort of dog you're dealing with may help.

[koalathebear]

Just out of interest, do you know what breed/s are in your pup's background.

Some breeds are less tolerant than others and some have lower bite thresholds and inhibition than others. Some idea of what sort of dog you're dealing with may help.

Hee hee. That issue was a subject of not just one but two threads!

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...=199043&hl=

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...=199133&hl=

I think the end conclusion was 'part teddy bear'

[poodlefan]

Just out of interest, do you know what breed/s are in your pup's background.

Some breeds are less tolerant than others and some have lower bite thresholds and inhibition than others. Some idea of what sort of dog you're dealing with may help.

Hee hee. That issue was a subject of not just one but two threads!

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...=199043&hl=

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...=199133&hl=

I think the end conclusion was 'part teddy bear'

I even responded in one.

I wouldn't like to hazard a guess as to breed make up - so no help there.

[Marley'z Mum]

lol @ koalathebear, he certainly has teddy bear in there, hopefully will be able to see what he has in him more when he is older.....

Will start makin more rules bout the couch, see how that goes, maybe drag his bed out the laundry during the day... The couch makes it easier to cuddle the teddy bear hehehe

[Genabee]

I definitely recommend dragging his bed around the house! We do it with Genevieve - drag her house around that is.

And when we have had enough, I say 'Go to your house!' and point to it. She usually sits and looks at me with her dog chops, but then I give her 'the look' and she wanders into her house. And for the most part she is quite happy in there, as long as she can still see us and what is going on.

She also knows she is not allowed on the couch uninvited. So she sits at our feet waiting. She also does the same when I am sitting at the table having breaky. She just sits and waits!

I'm sure your little guy will get there too!! He sounds like a bit of a character!