Hon.d.boyle Kill Amstaffs Set Pit Bulls Free?

[tybrax]

There only trying to find a loophole to cover there own butts.

One big can of worms has been opened..... because they failed.

tybrax

[geo]

I've worked in Labs for a large part of my life, so i know a bit about testing, sampling, chain of custody etc..

Get all the paperwork, postage, any info you have on when they tested and present it to their lawyers.

The bitsa test will have to be proven to work and be accurate, once they have the supporting documentation, most should be available off the website,

they should be ok.

Seriously what a bunch of morons they have in charge at the GCCC, i just got my rates today and i'm even more unhappy!!!

[kylielou]

Just to show you, that not only do we know that the DNA test works here in Australia, but even in the USA their are other affected dog owners who have problems with councils trying to falsely identify their pets as Pit bulls.

Bad luck the whole world uses the internet.

Open this and play from half way through, 3:25, Logan Timms, I think you will get the point.

Have fun watching

I think David Letterman should run for mayor for the GCCC or at least Head of Animal Control as he is as smart as they are.

Edited July 18, 2010 by kylielou

[sumosmum]

Whoops, think the secret is out now! :laugh:

[kylielou]

Recently, DNA testing became available to determine a dog’s heritage.

"These scientific advances have impacted breed identifications by animal control wardens, police officers and even veterinarians.

If a city or state has adopted a breed-discriminatory law, the burden of proof is on city officials to prove that a dog is a member of the targeted breed, either through preponderance of evidence or in some cases -- if there are criminal penalties – beyond a reasonable doubt.

In Kansas City, a man won his eight-month legal battle with the city to keep his dog, Niko, after DNA testing proved Niko wasn’t a pit bull, as the animal-control wardens had asserted. Niko was housed at animal control for

The entire eight months of the court case, at a great cost to the town taxpayers. Niko, a mixed-breed dog, is now back home after the ordeal."

Perth

Dog laws are useless: rangers

• Jim Kelly

• From: AAP

• January 05, 2007 10:00PM

TOUGH dog laws to eradicate dangerous breeds are not working and should be scrapped, the WA Rangers Association says.

“But the association, which represents council rangers responsible for enforcement, says the legislation is difficult to police and even harder to prosecute.

Association president Samantha Tarling said the close genetic make-up of dog breeds made it impossible to prove a dog was a pit bull terrier, even with DNA testing, and owners were getting around the laws by claiming their pets were a different breed.

"People are registering pit bulls as a boxer cross, which is legal,'' Ms Tarling said. ``Not even the chief vet at the Agriculture Department will stand up in court and say `This is a pit bull'.''

Next let’s start getting dogs that have been ordered out of the state back home, one comes to mind, a dog called "Bella" for Logan City Council.

Her crime, she was light tan, with a bully head, four legs and a tail and experts from Logan City Council using the 22 point checklist, now proven to be false in the Supreme court, said she was a Pit bull terrier. (Chivers Vs GCCC, the validity of the 22 point checklist went unchallenged).

Expert, Debora Pomeroy, the person who trains and created the 22 point checklist must be feeling very sick at this time as she has killed 100's of dogs using her system training many other Animal Control Officers to do the same making a tidy packet at the same time, also owning a pure bred Amstaff...sorry I mean Pit bull terrier.

We will let you know how we go.

Edited July 17, 2010 by kylielou

[kylielou]

BITSA. is Australasia’s first canine, DNA based, breed identification test. This innovative test detects the breed, or mixture of breeds that make up your dog. BITSA can identify breed signatures as far back as three generations and can define, provided they are present, the primary (parent), secondary (grandparent) and distant (great-grandparent) breeds in your dog’s ancestry.

How does BITSA work?

A DNA sample is obtained by using a pain-free, non-invasive cheek swab. This sample is then analysed using the latest state of the art DNA technology and a unique breed signature is generated for your dog. Your dog’s unique signature is cross-referenced against our extensive breed database and the breeds in your dog are identified. Results are then reported and given to you with an accurate and understandable analysis of your dog’s true breed composition.

What are breed signatures and how were they developed?

Breed signatures are a genetic representation of a particular canine breed. Our breed signature databases were developed using registered pedigree dogs, whose reference samples were collected at dog shows across Australia. This ensures that we have the best quality canine pedigree breed signatures.

How accurate is the test?

Our breed signatures have been generated from over 20,000 known pure breed dogs. We are confident that our breed signatures are an accurate representation of the breeds we claim to detect. Our databases and breed signatures are being continually updated with new breeds and additional reference samples so that we can continue to provide our clients with the most accurate results. Currently, BITSA proudly maintains greater than 95% accuracy for all its test results.

How do I collect a sample?

BITSA uses the easiest and most comfortable sample collection method for your dog. The process is simple and owners can collect the sample themselves. Simply place the provided swab against the inside of the dog’s cheek and swirl in a circular motion, then put the swab in the tamper proof bag and send it away. There is no need for a vet and no stress for you or your dog.

When will I recieve my results and what will they explain?

Turn around time is as quick as 15 working days from the receipt of your dog’s sample. A BITSA report will be mailed to you outlining:

The breeds found in your dog’s ancestry

A history of how each breed was developed

A unique PAWS rating system summarising the traits you may observe in your dog

Health concerns affecting the breed or breeds found in your dog

Games and activities your furry friend will love to play

In addition to your BITSA report a certificate of DNA analysis will be included, explaining the breeds found in your dog, as well as a personalised ‘Doggy Passport’; a wallet sized card with a photograph of your dog and a list of your dog’s breeds. (Photographs are optional and only required if you would like to add a picture of your dog to the passport at no extra charge).

Can BITSA tell me if my dog is purebred?

BITSA cannot be used as a means of obtaining official papers nor can it serve as evidence of a pedigree dog.

What breeds can BITSA identify?

BITSA can currently identify 62 breeds, with additional breeds to be added and updated on a regular basis. Identifiable breeds as of January 2009 include:

Alaskan Malamute

Golden Retriever

American Staffordshire Terrier

Great Dane

Australian Cattle Dog

Greyhound

Australian Shepherd

Irish Setter

Australian Stumpy Tailed Cattle Dog

Italian Greyhound

Australian Terrier

Jack Russell Terrier

Basset Hound

Kelpie

Beagle

koolie

Bichon Frise

Labrador Retriever

Border Collie

Maltese

Boston Terrier

Neapolitan Mastiff

Boxer

Papillon

British Bulldog

Pointer

Bull Mastiff

Pomeranian

Bull Terrier

Poodle (Standard)

Bull Terrier (Miniature)

Poodle (Miniature)

Cairn Terrier

Poodle (Toy)

Cavalier King Charles Spaniel

Pug

Chihuahua (Long-haired)

Rhodesian Ridgeback

Chihuahua (Short-haired)

Rottweiler

Chow Chow

Scottish Terrier

Cocker Spaniel

Shih Tzu

Curly Coated Retriever

Shiba Inu

Dalmatian

Siberian Husky

Daschund

Silky Terrier

Dobermann

Staffordshire Bull Terrier

Dogue de Bordeaux

Tibetan Spaniel

English Springer Spanielr

Tenterfield Terrier

Fox Terrier

Weimaraner

German Shepherd

West Highland White Terrier

German Shorthaired Pointer

Whippet

What if my dog doesn’t look like the breeds reported?

We encourage our customers to understand that our Breed Signatures are based on the purest pedigree dogs, and thus a true BITSA (dogs with mixed breed parents and grandparents) may not exhibit the exact features of the breeds detected. It is also important to realise that primary breeds are the result of at least one pure bred dog being present at the parental level in your dog’s ancestry.

Many canine traits are diluted with other characteristics. For example a primary German Shepherd and a secondary Golden Retriever may look very much like a German Shepherd, though with slight differences, such as a slightly longer coat, different shaped ears and a marginally warmer coloured coat.

Why doesn’t my dog have a breed for every generation?

It is important to understand that BITSA can only detect breeds that are present in a dog’s ancestry. Sometimes in a dog’s ancestry either one or both parents can be termed ‘outbred’ (dogs with mixed breed parents and grandparents). In this case a distinct breed signature is not present within a dog’s DNA. As the dog is heavily mixed, this may prevent a primary or secondary breed from being determined. There is also a possibility that a dog may be termed a 'True BITSA', a very unique dog that has so many minute traces of various breeds that they are truly one in a million, just like Dave of the Lort Smith Animal Hospital.

http://www.bitsa.com.au/

__________________

[kylielou]

Message from Cr Crichlow

John

I asked the question about the DNA testing - have received the following answer- FYI -

We are happy to do it but require their permission if you can suggest they give it to us we will have it done straight away. We have no evidence that the dogs they used for the test were theirs. The test results were dated in June but the dogs were in the pound since May? If they come back OK we can exempt the dogs if necessary and return them as long as no AmStaff is in the DNA line.

Kind regards

Dawn

Edited July 20, 2010 by kylielou

[geo]

Message from Cr Crichlow

John

I asked the question about the DNA testing - have received the following answer- FYI -

We are happy to do it but require their permission if you can suggest they give it to us we will have it done straight away. We have no evidence that the dogs they used for the test were theirs. The test results were dated in June but the dogs were in the pound since May? If they come back OK we can exempt the dogs if necessary and return them as long as no AmStaff is in the DNA line.

Kind regards

Dawn

I'd get a vet to take the swab, and be present at the time if possible.

What percent amstaff does it have to be to be deemed illegal? i thought it was at least 50 or even 75%

Does anyone know what is happening to all the registered amstaffs on the coast?

[kylielou]

This is the million dollar question, you see the GCCC only did what they did to stop one dog "Tango" from being allowed to return back to the Gold Coast, the fall out and the fact that like the email from Animal Control to Cr Dawn, they have admitted that the only Pit bulls now in Australia are Amstaffs.

"If they come back OK we can exempt the dogs if necessary and return them as long as no AmStaff is in the DNA line."

They also know that around 100% of all the Pit bulls I and Logan Timms have test results for, come back at not being Amstaffs, so the Pit bulls are free to do as they want, next time the Gold Coast City Council spend over $500,000.00 on legal fees out of spite, they may think twice.

This is only the start, we are testing other dogs forced out of the state, they will also come back not Amstaffs.

The question, what are they doing to the Amstaffs, nothing... this all was to try and get one up on Kylie Chivers for showing the world how stupid the GCCC are, funny they did a better job than we could.

[kylielou]

Desley's for sale:

In Qld, in the hands of good, responsible, caring, owners, the dog will grow to be a loving rewarding pet, in the hands of irresponsible, cruel, bad owners will end up with a dog that is a problem to the community, just like any other dog breed.

This breed of dog was born out of ignorance, over zealousness, ego’s out of control and malice, (GCCC) lack of control, Nonfeasance and bureaucratic ineptitude, (Minister local Government)

For_Sale.doc

Edited July 20, 2010 by kylielou

[tybrax]

Message from Cr Crichlow

John

I asked the question about the DNA testing - have received the following answer- FYI -

We are happy to do it but require their permission if you can suggest they give it to us we will have it done straight away. We have no evidence that the dogs they used for the test were theirs. The test results were dated in June but the dogs were in the pound since May? If they come back OK we can exempt the dogs if necessary and return them as long as no AmStaff is in the DNA line.

Kind regards

Dawn

So laughable, and pathetic and the same time.

[kylielou]

We have started our own Dog Club, The Queensland Pet - Bull Association, with our own pedigree certificates, how do you think they look.

[RottnBullies]

So true though!

[WreckitWhippet]

As much as you want to jump up and down, the results of any swabs taken by an owner would not be considered valid. Taking your own DNA swab to satisfy your own curiosity is different to taking a sample that you want to rely on in court.

The samples should have been taken by and authorised DNA collection officer or a Vet. The animals microchip is scanned and recorded at them time, so as to ensure the identity of the dog.

I suggest they have them taken again by someone that is authorised to do so and resubmitt and that anyone else considering using DNA as evidence that there dog is not a retricted breed, do the same. They have essentially wasted their money and do not have a leg to stand on. Whilst the DNA results may be irrfutable, the method of collection is not.

[kylielou]

SBT123, I have been the person who has taken DNA samples and had this run through the courts many times, you do not need a PHD to take samples and remember with every dog you must allow the council access to the dog as there must not be any doubt.

The kits have very good instructions, if you want there is no reason to stop you or someone else taking a video, or if need be get the Council to be their when you take the swabs.

I recommend they do the same.

J

[WreckitWhippet]

Council is right though, the samples submitted could have come from any dog.

Collection by an authorised officer, who scans at the time of collection and signs off on the samples, removes any doubt, but of course there are those who like to make it more difficult for themselves and GCCC would not have been able to make such claims had the sample been collected properly in the first place.

[kylielou]

Thinks about it, they have no problem taking your dog but can't take a DNA sample from the same animal, the pound has a Vet working 25 meters from the dog.

Let’s face it, here on the Gold Coast, this council won't like anyone doing a DNA test, proving, that Pit bulls and Amstaffs are not the same in Australia, even they have said, if the dog comes back as an Amstaff, then it is a Restricted dog, Pit bulls are free!!!!

The Qld Government has no other option but to drop the BSL section of the Animal Management Cats and Dog Bill 2008, as it is not in the Governments best interest to be letting Pit bulls free without restrictions in the community all because of the GCCC tricking a Judge into making a bad ruling.

If one of the Non-Pit bulls was to attack someone, then the Government and the GCCC are up s#@t Creek and they know it.

One day they might make up a law to control bad dog owners.

I do take your point, but here is how the mind of the GCCC works, Tango was born from a Sire and Dam who were both Amstaffs. I had a DNA paternity test done to prove this, the mother's sister was a dog called Miss Maude, (Miss Maude was the dog used to show what an American staffordire terrier was to look like in the first training manual produced to train all Councils and ACO) Reg Amstaff, but still Tango was a Pit bull terrier?? The judge worked it out in seconds; the GCCC has still argued the point for 6 years?

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

- Upton Beall Sinclair

Jr. American novelist and polemicist, 1878-1968

J

Edited July 22, 2010 by kylielou

[geo]

Council is right though, the samples submitted could have come from any dog.

Collection by an authorised officer, who scans at the time of collection and signs off on the samples, removes any doubt, but of course there are those who like to make it more difficult for themselves and GCCC would not have been able to make such claims had the sample been collected properly in the first place.

Just because someone doesn't know the ins and out of sampling procedures with regards to the law etc.. doesn't mean they "like" to make it more difficult for themselves! Hindsight is 20/20.

I'm guessing they got excited about getting their dogs back. Dogs who've done nothing wrong.

The GCCC would've had these dealings before when it comes to all their environmental sampling etc.. so they're probably following protocol, they'll just pay for the extra tests and get the same results and then we'll see what excuse they'll make.

It would be nice if the dogs could be allowed home pending the results

[geo]

The Qld Government has no other option but to drop the BSL section of the Animal Management Cats and Dog Bill 2008, as it is not in the Governments best interest to be letting Pit bulls free without restrictions in the community all because of the GCCC tricking a Judge into making a bad ruling.

Maybe we really shouldn't tell them of their mistakes, can we hide this thread... I'm sure it's not the dogs that need restricting but the owners, i'm sure that's what you meant

[kylielou]

Thats my point, they know (GCCC), the Qld Government know, the Minister the Hon Desley Boyle knows, now everyone knows, it's time they fixed this problem, not hide from it.

Edited July 22, 2010 by kylielou