I Can't Do It Anymore

[Souff]

Thank you all so much for your support. We are back from the vet and Champa is fine. He threw up all over the car as we were pulling in to the carpark and was much happier then.

but of course!

Trash the garage and then throw up in the car when your obedient servant is seeking help!

Kirty, you need to talk to Nekhbet methinks... soon

Souff

[corvus]

YES!!!!! So that's what you technically call it! I'll be doing some research on that! Googleing 'anxiety' and 'routine' didn't bring me much relevant information.

Most of the work that's been done on coping styles is about humans, but there's been a bit done on lab animals. The human stuff is probably at least a little bit relevant, but I don't think anyone knows exactly how relevant. There's this paper here that is not wildly difficult to follow and talks about the characteristics of two different coping styles (proactive and reactive). One is not better than the other, mind.

Another group did a study with police dogs and claimed a third coping style, that of ambivalence. The dog can't decide whether to attack or retreat.

[WoofnHoof]

OMG I came home to a disaster zone the other day, Sonny had gotten my bag (which I thought I had put out of reach but obviously not) and gone into the bag and gotten out my beautiful purse which my mum got for my birthday last year and chewed it to shreds I was so devastated I just had a rant and a rave while he went into the yard and waited for the storm to settle!

I know it was my fault he hadn't had enough exercise recently with moving and lots of stuff to do so he was starting to get a bit bored but it was still a shock and very distressing for some reason they often pick the stuff you really really didn't want chewed! The horse is the same I'll get him a beautiful rug and he will find some way of trashing it, I actually have a whole collection of rugs that he hardly ever wears because I don't trust him with them! Daisy is starting to be hard on rugs too the little snot!

[tez]

I feel your pain Kirty! What is it about Black Labby Crosses!!!! Jane is another evil one who sees an opportunity and runs with it! The amount of stuff she has distroyed or damaged is not for the faint hearted. Its like she is always on the look-out for a new adventure. No fear of anything and just after a good time constantly and bugger the consequences!

Funnily enough, its her evilness that makes me feel very protective of her. I know that she is very lucky that we have her as many many people probably wouldn't have coped with her personality. I love her to bits but have to admit that she is going to send me insane!

[Kirty]

Thanks for the offer Chewy, but its OK. The paperwork obviously can't be replaced and the fabric wasn't expensive. It was just cotton for show curtains and polar fleece that I use to make blankets for the fosters. Apparently Spotlight has a sale so I'll have to head down there. The carry boxes will still function, they are just chewed and pissed on. He also ripped open the full bags of cat litter and threw them around too... Its quite a sight really!

[noisymina]

Kirty - check out this thread....

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=200114

Specifically, look at the recipe in Aidan's posts.

[Kirty]

Thanks noisy.

[wolfgirl]

Glad Champa is okay

As to why he does the things he does, who knows he is a dog and therefore his reasoning is different to ours. Hugs to you

[Ms Genki]

My deepest sympathies to you, Kirty. I've only had my first loony dog for a less than a year and am struggling to cope. You have, however, inadvertently created a genius thread. I now know that I am not alone and that other people have suffered far worse than a broken window within the first week, dented (brand new) corrugated iron fencing and muddy trashed door bottoms! I can't tell you what a relief it is to know that. It is a constant struggle.

Edited July 11, 2010 by Ms Genki

[dancinbcs]

electric fencing is a godsend for dogs. All I need to do now is put white string around things and they wont dare try it after a few good strong zaps with the ping string.

Oh isnt it just!!! Ours isnt connected to zap anymore but they still wont touch it. In a few weeks I need to section the dogs off the main grass yard to try and salvage the grass and all im going to do is set it up around the parts i dont want them on and voila, dog free zone! Best money ever spent!

Electric fencing can work wonders but with Border Collies it has to be on all the time. They learn very quickly to listen for the hum that indicates it is turned on. If there is no hum they simply charge through. It is quite amusing to watch them standing stock still very close to the tape, listening.

To me Champa sounds like he needs a secure run with an e-collar to stop the howling. Intensive obedience training would proabably also help as well because he doesn't seem to have any understanding of boundaries. Unfortunately at 8 he may be a bit old for this to work.

One thing I have found with my destructive ones in the past was that they needed a large basket of toys they could destroy. From 8 weeks they learn that touching something they shouldn't will get them growled at, and choosing something from their toys is praised. My first destructive dog destroyed or put teeth marks in everything she came in contact with. By the time I had the second one I had learnt about the toy basket. He still couldn't be trusted unsupervised inside the house for a couple of years but that toy basket saved my sanity. The dog was very high drive and channeling that drive into competitive obedience was the other thing that saved him. These were Border Collies though and from experience I know Labs can be a whole different matter all together. They don't have the reputation of the most destructive breed for nothing. God only knows how they manage to train guide dogs to not eat the owners house.

[Kirty]

They have DOZENS of toys in the backyard. And if the kids (or my husband) leave their shoes or toys outside, the dogs destroy them and don't get in trouble. Everyone knows if you leave something outside, its fair game. No point blaming the dog.

Anyway, I am glad to read that other people have had dogs like Champa. We rescued him at about 5 weeks of age and he has done formal obedience training and had lots of socialisation. He is such a great dog is so many other respects - he is fine with the cats and great with the kids, he loves EVERYBODY (he was trying to lick the vet as he took Champa's temperature)... Anyway, I will definitely be looking into the containment systems.

[OSoSwift]

God only knows how they manage to train guide dogs to not eat the owners house.

They don't necessarily! We removed most of a dressing gown from a Guide dogs stomach along with around 50 cm's of large intestine!

He had graduated 6 weeks previously.

[redangel]

I struggled with a rescue who had "issues'...I can certainly sympathise. Despite being trained to novice standard he never grew out of it. two sets of car seatbelts,one car seat. Many doors in the house, plaster.....We had winders on our windows until 'Buster' got to them....window panes chewed.....Finally he taught himself to unwind the windows so all the damage was outside stuff! I told myself that containment was better than the other option. It was getting so bad I would avoid leaving the house for fear of what I might find on my return...put bluntly I had to remember that I was the alpha, he was a dog that in the end it was better for all of us as I was growing resentful toward him out of sheer frustration. It worked for me.

I feel your pain- I cried those tears many a time.

[badboyz]

Just wanted to add a Having had beagles, I know how frustrating and stressful it can be, living with destructive and escapist dogs, although they did not have the strength and power that your boy would have.

This thread just makes me want to hug my shar pei for being so much easier to live with. I've never had one that was destructive or escapist, and I am glad to be reminded of that, though unfortunately at your expense. The chis can make a bit of a mess, but at least it is a very small mess and they are easy to contain.

Good luck with your naughty Champa!

[HeavyPaws]

Darling, we all have sh*t dogs sometimes.

My step Dad's Dane was worse thn yours....way worse. He rejected his kennel by emptying his bowels in it for a week running. We thought he was burying it until we cleaned out the mats inside. Week old dog crap up the walls, ground into the mats, clawed into the floor...

He also loved wheelie bins. He'd open the side gate, drag a wheelie bin into the backyard and begin surgery. He would chew a corner until he chewed right through, then paw out all the rubbish, dissect everything in there and run around the backyard with it, and when the fun was over he'd work on making the hole large enough to crawl through, and then he'd sh*t in it.

When he was a puppy, he wouldn't bark, he would scream. Like a rabbit dying or cats mating, high pitched and wailing. His favourite game was to hide, then scream. It was like trying to find a hidden fire alarm. He thought it was an awesome game, because when we found him we'd be so damn relieved the noise had stopped.

He also was a fan of the ol' "good dog" act. He'd come up with kisses and puppy snuggles, and then sh*t on you.

And happily of all, he lived to the age of 11, years beyond our good well behaved Danes.

It sounds like you're having a hard time, but remember that others always have it worse. Makes you feel better.

[Monah]

I'm terribly sorry Kirty. How awful. I am very very happy Champa did not bloat

Do take a look at Adrians recipe in the other thread that has a link in this thread

Also, I know you have said routine is out, so I'm not saying DO IT. ;) :D

But I will say that there are many dogs (and children and even adults ;) ) who need routine, for many reasons. It does have a calming effect if they know what to expect and when, rather than have no idea what is coming next.

We have one dog who NEEDS routine and one that couldn't care less.

We definately notice a deterioration in behaviour and nerves if the routine is not adhered to. Even though we have travelled all over the country with the dogs (and cats), we have still had their 'routine'. This is also necc for us as we have a couple of diabetic cats who need to eat and be injected at certain times. My 'routine' dog would also not cope with fosters although she does cope OK with visiting animals, but fosters would 'play' with her brain

I'm sure champa has boundaries, but this is especially important with gundogs (IMO). I've had 5 gundogs and found that they respond and behave much better with proper boundaries than without, whereas the sighthounds and working dogs I've had have not 'taken advantage' of any lack of boundaries. IE nothing ,even toys, laying around. They get a toy when I say so. This changed once they learnt that the toys were not available whenever.

Calming exercises are also very important to prevent them going 'over the top' etc.

This may have nothing to do with your dog at all, I really feel for you both. It would have been a terrible shock. Champa sounds very special, I'm sure he has no idea that he is doing the wrong thing when he does it.

The only other thing I can think of is to make sure he cannot get into anything, although it sounds like this may be difficult. Our litter trays/catfood are all in one room that the dogs cannot access as the only access is a very small opening in the door for the cats. all kitchen cupboards have locks, bin is out the front where they cannot get to it etc.

It appears that Champa may be the type to rip a door off its hinges though ;) a friend of mine has no back door as her dog ate it

I hope you are feeling a bit better and Champa too.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[sas]

Darling, we all have sh*t dogs sometimes.

My step Dad's Dane was worse thn yours....way worse. He rejected his kennel by emptying his bowels in it for a week running. We thought he was burying it until we cleaned out the mats inside. Week old dog crap up the walls, ground into the mats, clawed into the floor...

He also loved wheelie bins. He'd open the side gate, drag a wheelie bin into the backyard and begin surgery. He would chew a corner until he chewed right through, then paw out all the rubbish, dissect everything in there and run around the backyard with it, and when the fun was over he'd work on making the hole large enough to crawl through, and then he'd sh*t in it.

When he was a puppy, he wouldn't bark, he would scream. Like a rabbit dying or cats mating, high pitched and wailing. His favourite game was to hide, then scream. It was like trying to find a hidden fire alarm. He thought it was an awesome game, because when we found him we'd be so damn relieved the noise had stopped.

He also was a fan of the ol' "good dog" act. He'd come up with kisses and puppy snuggles, and then sh*t on you.

And happily of all, he lived to the age of 11, years beyond our good well behaved Danes.

It sounds like you're having a hard time, but remember that others always have it worse. Makes you feel better.

Sorry but I could just see all that in my head....part of my dog lives in your Dads old Dane.

I think the unstable one live for longer to punish you For some reason you get pretty attached to them ;)

[OMD²]

I am sorry Dude is the same! It is heart breaking at times and yes sometimes I really do hate him. He destroys everything! He gets enough exercise, he has Oscar to play with etc etc. There is nothing much more I can do with him.. when I am not home I have to lock him in the laundry because there isn't anything to destroy in there. Oscar has free run of everywhere. I know how you feel and how sad/mad it makes you feel.

and for those who think a little dog cannot destroy much.. you are very very very mistaken. I've never met a dog like Dude. He can destroy things in seconds

Edited July 9, 2010 by OMD²

[dee lee]

Kirty, lots of hugs to you- I know how it feels. Vent away anytime!

[RR-Melbourne]

Reading this thread I feel guilty and need to make an open apology to my magnificent boy "Rocky" a 13 month old big Rhodesian Ridgeback. Rocky, I thought you were being naughty when you do not instantly follow a direction. I realise now you are an absolute champion, you have free run of the house and the yard yet have not broken, or knocked over anything in the house and our house is full of trinckets and shirts left hangin up after ironing. While Rocky has been challenging to train, so far he walks beautifully on the lead and when released off the lead responds on recall. SO sorry Rocky for me making unreasonable expectations of you and on the way home I am going to pick up a BBQ Chicken just for you simpley because you are the dog that you are! "I love you Rocky"

Rocky has displayed a very independent streak and is very confident in temperament. In the beginning from an 8 week old pup he resisted me being Alpha, however he never got away with anything and from day one NILIF was applied. Gentle and firm guidance have always been used with Rocky. We use the positive training methods as our philosophy but the cornerstone of our relationship with Rocky has has been routine and consistency.

Good luck to all of you with your dogs.