Need Advice On Dog Containment Systems.

[Fyscha]

Hi All,

I'm after some advice on dog containment systems. I have an elderly neighbour whose dog, George, until recently had the run off the neighbourhood. Right or wrong, even though he lives in town he has never had to worry about fences. As far as I was concerned personally, he never caused any trouble, apart from the occasional poo on my front lawn I was always happy to see George pop round to say hello and so was our staffy. Anyway, understandably ( I suppose ) someone else in the street has complained and now George is tied up pretty much permanently. I only found this out yesterday when I popped round to ask why we hadn't seen him for so long.

So his owner is pretty old, too old to walk him, I've volunteered to walk him when we walk our dog, but apart from that he is tied up because their fence is pretty much non existent in fairly sizeable chunks.

So I'm hoping for suggestions. I know Mac (my neighbour) doesn't want his dog tied up permanently, but I'm not sure how much he can afford to spend on fencing.

It's heart breaking to know George is stuck on the chain so much. He is only a young dog, maybe 3 or so, so he's got a quite few years in him yet. He's a very smart dog, kelpie/blue heeler. But I'm guessing he's had limited formal training, just basic obedience.

I was thinking about a hidden fence, but am not sure about the legalities, I read in another thread that they can only be used in conjunction with a "real fence" in NSW. Plus would also wonder about the amount of training needed to implement it.

Any advice will be gratefully accepted.

Cheers,

Jodie

Edited July 6, 2010 by Fyscha

[Seita]

I'm sure on the legalities in NSW but I have one of these fences to keep my houdini dog in and it's fantastic. There is a fair bit of training involved to start with during which time the dog cannot be allowed to leave the yard unless on a lead or with a handler so the dogs learns the only way out of the yard is with someone. With my dog I found that with shorter fences (or no fences) it was still hard to keep her in with the e-fence as she could see a way out and if she was worked up enough (say for the postie) she would simple cop the shock the collar gave her and keep going. Although I know you can train a dog out of this, it's just a challenge.

I think I'd be more inclined to look at getting the dog a pen so it has some space to wander around without being restrained with at least one (more if possible) trip out of the pen for a walk or a bit of fetch or something like that.

Cost of an electronic containment system is approx $600-$800, you can get a run/pen for about the same, even less for some of them.

[Nekhbet]

containment may keep his in but wont stop others out. His dog risks being attacked if chained up or no fences. He is better off building a dog run or fencing at least some of the yard. Some star pickets and 180cm dog netting will keep the dog in if he's not a hugelly destructive or pushy dog.

I have an elderly neighbour whose dog, George, until recently had the run off the neighbourhood. Right or wrong, even though he lives in town he has never had to worry about fences. As far as I was concerned personally, he never caused any trouble, apart from the occasional poo on my front lawn I was always happy to see George pop round to say hello and so was our staffy.

An owner has a responsibility to the dog. What would happen if George got hit by a car? Or caused a driver to swerve and crash? Was injured, fought with another dog or attacked another? If you want George to say hello clip a leash to his collar and bring him over for play dates.

[Fyscha]

Thanks for the advice. Might try and get some pricing for fencing material for them. I don't know about an e-collar, with the training involved, that might be the downfall, I would be willing to help, but don't think I would have the available tme to do it properly. That and the lack of a physical barrier might make it hard. Thanks for the advice on mesh, I'll look into it. Good point about keeping others out, that hadn't occured to me.

Just for the record, I am aware of a dog owners responsibilities and the many valid reasons why dogs should stay in their yard unless accompanied by their owner. But he's not my dog, and I would never drag my soapbox next door to tell them about their responsibilities. Me enjoying seeing George every now and then is not the same as me agreeing with how he is kept. When I said personally I don't have a problem with it, I meant I don't have a problem with the occasional crap on my lawn. As for as their responsibilities as a dog owner go, it's not my place to worry about it. He's a happy well fed dog, he's not abused, so I live and let live. Personally I wish my neighbours grown children would step up to the plate on this one, but it doesn't seem to be happening. I like George, I like my neighbours, so I'm willing to try to help. That's all.

Thanks again for the advice, it's much appreciated.

Cheers,

Jodie

[Parkeyre]

I have an inground fence system.

It's the PETSAFE Pet Containment In ground Radio Fence, or something along those lines.

I highly recommend it.

If George doesnt have a fence, you'd need to create some kind of visable barrier for him..

Police tap type material, string flags or birthday flags would work.

[Nekhbet]

I am aware of a dog owners responsibilities and the many valid reasons why dogs should stay in their yard unless accompanied by their owner. But he's not my dog, and I would never drag my soapbox next door to tell them about their responsibilities.

Err because its the law, and if George is picked up by the council ranger the fine to go with it quite substantial. If you dont make him aware of it the dog runs the risk of suffering for it, or he will be in the predicament of a hefty fine if he doesnt hit upon a softer ranger willing to let it slide on provision he fixes the fencing.

[Tempus Fugit]

Here is the NSW law:

PREVENTION OF CRUELTY TO ANIMALS ACT 1979 - SECT 16

Certain electrical devices not to be used upon animals

16 Certain electrical devices not to be used upon animals

(1) In this section:

"electrical device" means a device of a type prescribed by the regulations.

"sell" includes:

(a) auction or exchange,

(b) offer, expose, supply or receive for sale, and

© send, forward or deliver for sale or on sale.

(2) A person shall not:

(a) use an electrical device upon an animal,

(b) sell any electrical device, or

© have in his or her possession or custody any electrical device.

Maximum penalty: 250 penalty units in the case of a corporation and 50 penalty units or imprisonment for 6 months, or both, in the case of an individual.

(3) Nothing in subsection (2) prevents a person from:

(a) using an electrical device upon an animal belonging to a prescribed species, or

(b) selling or having in his or her possession or custody an electrical device for use upon an animal belonging to a prescribed species.

PREVENTION OF CRUELTY TO ANIMALS (GENERAL) REGULATION 2006 - REG 10

Prescribed types of electrical devices and prescribed species

10 Prescribed types of electrical devices and prescribed species

For the purposes of the definition of "electrical device" in section 16 (1) of the Act, a type of device listed in Column 1 of Schedule 1 is a prescribed type of electrical device unless it is used for a purpose or in circumstances specified in Column 2 of that Schedule.

I can't get the table below to format as a table so here is a link

Column 1 Column 2

Type of device Purpose or circumstance

Electro-immobiliser Restraining cattle, but only if used by a veterinary practitioner for purposes other than as an alternative to analgesia or anaesthesia

Electric stock prod Driving, herding, mustering or controlling weaned cattle or sheep

Controlling horses being used in a rodeo, but only for the purpose of getting a horse that has stalled in the chute to exit the chute and not if used on the horse once it has started to exit the chute

Loading or unloading weaned pigs onto or from a vehicle for transportation purposes

Electric fence Confining, controlling or protecting animals (except dogs and cats)

Electro-ejaculator Collecting semen from conscious cattle or sheep

Collecting semen from animals that have been tranquillised and administered with an analgesic or animals that have been anaesthetised

Electric stock grid Confining stock animals (except poultry)

Electric fightback lure Training coursing dogs

Electro-fishing device Catching fish species under licence, permit or authority under the Fisheries Management Act 1994 or in accordance with the Animal Research Act 1985

The device sold under the name Pingg String (including any similar device delivering an electric shock of no greater intensity or duration than a Pingg String) Confining dogs or cats, but only if used inside a fence through which dogs or cats cannot pass and that is not less than 1.5 metres high

Canine invisible boundary Confining dogs, but only if used inside a fence through which dogs cannot pass and that is not less than 1.5 metres high

Electronic bird deterrent device Deterring birds from roosting on building ledges and other external building surfaces

Any other device producing an electrical discharge that is used in such a way that the animal in relation to which it is being used cannot move away from the device

Incidentally the Austlii web site has links to all state's laws. Just search on 'dogs' 'animals' 'cruelty' etc.

[Clyde]

Thanks for the advice. Might try and get some pricing for fencing material for them. I don't know about an e-collar, with the training involved, that might be the downfall, I would be willing to help, but don't think I would have the available tme to do it properly. That and the lack of a physical barrier might make it hard. Thanks for the advice on mesh, I'll look into it. Good point about keeping others out, that hadn't occured to me.

Just for the record, I am aware of a dog owners responsibilities and the many valid reasons why dogs should stay in their yard unless accompanied by their owner. But he's not my dog, and I would never drag my soapbox next door to tell them about their responsibilities. Me enjoying seeing George every now and then is not the same as me agreeing with how he is kept. When I said personally I don't have a problem with it, I meant I don't have a problem with the occasional crap on my lawn. As for as their responsibilities as a dog owner go, it's not my place to worry about it. He's a happy well fed dog, he's not abused, so I live and let live. Personally I wish my neighbours grown children would step up to the plate on this one, but it doesn't seem to be happening. I like George, I like my neighbours, so I'm willing to try to help. That's all.

Thanks again for the advice, it's much appreciated.

Cheers,

Jodie

Good for you for helping Jodie!

[bedazzledx2]

This was my first fenced yard for my dog when I only had one. He was a second hand dog and a known Houdini but I didn't have much money so got some star pickets second hand and some dog fencing from Bunnings and a second hand gate out of the paper. I then used sleepers and rocks around the perimeter so he couldn't dig out and kept an eye on him while I had him in there while I was home. When I went out I asked my neighbor to check on him and it worked really well. Later on I replaced the fencing with pool fencing again second hand out of the paper which did the same job but looked a bit better. Often I see second hand fencing in the paper very cheap and I would recommend checking that out.

I worry about the e fencing as I have known many dogs to go through the shock when they are in a high state of arousal (chasing a cat of dog etc) and then not be able to get back in or worse have other dogs come into the yard and cause problems. Its also very expensive.

containment may keep his in but wont stop others out. His dog risks being attacked if chained up or no fences. He is better off building a dog run or fencing at least some of the yard. Some star pickets and 180cm dog netting will keep the dog in if he's not a hugelly destructive or pushy dog.

I have an elderly neighbour whose dog, George, until recently had the run off the neighbourhood. Right or wrong, even though he lives in town he has never had to worry about fences. As far as I was concerned personally, he never caused any trouble, apart from the occasional poo on my front lawn I was always happy to see George pop round to say hello and so was our staffy.

An owner has a responsibility to the dog. What would happen if George got hit by a car? Or caused a driver to swerve and crash? Was injured, fought with another dog or attacked another? If you want George to say hello clip a leash to his collar and bring him over for play dates.

[Erny]

IMO a proper fence is better, with (if the dog needs a bit more) an electric fence (such as used to keep stock in). The electric fence is a visible reminder and the dog doesn't need to wear a collar for it. There's no training - it's straight out operant conditioning.

But if the dog is not a fence jumper, then the electric fencing might not be needed.

I have a feeling that in NSW, electric fencing might be illegal to use with dogs - lordy knows why as IMO and IME it is one of the best and humane kinds of boundary-breaking deterrents around.