Is Banning The Selling Of Puppies From Pet Shops The Solution?

[fiery_di]

Have been thinking about this on the way home on the train.

Presently I have been advocating the BANNING of the selling of puppies from pet shops etc. BANNING puppy farming etc. Make it illegal persay.

What is to say though, that it wouldnt then go underground/black market (much like dog fighting) where we know even less about the farming of puppies as it is kept even more 'hush hush'?? Then wouldnt it be a bigger problem? Whereas if it wasnt banned then at least it could be better monitored and policed?

I dont claim to have the answers, but it has made me think whether BANNING is the ultimate solution.

Thoughts?

Edited July 6, 2010 by fiery_di

[whippets]

I also believe that more purebred dogs will be stolen out of peoples backyards should pet shop bans and puppy farms be banned. Why? because the market demand would still be there.

And no I am not condoning these practices, I am totally against it.

As with any market situation, there is a "need" for joe public to buy cute fluffy dogs through puppy farms via pet shops. Even with forums like these there are still masses of people who are totally ignorant about where these pups come from. Then you have vets on morning t.v shows and people like Don (I know stuff all about dogs but alot about horse crap for your garden) Burke advocating xbreds and hybrid vigor.

So until the day current legislation gets "policed" properly and the government gets involved with media campaigns against puppy farms (which they won't bother with because it's not a big vote getter) then people will continue to complain about pound dogs and euthanasia, puppy farms will continue to thrive and ethical registered breeders, who do the right thing, will continue to be the pin cushion/easy target due to us having less rights under law than puppy farm businesses.

[lovemesideways]

Rather than blanket banning it, I think that it would be really fantastic if instead they could find a way to source rescue dogs through pet stores in a way that everyone would accept.

I don't think its the solution, its not going to stop trading post, or internet sales, but changing where those puppies come from instead could be Huge.

[grace]

I am against pet shops selling puppies and kittens. I dont think banning them is the solution but I would like to see it law that all puppies and kittens be desexed before they can sell them.

[corvus]

I have always thought of it as a hydra. The pet shop front is just one aspect. I think regulating is a better solution than banning, but that's me. I seem to always be fighting on the dark side. It's hard going.

[Skitch]

I think there needs to be some tighter legislation on selling puppies right accross the board.. not just petshops but BYB setups as well. Ideally, I wish BYB was illegal.. I think all puppies should be microchipped, vaccinated, wormed and kept until 8 weeks regardless of where they come from. Asking that all dogs be desexed would be pointless because it would never happen.. but I think if it was mandatory that all dogs atleast had microchipping, vaccinating, etc it would stop alot of back yard breeders because they wouldn't be able to afford to have these things done in the first place.

Then again.. maybe doing that would just create a black market for 'illegal' puppies.. *sigh*. it's a bit of an unwinnable war I think..

edited to fix my awful grammar. LOL

Edited July 6, 2010 by Skitch

[fiery_di]

It certainly feels like it doesnt it Skitch!! It just seems to be a never ending cycle. I always thought we were getting somewhere in educating the consumer. Then along comes the DD breeds and then WHAMMO, another branch of the sinister cycle has started. Another excited consumer with a cute little puppy on their hands, another excited pet shop owner seeing $$ coming through the store with this new development of DD's that are easily accessible via the puppy farms, another excited puppy farmer seeing $$$ to churn out the 'demand' for these DDs.

Another point I hadnt thought about Whippet - yep alot of stolen purebred dogs to add to the equation if banning was put into place.

[fiery_di]

So until the day current legislation gets "policed" properly and the government gets involved with media campaigns against puppy farms (which they won't bother with because it's not a big vote getter) then people will continue to complain about pound dogs and euthanasia, puppy farms will continue to thrive and ethical registered breeders, who do the right thing, will continue to be the pin cushion/easy target due to us having less rights under law than puppy farm businesses.

So very true. It HAS to start with the governing bodies. It seems that they are the ones that need to take action and set the ball rolling.

[fiery_di]

Ok, so this is probably a bit random & probably very hard to source but I wonder if anyone researched the affect on the quantities of dogs in pounds with the release & popularity of 'Pound Puppies' stuffed toys many moons ago. Would be interesting to see some data. Leveraging off something like that, which, if proved that it was effective then what not to say that using a marketing ploy such as that to get the 'message' across nowadays to educate people about the seriousness of dog ownership & when their dog actually came from could actually work?

Dont know if that makes sense. My mind is going around in circles. This puppy farming & DD popularity is doing my head in!!

[Skitch]

An interesting point Fiery.. could be a useful marketing tool! Somehow I dont think that kind of information would be readily available though.

I think it needs to be something that starts up high with governing bodies too.. I still cant believe that puppy farming is legal.. there are so many ways in which it could be outlawed but it's as though no one in government cares enough to pursue them.

[fiery_di]

An interesting point Fiery.. could be a useful marketing tool! Somehow I dont think that kind of information would be readily available though.

I think it needs to be something that starts up high with governing bodies too.. I still cant believe that puppy farming is legal.. there are so many ways in which it could be outlawed but it's as though no one in government cares enough to pursue them.

But the govt/councils get a kick back from all the registrations of puppy farms' dogs dont they? Another body that are probably just looking at the $$$ rather than the appalling mess it is making!!

[Shmurps]

Some of the stories that I have heard first hand about live stock in pet shops makes me

Try going into a pet shop and say I'll have that pup thanks.

I work in a pet store (we don't sell pups and kittens) and I volunteer at a shelter.

May not be the solution, but it should be banned.

[Esky the husky]

IMO banning the sale of live animals is the first step.

People need to be educated about choosing the right fit for their family.

It's not as though you pick up the first guy off the street and say to him ' right your my husband, come home with me'

It takes time to make these decisions, and pet stores encourage impulse purchases.

[Brennan's Mum]

I hate seeing pups in pet stores, it really tears at me when you see the pets in those little enclosures, and all the people oohing and aahing. Not to mention all the people who fake interest just to hold a cute puppy, or the fact I have seen 2 8week old Siberian Husky pups in one of the tiny enclosures in my local Pets Prison..)(Paradise).

I like the idea of rescue and shelter's being connected with pet stores. I actually went to a pet store in Canada where they had a mini shelter in the store. You went into another room and they had approximately 16 cages, and each day the local shelters would bring in a selection of cats and dogs.

They also had photo's and animal profiles at in with the store, and computers which were available to enable customers to have a look at some dogs and cats needing homes online.

[harley]

IMO banning the sale of live animals is the first step.

People need to be educated about choosing the right fit for their family.

It's not as though you pick up the first guy off the street and say to him ' right your my husband, come home with me'It takes time to make these decisions, and pet stores encourage impulse purchases.

Not trying to detract from the seriousness of this topic, but this bit did make me laugh. A very good cross example!

[Souff]

Yo, you are on the right track FD.

Ban anything and you immediately create a black market. Dead set certainty.

Human beings are totally ingenious and some find a ban a challenge, and if they get caught doing whatever is banned, well the legal fraternity are ready and waiting for them, rubbing their hands together. Laws are made for lawyers to get rich and are often made by lawyers. That is no accident.

Bans keep the dibberdobbers in a lather but the black markets and the lawyers thrive, dibberdobbers notwithstanding.

Souff is still totally against the deliberate breeding of crossbred dogs, but would a law for that totally stop it? Of course not.

It would mean that the practice would be regulated though and that, in my very own humble opinion, would hopefully raise the bar and we might see better bred dogs and less plundering of gene pools. Might. Little pigs might sprout wings and fly too. When Jed sees that Souff is banging this drum again, that is probably what we will hear.

Education wins over bans everytime, and if we can educate people to understand that there is a very limited supply of purebred dogs left in some of the gene pools, and that crossbreeding dogs has the capacity to annihilate whole breeds of dogs in a very short space of time, then we will be making some progress.

Now what was I saying about little pigs .....

Souff

[K9Nev]

Yo, you are on the right track FD.

Ban anything and you immediately create a black market. Dead set certainty.

Human beings are totally ingenious and some find a ban a challenge, and if they get caught doing whatever is banned, well the legal fraternity are ready and waiting for them, rubbing their hands together. Laws are made for lawyers to get rich and are often made by lawyers. That is no accident.

Bans keep the dibberdobbers in a lather but the black markets and the lawyers thrive, dibberdobbers notwithstanding.

Souff is still totally against the deliberate breeding of crossbred dogs, but would a law for that totally stop it? Of course not.

It would mean that the practice would be regulated though and that, in my very own humble opinion, would hopefully raise the bar and we might see better bred dogs and less plundering of gene pools. Might. Little pigs might sprout wings and fly too. When Jed sees that Souff is banging this drum again, that is probably what we will hear.

Education wins over bans everytime, and if we can educate people to understand that there is a very limited supply of purebred dogs left in some of the gene pools, and that crossbreeding dogs has the capacity to annihilate whole breeds of dogs in a very short space of time, then we will be making some progress.

Now what was I saying about little pigs .....

Souff

Can't say that I see black market mongrel dogs as a lucrative sales potential in general terms. Banning of pet shop puppies would certainly reduce impulse buying as the availability on hand is no longer there. Anyone wanting a puppy other than from a registered breeder is more difficult to scource and takes effort that the impulse buyer I don't believe will take that initiative. Personally I think it should be illegal to breed and sell puppies period unless you hold a breeders licence/registration.

Cheers

Nev

Edited July 6, 2010 by K9Nev

[dandybrush]

regarding the puppy mills I think they need to be policed better and i also think that the minimun standard of care has to be higher eg. now (from what i have been told) the dogs just need room to stand up turn around and sit down, what if the rule changed to they have to have access to grass for a minimum of 6 hours per day...that would definately make the puppy mills a nicer place..if that and other rules were enforced.

[Gayle.]

There are no pet shops here that sell puppies, but the oodle-doodle puppy farmers do a roaring trade.....they sell direct to the public. I know of a least 4 puppy farms here, they supply the pet shops in the city, but they'll also sell to anyone who contacts them direct.

[WoofnHoof]

What's the difference between a pet shop puppy sale and a sale of a pup picked up from the breeders house? I've known many people who've just rang up about a pup in an ad and gone to pick it up, no home checks no interrogations it's the same thing in a lot of ways the only real difference I can see is that instead of walking past a shop they have picked up the paper and called the number?

I would like to see compulsory education courses in place even just make them watch a 2hr video regarding the breed in question before a purchase can be finalized, plus a desexing voucher which can be redeemed at the owners chosen vet at a time that suits. These would be easy first steps to introduce and enforce.