J... Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 I use far more rear crosses these days and find that Darcy knocks far less bars when I'm not rushing to make FX position. I still find it amazing what she's capable of reading from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 I agree Jess - it's amazing what they can pick up in their peripheral vision! Zig is starting to drive ahead much more now - I taught him with food and put it on cue - we are getting the hang of rear crosses now. I know he can put on a burst of speed when I ask so the challenge is on to get us both moving a bit faster on the whole course. But of course that means my decel cues now need some work ;) My Dalmatian who doesn't retrieve and who hates the water is now obsessed with retrieving dummies from the water with his own special swimming style But it's improving his fitness which is great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Bump for this thread! Our agility holiday is officially over! The weaving poles and jumps arrived from Clean Run so I took the dogs to the oval today. Worked with Ziggy on weave entries, rear crosses into weaves and independent weaves with me veering off to a jump. Picked up 2x2 training with Em now that she is older and she had 6 poles sorted by the end - slightly offset and she may well forget but she was getting some nice rhythm. Put her over a couple of jumps as well just to see what she remembered. The hardest thing with her is she does everything as fast as possible so you have to be really quick on your feet! A long walk and swim was in order after all that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Hi guys, I didn't want to start a new thread just for this so I am hoping this doesn't get lost! :) I'm hoping to get some ideas on the different ways you all teach contacts? I want to start teaching Pippa (mini schnauzer) 2o2o contacts on a plank on the ground, but really don't know where to start. While I can't think of a time Millie has ever missed a contact, they certainly are not consistent in the way in which she executes them and I had no real training plan with them (obviously). I don't want to start Pippa on contacts until I have a plan, I don't want to just wing it like I have with my own dogs. From memory I think I lured them mostly, and clicked when they were in position. I'm aware of the nose target at the end of a plank, but am looking for ways others have trained it so I can decide which method I'd like to try. If you have videos to back up what you're explaining, even better! I really hope some of you can offer me some advice, thanks in advance!! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Disclaimer - no expert here - Kirra has point and pray - Rory has sort of 2o2o - but hasn't used them in anger yet :laugh: - in fact the few times he's had the chance to use the contact equipment, his first move was to run up to the down end, and throw himself backwards into position - nice try, Rory - boy brains :laugh: . But seriously - you've done some shaping with Pippa, haven't you - so I'd probably start with a perch box of some sort, and shape back feet on front feet off - then don't let her self-release - i.e - mark and reward in position, then release. You can gradually build up duration - then transfer the behaviour to a small plank - slightly raised off the ground. I gifure by shaping on a perch box, you haven't poisoned anything. There is that new Rachel Sanders 2o2o dvd available on CR ;) - have ordered it - but it hasn't arrived yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Thanks for the reply, Tassie :) I did think about shaping the back feet, but I have been shaping the front feet onto a box so I could start some pivot/back end awareness work for obedience for her. So I'm worried about confusing the poor girl by drastically changing the criteria for something that looks like the same exercise, and then losing the behaviour for both! She's up to both front paws on a phone book and duration is up to only a few seconds to date. I want that DVD!!! But I am terribly broke so trying to stop myself from buying more dog things Let me know how you find it!! If it's any good I might have to beg, borrow and steal so I can afford to buy it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 No expert here either - I just do what works. I taught nose touch to hand, then to a clear plastic lid, then put it on the ground, added a cue and then tossed it into the travel plank mix. That works well for Ziggy. In terms of rear end awareness and planks for 2o/2o, I waited until Em was really flying along on the phone book stuff before I started on the travel plank. I lured the 2nd behaviour because she was trying so hard and running through hundreds of behaviours with no success - as soon as I lured it she got it in no time. Now she knows immediately which one we are doing, even with different objects for both (e.g. phone book, balance disc, steps, plank). She actually offers a drop at the end of her see-saw contact which works incredibly well for her body type, particularly with the new small obstacle so I'm very tempted to leave it as is. Will see what happens when we start on A-frame and dog walk in the next module. We went back to agility this week. Em was so excited to see all the equipment on Sunday and was just throwing herself through tunnels, tyres, weave poles, over jumps, see-saw etc. She's getting some really good speed up and is very sensitive to my body language. She nearly fainted when she accompanied Zig and I to agility last night :laugh: but it wasn't her class so we just did some obedience to the side. Ziggy was so enthusiastic - a few things we've worked on over the last month have really paid off (lots of fitness work, building motivation and independent weaving poles!!!) but, as the Derretts have been in town, there were a few new things to concentrate on - OMG he's changed the front cross We were all like complete newbies trying to put that together but our dogs saved us from complete embarrassment so clearly it's much harder for us than it is for them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 What do you mean!!! How can he change a front cross!!?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 What do you mean!!! How can he change a front cross!!?? I know!!!! By the time I get my head around this no doubt he'll change it again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I don't understand, how could it possubly change? :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I don't understand, how could it possubly change? :laugh: From what I gather with my clunky attempt last night, you position yourself right near the upright and the turn is not as important but tends to be later, on your way to the next obstacle. Positional cue is the key along with accel and decel. Much easier if someone shows you in a box set up and it does take some getting used to. Probably a real advantage for faster dogs - I will work on it regardless as Zig is getting faster and I expect Em will be a zippy little thing. It's also critical that you don't have to baby a 180 in order to practice this. Zig REALLY surprised me and didn't need any remedial 180 work. Edited February 7, 2012 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiechick Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I don't understand, how could it possubly change? :laugh: The front cross hasn't changed - still has the same 3 feet pattern, as close as possible to next obstacle, same 3 cues to cue it, etc. What has 'changed' (and I use that term loosely) is the even more increased emphasis on positional cue (there has always been emphasis on PC in Derrett system, go back through the old DVD's - especially number 3 and it's still there ) but now PC practically trumps everything else, and he had some very cool exercises to teach it. Decel'ing into FC (one of the 3 cues of FC) has also been part of the system for a long time but something that most of us suck at (from the mouth of the burning rubber run like hell FC Queen, LOL) and this time there was also a lot of emphasis on getting us to actually show our dogs the difference between accel and decel when we run, rather than running the whole course at the same speed. The fact that most of us don't use decel correctly when reaching PC is something that I believe has caused a lot of non -Derrett handlers to have the belief that dogs don't get enough warning that a turn is coming up in the Derrett system, which is entirely the fault of how most of us run the course, not of the system itself. Greg doesn't like the term pre-cue, but decel is a bloody big pre-cue when applied correctly. Awesome seminar btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Ahh thanks for the info Kelpiechick & TSD. I find the whole decel/accel stuff so fascinating and it's amazing how it works on dogs so naturally (from what I've seen in classes I've been in anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The seminar was great. I was there for Days 1, 4 and 5. I wish I had taken time off for the other two! For those that weren't there and didn't get the sales pitch, they are going to release an 8 week foundation web-based course in March, with notes, videos and the opportunity to ask them questions directly. They didn't give out pricing, but there will be a 25% discount if you join as part of a group of 10 or more, so it is definitely worth banding together (you still get your own login etc). I can't wait for it to come out as there are so many behaviours I haven't actually taught my boy , but at least he has good tug. TSD - were you at the workshops? I didn't see a dally, it was BC city! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Seem to be a lot of trainers going to web based courses - guess they are harder to burn copies of ;) :laugh: I went to a Derret seminar years ago when my first dog was a puppy - learnt a lot but it would be so much more useful now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 ... a lot of non -Derrett handlers to have the belief that dogs don't get enough warning that a turn is coming up in the Derrett system, which is entirely the fault of how most of us run the course, not of the system itself. Greg doesn't like the term pre-cue, but decel is a bloody big pre-cue when applied correctly. I think this is so true. I was just saying something very similar to someone the other day. I see a lot of late cues & wide turns, but lately assume its the execution rather than the system. I don't use the GD system, I precue , but do have a question... The precue allows me to get ahead if i need to when executing a FC which means I can accelerate through it while still changing sides. Would this only be handled a a rear in the GD system? I can probably find video somewhere to illustrate if this doesn't make sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Thanks for the discussion and explanation on the PQ for FC - I loved the the burning rubber run like hell FC Queen, - now why does that sound familiar . But yes accel/decel is key - hence I have to remind myself to keep looking like I'm still running when I'm 3 jumps behind Kirra on a final sequence - she's heard Greg say "I stop,you stop" too many times :laugh: .RS - I did both front and back feet on box at pretty much the same time - admittedly with luring - but even boy brains got it quite quickly - girls will have no trouble :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I'm aware of the nose target at the end of a plank, but am looking for ways others have trained it so I can decide which method I'd like to try. If you have videos to back up what you're explaining, even better! I really hope some of you can offer me some advice, thanks in advance!! :) I'm trying to teaching Fly a rear feet on method, as opposed to a 2o2o. I basically want her body horizontal, rather that at an angle in her contact position. I'll let you know in about 2 years if it works! Anyway, here is video so far... Edited February 7, 2012 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 That's the problem isn't it, you don't really know until your dog has been trialling for a while how effective the method is! :laugh: I remember hearing someone say that a dogs contacts are at their best level when they start trialing, then they go downhill, certainly the case for my first dog, time will tell for the second! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 She is looking so big now Vickie! Will be interesting to see how that works. I have taught 2o2o with a paw target as opposed to a nose target. Took me a while and some experimenting to get the target position the way I wanted (pounce with both front feet hitting at the same time) and this is going well on a travel plank but doesn't translate as well to full size equipment, more work to be done there! He doesn't drive into position as well as I would like, not too bad on A-Frame, can be slow on Dogwalk. On the travel plank I am working on getting him to do the pounce when I am behind him and lateral to him and to look straight ahead instead of at me (has been difficult to achieve, but pretty good now) and getting some better drive into position from the end of the plank as well. One of these days I will coerce OH to video it (along with the tugging :laugh: ) and put it up for critique to see if anyone has pointers. Hoping to do SG's stopped contact course to see if that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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