Agility Training Talk Thread

[Kavik]

From what I've researched it looks very difficult to get accurate running contacts. Not just for the dog to be accurate, but you also have to be very good at watching and when they are going that fast it is hard to see Also from what I have seen with friends the difference in ANKC and ADAA sized equipment makes it difficult. Even the 'professionals' miss their running contacts sometimes in competition!

It is Sylvia Trkman

http://www.silvia.trkman.net/

[Vickie]

A couple of other things about running contacts.

There is a study now to say that a running AF causes more stress on joints than a 2o2o.

Nobody seems to have 100% accuracy yet

They can waste time if there is a tight turn at the end (although people are now teaching a run straight ahead & a run & turn)

A running contact is not faster than a 2o2o released early.

[kelpiechick]

There is a study now to say that a running AF causes more stress on joints than a 2o2o.

Would be very interested in reading this, could you please point me in the direction of where I can find it.

Is it the actual running A Frame performance or the amount of repetitions needed to train and maintain it?

[Agility Dogs]

True running contacts take A LOT of very specific training & repetition & I believe you need your own equip (or access whenever you want) to do it successfully.

LOL try telling a lot of people that. I'm constantly arguing with people (especially small dog people) that they don't have a running contact, they have a dog that runs its contacts and just doesn't happen to jump. It's not until they start to have problems they agree.

I know my competition contacts suck and are a work in progress, the dogs rarely miss in the ring, but they don't stop. I DO NOT have a running contact. LOL.

[Vickie]

There is a study now to say that a running AF causes more stress on joints than a 2o2o.

Would be very interested in reading this, could you please point me in the direction of where I can find it.

Is it the actual running A Frame performance or the amount of repetitions needed to train and maintain it?

I think it was in Clean run. Will find it & get back to you.

They have proven that the shoulders take more stress on the ascent than the descent & yes, it is related to repitition required to teach it...and the fact that much of the 2o2o can be taught off the obstacle.

[Vickie]

I'm constantly arguing with people (especially small dog people) that they don't have a running contact, they have a dog that runs its contacts and just doesn't happen to jump.

We regularly refer to that as "lack of" contact

[pie]

I have a 300 dog and a 400 dog and prefer 2o2o because the criteria is clearer to them, I was a bit slack with the 2o2o in the beginning with the 300 dog because a lot of people told me that because he is little I didn't need to do it, he could have a 'running' contact, well no one really seems to know how to teach a running contact properly so I changed to 2o2o Although he is little he is quite jumpy and can easily leap over contacts if he is in a mood. :nahnah:

I also like 2o2o because the dog learns to shift their weight to their back end on the A frame.

[pie]

I'm constantly arguing with people (especially small dog people) that they don't have a running contact, they have a dog that runs its contacts and just doesn't happen to jump.

We regularly refer to that as "lack of" contact

Ah, yes I think that's what people expected my 300 dog to have

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I watched a very energetic dog last night, take a flying leap over the top of the a frame and bounce off the yellow at the bottom - perfect contact. Sort of. Kind of unreliable. Not that my hound is reliable about contacts either.

What is 2o2o. I noticed that in Susan Garrett's dvds, her dogs park their back legs on the bottom of the whatever, and don't move until she releases them. It's slow but very difficult for a judge to miss the contact. I bet that happens ie dog makes contact but it's too quick for that judge.

My hound mostly follows me around the track, I need to teach her a go out, or ahead. Otherwise, glad I play hockey too. But we only get around the course as fast as I do.

[Kavik]

2o2o is 2on2off - where the dog has two feet on the ground (front) and two feet on the equipment (back)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AswoQlwp8jk

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Hi Kavik

So for the purposes of an agility run...

If your dog takes a flying leap over the yellow, landing front feet on the grass first, and then stopping and landing back feet on the yellow/contact. Does that count ok or fail?

Taking that a little bit further, if all four feet skip the yellow, can you back the dog up for contact. Although if I knew how to teach that, I think I'd be fine with teaching contact.

[ness]

MRB 2o2o is what Kenz did and what you were apparently talking about when we did our snooker run at training that night .

[Kavik]

Hi Kavik

So for the purposes of an agility run...

If your dog takes a flying leap over the yellow, landing front feet on the grass first, and then stopping and landing back feet on the yellow/contact. Does that count ok or fail?

Taking that a little bit further, if all four feet skip the yellow, can you back the dog up for contact. Although if I knew how to teach that, I think I'd be fine with teaching contact.

The second one is definitely a fault. Not sure about the first one.

[Agility Dogs]

Hi Kavik

So for the purposes of an agility run...

If your dog takes a flying leap over the yellow, landing front feet on the grass first, and then stopping and landing back feet on the yellow/contact. Does that count ok or fail?

Taking that a little bit further, if all four feet skip the yellow, can you back the dog up for contact. Although if I knew how to teach that, I think I'd be fine with teaching contact.

The second one is definitely a fault. Not sure about the first one.

I think you'd get away with the first one - very hard to tell the timing of which feet given they would be so close together - if they weren't I'd be seriously concerned for the saftety of the dog. Even this way - still concerned.

Being pedantic - the second one is elimination, not a fault. The dog has incorrectly completed an obstacle with a fault you cannot go back onto the obstacle. In ADAA this would be classed as training in the ring and you would be excused.

[Kavik]

Just read the ANKC rules on contacts and to me it reads as missing a contact is a fault, not disqualification.

[Vickie]

Missing a contact is a fault but re-entering a completed (even with a fault) obstacle is DQ. So if a dog missed contact & backed up, it should be a DQ.

If done at extreme speed, some of these things are hard to judge & most judges would give the benefit of the doubt.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Vickie

[Agility Dogs]

Missing a contact is a fault but re-entering a completed (even with a fault) obstacle is DQ. So if a dog missed contact & backed up, it should be a DQ.

If done at extreme speed, some of these things are hard to judge & most judges would give the benefit of the doubt.

What Vicki said.

Further to that in ADAA if you ASK for the dog to go back on the contact (ETA - tell the dog, not ask the judge) then the judge can deem it training in the ring and should Disqualify you from the ring (as opposed to eliminate you from the event and let you finish the run.)

Edited July 30, 2010 by Agility Dogs

[Kavik]

Cool, that makes sense.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Ness

Nah, it's the big bouncy brown dog in our beginners class that does the flying leap thing. Her owner's main problem at the moment is getting the dog to do the course the owner says, not one the dog makes up for herself from sheer enthusiasm.

I think we decided that the first one would be a pass. The back feet hadn't contacted grass first I suppose. It was just one of those very big bounding strides and probably not the safest thing but try explaining that to the dog.

Mine likes to stop at the top of the A frame and bark at me. Who's the king of the castle? And who's the naughty rascal? She loves being up high.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Mrs Rusty Bucket

[caffy]

Cosmolo I was considering teaching running contacts, but you have to have your own, full size equipment. Silvia Turkjman (I think, i can't google at work ) a famous Slovenian with world champ dogs teaches them and explains her method on her website.

Perth is hosting Daisy Peel in May next year.

She has a successful running contact and will be covering running contacts at her seminar.

http://www.daisypeel.com/?page_id=172