Agility Training Talk Thread

[ness]

Hmmm what about teaching a nose touch and working on some 2o2o in the house huski ;) .

[huski]

LOL good idea Ness! Anything to pass the time, we got sent home from work just before the CBD was evacuated so we've been couped up in the house since then.

[ness]

;) - yes can't have Daisy getting to comfy I saw the photo you posted . If you have anything you can use as a ramp, even a short plank floating round and prop it up on a brick or something inside you then have yourself a makeshift contact trainer . I have even been known to prop my plank up on the lounge .

[RubyStar]

Took Millie's weaves "on the road" tonight and she still remembers how to weave 6 when not in the backyard I'm gonna be brave and set up the two sets of 6 on Thursday night with the gap between and see if I can get her doing both ;) Whoops I haven't filmed the 6 yet since our woeful 4 poles video ;) We still have a bit of work to do with me running down the left hand side of the weaves with her though, she just doesn't like it for some reason and expects me to be on the right! (hmm might be an obedience thing? )

[Rusky]

put this all over DOL, hope everyone sees it

WA

SRAODC is hosting an agilty and jumping fundraiser on Friday evening the 21st January. It is a sanctioned event by governing council with all monies going to victims and their animals.I hope all the sporting clubs will come on board, so far ACWA are in ... thanks guys !!

It will be a show and go and planning is in the early stages, all help appreciated and hope to see the doggy WA fraternity turn out to support the event.

I think we will start around 7 pm but will set up equipment during the day.

you can contact me on

[email protected]

[RubyStar]

Woohoo! The brown one weaved 12 consecutive poles tonight

We've been training using the 2x2 method and last Saturday I was up to doing the 6 + 6 with a gap in between. We did a few of those, then tonight I was going to do some more but couldn't be bothered setting all my bases up. So I went and had a play with the stick in the ground weaves that were already set up, that were at a slight angle. Sent Millie through thinking if she can't do it no harm done, will just go back to the 6+6 (waiting for the comments on that one ) Well about the third attempt, she did all 12 We're almost there! Didn't think we'd get there when just before Christmas it felt like we were forever stuck at 4 poles

Edited January 18, 2011 by RubyStar

[dandybrush]

OK im doing the 2x2 training still :dohh: and how do i get raz to know which way to go through the poles? when i try shaping if he is on the wrong side he enters from the wrong side, i have to move him to the correct end i cant tell if its me being a bad trainer of if raz is just not getting it

Like in the 2x2 vid the lady is standing at the last pole and the dog is running to the start and through and bak to her, raz doesnt run round to the start

Edited January 18, 2011 by dandybrush

[Agility Dogs]

OK im doing the 2x2 training still :dohh: and how do i get raz to know which way to go through the poles? when i try shaping if he is on the wrong side he enters from the wrong side, i have to move him to the correct end i cant tell if its me being a bad trainer of if raz is just not getting it

Like in the 2x2 vid the lady is standing at the last pole and the dog is running to the start and through and bak to her, raz doesnt run round to the start

Sounds to me like you might have progressed a little too quickly - like before he is really driving through the poles. Maybe go back to the start and get him driving between the 2 poles and then slowly rotate them.

Also - did you have him going between the two poles from a full 270 degrees before moving to the next stage?

[dandybrush]

ah ok, should i rotate the 1 fully before i add the second one? i might go bak to one, but he still will enter it from either way its soo confusing, how do i get him to know he has to walk around and enter from the certain side?

[RubyStar]

ah ok, should i rotate the 1 fully before i add the second one? i might go bak to one, but he still will enter it from either way its soo confusing, how do i get him to know he has to walk around and enter from the certain side?

He should start to get it if you go back to one set of 2 poles, and start with them fully open, like this | | and ask him to drive through the open poles from all angles on the "arc".

Then slowly rotate the 2 poles ever so slightly (moving the right one backwards) asking him to enter from all angles again. As the poles move, he should understand where that entry point is and recognise it's moving. Keep doing this until they are open just a bit and he is driving through from all angles, then add the 2nd set. When he is driving through both, then slowly rotate both until they are closed.

[kelpiechick]

You need to set your reward line at the beginning of each session - you decide which direction you want your dog to move through the poles from, begin each session with a straight on 'easy' entry to set the reward line for the dog, then make sure that you keep the direction consistent for that entire session.

Use good training mechanics to make sure your dog doesn't run back and forward through the poles in different directions. Even if you are standing still while the dog goes through the poles, you should be moving after that as you throw the reward, move forward and meet your dog and then tug/play together as you move back to your starting position so dog doesn't get a chance to 'backweave'.

When you begin rotating first 2 poles, move to 2 and 8 o'clock, then work through all the entries on the arc as AD said before you rotate them again to 1 and 7 o'clock - then go back and work all the entries again before adding the 2nd set of poles.

To get the type of entries you mentioned where you send your dog down to the entry from part way down the poles or at the opposite end, you need to increase the difficulty of the entries very slowly. It helps if you record keep- I had a diagram where I marked the position all the entries I worked for each session so I could target those where the succes rate was not as great and make sure I went slowly on those, but continued to work them. Record keeping is also good for keeping a note of your own body position, whether you stood still or ran with the dog - try to mix it up.

Hope this helps. I got really good results with my young BC using this method but it is hard when you are doing it alone and have to rely on e-books and DVD - however excellent they might be. I had a couple of points where I bashed my head against the wall but luckily another instructor at the club where I teach and train was also doing it, so I had someone to compare notes with, so to speak. That really helps.

There is also a lot of footage out there on you-tube of people applying the method incorrectly which doesn't help so be careful what you watch.

[Cosmolo]

Great tips guys- i am trying to decide which one of my dogs to start this with.

Can someone tell me what the advantages are using this method with a dog that already weaves 'well'. Cosmo who i posted the vid of a few pages ago is good but not great and i can see in that video a slight hesitation or slowing down as she enters the weavers- would 2x2 fix this issue?

While i am not competing myself, i like to train as though i am and as i haven't used 2x2 before i am wondering whether it is easier to learn on a more experienced, steady dog (like Cosmo) before trying with my younger, inexperienced dogs. What do you think?

[Agility Dogs]

Great tips guys- i am trying to decide which one of my dogs to start this with.

Can someone tell me what the advantages are using this method with a dog that already weaves 'well'. Cosmo who i posted the vid of a few pages ago is good but not great and i can see in that video a slight hesitation or slowing down as she enters the weavers- would 2x2 fix this issue?

While i am not competing myself, i like to train as though i am and as i haven't used 2x2 before i am wondering whether it is easier to learn on a more experienced, steady dog (like Cosmo) before trying with my younger, inexperienced dogs. What do you think?

I've retaught my boy (CK that I posted the video of) using the 2 x 2 method and my thoughts are that it gives you a much keener weaving dog who has a better understanding of the 'process'. (or it is easier to achieve that.)

Before you use the method and expect best results though the dog really needs to have a strong toy/play drive. you can do it with food, but the results IMO are not as good. (SG is of the same opinion so that may colour my thinking.....) The dog also needs to have a good understanding of how to learn - no point in trying to teach it if you have not done a good deal of shaping. (That's the bad stuff.)

My girl weaves very well, but her understaning of entries is not as strong as my boy - simply because the 2x2 method proofs them from the word go where as other methods don't focus quite so much on that.

This method also lets you evaluate performance and only reward/progress when you are happy with progress where as IMO other methods make it more difficult to give your dog a 'win'.

The other big win is that when done properly 2 x 2's give you a dog that will weave independently whereas other methods (at least in the early stages) rely on the handler being in relatively close proximity to the poles.

They are the key benefits in my mind. I'll be using the 2 x 2's to teach my puppy to weave in another few months so it will be interesting to train with a perfectly clean slate.

Disclaimer - I haven't used the 'track' type trainers or the poles that are angled out so I can't comment on their effectiveness.

[Agility Dogs]

You need to set your reward line at the beginning of each session - you decide which direction you want your dog to move through the poles from, begin each session with a straight on 'easy' entry to set the reward line for the dog, then make sure that you keep the direction consistent for that entire session.

Use good training mechanics to make sure your dog doesn't run back and forward through the poles in different directions. Even if you are standing still while the dog goes through the poles, you should be moving after that as you throw the reward, move forward and meet your dog and then tug/play together as you move back to your starting position so dog doesn't get a chance to 'backweave'.

When you begin rotating first 2 poles, move to 2 and 8 o'clock, then work through all the entries on the arc as AD said before you rotate them again to 1 and 7 o'clock - then go back and work all the entries again before adding the 2nd set of poles.

To get the type of entries you mentioned where you send your dog down to the entry from part way down the poles or at the opposite end, you need to increase the difficulty of the entries very slowly. It helps if you record keep- I had a diagram where I marked the position all the entries I worked for each session so I could target those where the succes rate was not as great and make sure I went slowly on those, but continued to work them. Record keeping is also good for keeping a note of your own body position, whether you stood still or ran with the dog - try to mix it up.

Hope this helps. I got really good results with my young BC using this method but it is hard when you are doing it alone and have to rely on e-books and DVD - however excellent they might be. I had a couple of points where I bashed my head against the wall but luckily another instructor at the club where I teach and train was also doing it, so I had someone to compare notes with, so to speak. That really helps.

There is also a lot of footage out there on you-tube of people applying the method incorrectly which doesn't help so be careful what you watch.

Sorry for the brief answer - what KC said.

We should get together with Huski and do a bit of work on it.

[Cosmolo]

Thanks AD, my girl has a pretty good toy drive, but all of her shaping has been done with food- is this likely to be a problem?

[FHRP]

Great stuff with the brown one RubyStar!!

For the first time in.... ever, I think, I am actually looking forward to taking Polo to agility training classes when they start back up in Feb. We had the first ribbon trial of the year last night and Polo had his first run in Excellent jumping. We were a long way off a Q, but after starting to walk it how I thought I should to manage feral Polo I thought stuff it and walked it how I would like to be able to handle him!! I still need to train him more to understand my cues for turns etc. but for the first time in ages, it felt like he was doing agility, not just running feral around a paddock doing the occasional obstacle! He even sent home over three jumps, a huge effort for him. Maybe, just maybe, he actually starting to "get" this game of agility... I'm sure he'll bring me down to earth at our next run though.... which will have weaves in it

[Agility Dogs]

Thanks AD, my girl has a pretty good toy drive, but all of her shaping has been done with food- is this likely to be a problem?

Not really - the initial stage of the process is done with food on a hard surface and then your progress to grass - at that point you want them driving for the toy. By that stage though they have value for the poles (transferred from the food) and you are starting so you do want good toy drive.

It's not necessary to have them baying for blood (or the toy), but you do want them to have some level of excitement. My boy for example isn't the most OTT example of a BC, but he still 'gets' the game and will work for his toy. That is probably enough, although you won't get the extreme results that SG seems to with her dogs. (But then again for those of us who have 'real' jobs we aren't ever likely to)

[J...]

I trained Darcy in 2 x 2 out of the Shaping Success book as a total novice, so while her weaves were ok there was some gaps. She struggles with "easy side" entries and pops the 10th pole probably 20% of the time, especially with weave poles that aren't "right" i.e. narrower than the standard, wobble in their bases etc.

I've recently put her back through at the same pace as my baby dog Zee, and the improvement in her weaving is awesome. She's nailing some really tough "easy side" entries and hasn't popped a weave pole the entire way through. That's with working some really tough distractions like me running in the total opposite direction, stopping dead, sitting down, throwing toys when she's only half way through.

I've found it's a skill you need to keep working them on, just like everything else in agility. :D

I'm rapt with Zee's weaving - she went from 6 poles to rolling 6's and into 12 straight poles the other night in a new location. I'm going to offset the poles like SG does in the DVD as her footwork is good but she's trying to go so fast she's losing her stride occasionally. But my baby dog is weaving

[Tassie]

WTG FHRP and Polo - sounds like you're going to have a fun year.

although you won't get the extreme results that SG seems to with her dogs. (But then again for those of us who have 'real' jobs we aren't ever likely to)

:D Ain't that the truth, AD!

[huski]

We should get together with Huski and do a bit of work on it.

We definitely should, because Huski's dog (read: Huski) is not going great at weavers.