Agility Training Talk Thread

[DeltaCharlie]

Interesting video match-up of the recent 8" AKC champion vs the 26" AKC Champion. The video focuses on the see-saw but I actually found it interesting to see the differences elsewhere on course. The bigger dog picked up ground over contacts being the more powerful dog, while the little dog picked up ground on the jumps and turns with less airtime and the smaller stride when turning.

[The Spotted Devil]

Just a question for you agility people out there...

The club I train don't allow the dogs to do agility wearing a harness or slip collar. Fair enough but now they make me take off the little bell attached to his collar (which is difficult to remove) and also make me take off his little t-shirt. He is a chinese crested hairless dog and his clothes are often a necessity. I think they are going too far sometimes. Their argument is they are afraid this stuff will get caught on the equipment. If I could see a risk of this actually happening there's no way I'd allow my dog to be at risk. I think there would be more chance of me winning lotto than seeing these items get caught up. They seem to be taking all the fun out of it. They need to realize that we (the owners) do have some degree of responsibility and aren't stupid.

So my question is...is this normal or are they being too strict?

I run both my dogs without collars - always have and always will purely for safety reasons. They both get heavily rewarded for putting their collars on so I don't have problems with them running off.

Regarding the t-shirt, I agree with the club's policy - not only safety but also freedom of movement. Is it that your little dog feels the cold? If so I would be doing a really good warm up with him, whip off the shirt, run the course, reward and then put his t-shirt back on. My Dally really feels the cold and this routine works very well for him - it's become his pre-trial routine (whether a cool or warm coat) so he knows when to switch on.

[BlackJaq]

Hi guys, I am sure this has probably been asked about a million times already but how did you start your dogs on weaves?

We have a new agility club starting up in my very rural town and so far, we are really enjoying it, but have not had a serious go at learning the weave poles yet. The ladies who run the club seem to have a basic idea on how to train it but being essentially beginners themselves, I thought I might ask here since I would rather have a clear idea on what to do before I start training :)

[Podengo]

Both dogs that I have trained recently were trained with the 2x2 method, and the next two will be as well :)

Oh and my dog agility club uses 2x2 to teach all new dogs to weave now, it's great, even new handlers with dogs that have done no training before can figure it out pretty quickly!

Edited April 21, 2013 by DiscoDobe

[Podengo]

Here is a video showing the process from start to finish, but I really, really recommend you get hold of the DVD... Anyone I know with problems teaching 2x2 taught it from the old method outlined in the book, or from youtube videos :)

[sheena]

Just a question for you agility people out there...

The club I train don't allow the dogs to do agility wearing a harness or slip collar. Fair enough but now they make me take off the little bell attached to his collar (which is difficult to remove) and also make me take off his little t-shirt. He is a chinese crested hairless dog and his clothes are often a necessity. I think they are going too far sometimes. Their argument is they are afraid this stuff will get caught on the equipment. If I could see a risk of this actually happening there's no way I'd allow my dog to be at risk. I think there would be more chance of me winning lotto than seeing these items get caught up. They seem to be taking all the fun out of it. They need to realize that we (the owners) do have some degree of responsibility and aren't stupid.

So my question is...is this normal or are they being too strict?

I run both my dogs without collars - always have and always will purely for safety reasons. They both get heavily rewarded for putting their collars on so I don't have problems with them running off.

Regarding the t-shirt, I agree with the club's policy - not only safety but also freedom of movement. Is it that your little dog feels the cold? If so I would be doing a really good warm up with him, whip off the shirt, run the course, reward and then put his t-shirt back on. My Dally really feels the cold and this routine works very well for him - it's become his pre-trial routine (whether a cool or warm coat) so he knows when to switch on.

In a proper trial the judge will not allow you to have anything but a flat collar (ANKC) with absolutely nothing dangling from it at all. ADAA competition, you have to remove the collar all together. We have a Chinese Hairless in our club & I have seen him run trials with his jacket on, but it depends on the judge & the weather conditions.

[Sayreovi]

I was going to ask in another thread but think I would get more responses here.

Would a judge allow you to take a toy/reward in the ring, do a short quick section (well under SCT) and leave the ring?

I am thinking it might be OK at novice level but what about excellent/masters?

I am thinking I am also putting too much pressure on her, we had done so well previously I think we should be doing better and it's travelling to her and she is so perceptive/focussed on me, any tiny change she notices. She is still happy but so slow, but I must change when we go in the ring.....outside she is drivey, focussed and excited as soon as we walk into it's not as exciting?

At training she is so quick and full on, it's like running two different dogs.

She knows where her reward is and drives home, and pulls me to her reward, it's the start and middle (especially for a 24 obstacle course) that we are a bit off :/

I am going to give NADAC a go and see if that brings her drive up a bit as she knows I will have her reward on me.

Any ideas? I know we can do so much better but I am unsure of how to undo the damage I've done

On a positive note :) We got our first excellent agility pass and our last pass for our novice gamblers title :D I was thrilled with the gamble as it was pretty hard for novice! Got lost on the masters course (oops) and pulled away too early from a jump and she came with me in the other :)

Edited April 21, 2013 by tollersowned

[RubyStar]

If you're talking ANKC, no they won't allow a toy to go into the ring. I do believe ADAA allow it if you do their NFC?

I feel for you, TO, as I have similar issues with my girls. I don't really have any advice, because if I did, I probably wouldn't be in the same predicament!

With Millie, without fail, I lose her at least once every run, then we either get it together to finish off decently, or she runs around half hearted missing jumps. So I've decided I am going to give her a bit of a break from agility, then maybe bring her back with some novice NFC rounds. We are entered next week already so we may as well give that a crack, but after that, yeah, might just give it a break and work on more joy and less tuning out in training with short, fun sequences, because our problem isn't restricted to just trialling (trialling just brings it out more obviously).

With Ruby, she goes slow but tends to run faster if she's chasing me on the run, rather than me going slow or standing stationary waiting for her to catch up. We went clear in masters jumping twice this weekend, but one was out of time by just under 3 seconds (over handling on a serpentine because it was on a weird angle, so figured this was better than her taking the wrong jump or the jump from the wrong side, it definitely cost us time). She also went clear twice in excellent agility and today's run (in the rain!) I decided to just RUN in parts I could and Ruby gave it her all, definitely increasing her speed!! I was just so happy that she was happy :D

Edited April 21, 2013 by RubyStar

[J...]

I was going to ask in another thread but think I would get more responses here.

Would a judge allow you to take a toy/reward in the ring, do a short quick section (well under SCT) and leave the ring?

I am thinking it might be OK at novice level but what about excellent/masters?

No, unfortunately, regardless of what level you're at. If you happen to have a toy on you and pull it out and reward the dog as you run out, then you're not going to get thrown out but I would expect there would be some sort of repercussion.

Teach a behaviour that you can do in the ring, build up a huge amount of reward for it and use that as a reward or for motivation. Whether it be a hand touch, bark on command, weaving through your legs, spins etc. You'll get plenty of benefits from teaching those kind of tricks as well, so maybe look at 2 or 3 different ones.

There is no silver bullet for it, it will take plenty of work. But it's worth it. :)

[DeltaCharlie]

I was going to ask in another thread but think I would get more responses here.

Would a judge allow you to take a toy/reward in the ring, do a short quick section (well under SCT) and leave the ring?

I am thinking it might be OK at novice level but what about excellent/masters?

It never hurts to ask a judge first. I went through a great deal of issues with Charlie running out the ring at one point and really stressing out, so I checked with judges first if they minded me doing a happy lap with a ball in my hand ( I wasn't intending to throw it in fairness to the dogs in other rings). Some said yes, some said no, it just depends on the judge. Then ADAA brought in NFC so it worked out perfectly.

I will always let a judge know if I do not intend to do the full course, I believe it is a matter of respect. I see people go out there and just do a happy lap without prior warning for the judge and they don't tend to like that too much, I have heard judges start questioning themselves and their own course making ability if a few people don't do it as they set it. I will have a quick word with the judge during walking time (or at some point before the course runs) and just let them know that I am having a few issues, or have a dog just into that level and isn't ready for some of the challenges, and would they mind if I just simplified it a little. I have never had a judge say no, but I have had plenty of them thank me for letting them know first. I just see it as a courtesy thing :)

[Kavik]

When I had issues with Kaos leaving the ring I told the judges the problem I was having and asked if it was OK if I shortened or simplified the course, and all the ones I asked were OK with that.

With my new puppy I am hoping to cultivate a good tug so I can make use of ADAA NFC runs, which I couldn't with Kaos who won't tug at agility.

[Podengo]

I have seen quite a few people here run with toys, or only do half courses, they always ask the judge if its ok first. Never seen a judge say no, sometimes they make them run last.

[Sayreovi]

Teach a behaviour that you can do in the ring, build up a huge amount of reward for it and use that as a reward or for motivation. Whether it be a hand touch, bark on command, weaving through your legs, spins etc. You'll get plenty of benefits from teaching those kind of tricks as well, so maybe look at 2 or 3 different ones.

Will give this a go, she gets well rewarded for spins/barking on command but might try upping it and making them awesome! Will work on her tugging as well.

Thanks for the replies, I think I may just pick and choose a few judges I think may be open too it, and go from there. I will definately advise the judge of my plans. In the mean time I will keep working on the above and look into doing a NADAC trial and see if that is really the difference.

[aussielover]

Well I am very proud of Mindy.

She gained her AD title this weekend and she managed 2 JDX passes despite me actively hindering her in several sections.

She was such a good girl

I really need to work on my handling though. I realised we've never actually practised a rear cross over a jump and that I need to work on my positioning on crosses so i don't block the jump from the dog and don't almost run into the jump!

[RubyStar]

What a great weekend for you, AL!!!!

Edited April 30, 2013 by RubyStar

[Podengo]

Elsie graduated her beginner agility class last night yay! And got the fastest time on the graduation course :)

Weaving 12 poles now on both sides very quickly now, so time for proofing and adding it to courses. We've entered agility classes in June that have weaves, so have 1 month to get this sorted! :D

Now that classes are sort of on/off for the winter, we'll get back into regular contact training... Her running dogwalk (Trkman method) was looking good about a month ago when we gave it a shot, and I am about to get an on-demand copy of Rachel Sander's running A-frame box method... Hopefully it works out!

[skip]

Congrats DiscoDobe on Elsie's progress. Sounds like she is having fun.

I don't know many people actually teaching running contacts by any method. besides the hit and miss option.

Why did you decide to use running and how is it going? Does your training club support RC's or not?

Just really curious as I have a young kelpie about to start contact training but I have to decide what method. I have only used a stopped contact before and probably will do some type of stopped contact again as I could need the time to get in place for the rest of the course.

Thanks

[Podengo]

Congrats DiscoDobe on Elsie's progress. Sounds like she is having fun.

I don't know many people actually teaching running contacts by any method. besides the hit and miss option.

Why did you decide to use running and how is it going? Does your training club support RC's or not?

Just really curious as I have a young kelpie about to start contact training but I have to decide what method. I have only used a stopped contact before and probably will do some type of stopped contact again as I could need the time to get in place for the rest of the course.

Thanks

I decided to teach it to do something different, I don't like 2on2off much, I see it fail in trials a lot, and it just slows dogs down... Elsie is already a small dog in her height class, making her stop for contacts is not going to help her course times (and as NZ is a win-based, not clear round based agility system, speed is very important).

I figure I can always retrain stopped contacts if RC don't work, and get contacts almost as good as what everyone else already has.

My club doesn't teach running contacts at all, only a few of the smaller competitive dog handlers have taught RC, and they taught "run and pray" not any actual method. They don't mind what I do though, but I don't encourage any newbies to teach it. I just tell people that we're the team everyone will learn from haha, as not very many people here with big dogs do any kind of running contact, so if it works out for Elsie, more people are willing to give it a go with their new dogs... If it fails miserably and I am here retraining stopped contacts next year... well so be it! Lesson learned :D

[Kavik]

I'll keep an eye on your progress DiscoDobe and wish you luck with your running contacts :)

I have to decide what I am going to teach my new pup in terms of contacts! Not sure yet at this stage.

[megan_]

Next dog will be running AFrame (because the angle is so big I think stopped contacts put a strain on elbows and shoulders if they drive really hard to position) and stopped dog walk. I'll use either Sylvia Trkman (sp) or Susan G's method for running contacts. Daisy Peel has an online course too for her method, so I might look at that to see if it is a goer. Not a fan of run and pray. I used to do this with my boy and he always hit them but my next dog will have a higher drive and I've seen some dangerous jumps in comps from the "run and pray" trained dogs.