ness Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) Looking good RS. Just on the RH/LH issue what happens if you just send her through the poles without running alongside. Will she drive through the poles to a target? One thing I did instead of the 2 lots of 6 poles was to then go back and add 2 poles at a time so dog drives 6 without my support, then add another 2 so the dog is driving to the end of 8, then 10 and then the 12. If the dog is able to compete the poles without you supporting them (and she looks to take off to them without any issue so I think if she doesn't already you couldn't build it) then you may have less issue with the RH side. Just a thought. Edited January 18, 2013 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Could she be anticipating the reward? I think that is the issue with Fergus, he pops out and gives me a 'throw the reward!" look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 She's looking great RS. Love 2x2. I guess the only thing I can think of with the pulling out at 10 when she's on your right, is to keep at it, making sure the reward is thrown straight doen the line. I guess you could switch to 4 poles for a while to still work the straight line exit, but take the physical pressure of weaving 12. You do the same thing - work both sides - work round the clock, lateral distance, proofing against handler motion etc. etc. Thanks, Tassie, I actually think I will do exactly that I know she can do 12 now, so yes I will take the physical pressure off having to do all of them just to proof things like entries and exits. Her entries are actually pretty good, can work the arc but still not to the full degree, which is another thing I want to work on without having to do all 12. Up there for thinking, you! I obviously don't have a lot of it going on up there at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) Looking good RS. Just on the RH/LH issue what happens if you just send her through the poles without running alongside. Will she drive through the poles to a target? One thing I did instead of the 2 lots of 6 poles was to then go back and add 2 poles at a time so dog drives 6 without my support, then add another 2 so the dog is driving to the end of 8, then 10 and then the 12. If the dog is able to compete the poles without you supporting them (and she looks to take off to them without any issue so I think if she doesn't already you couldn't build it) then you may have less issue with the RH side. Just a thought. More great input, thanks ness I haven't tried her running them with a target at the end, but I think I will try that. Only problem is if she pulls out, she can easily self reward as she'll beat me to it! I did test her out on driving forward on the dogwalk last night to a target at the end, which she did, so one step for progress I thought about adding another 2 each time instead of the 6 and 6, but instead just went the whole hog I will however go back to 4 or 6 poles and as I said, work the entries and exits but also try have her driving forward without me running next to her. She already takes off to do them without me (as can be seen in part 2 video ) so I don't think she'll have much issue driving forward without me. We'll see :) I try not to run too close to her as I don't want my body to have to support her, but your idea is great so I'll try that, too :) Edited January 18, 2013 by RubyStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) LOL RS have you tried some of the party trick entries - standing at the far end and sending the dog to get the entry is so much fun :laugh:. Just on the target - useful if you have access to a second person unless you use something like a jackpot container so the dog can't self reward. Edited January 18, 2013 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Could she be anticipating the reward? I think that is the issue with Fergus, he pops out and gives me a 'throw the reward!" look. Hmm, no I don't think she is, or else she'd be doing the same on my left? One thing about training the Labs over her that I prefer, is that my two will work eagerly for a toy reward (not tug, though), while Pippa is all about SHOW ME THE FOOOOOOOD!!!! She tugs like a demon at home, and can do a bit of tugging on the training grounds with enthusiasm (with her play growl to boot ), but offer that as a reward away from home and she doesn't want a bar of it. So I also want to work on getting her to accept tug/toys as a reward cos it's a PITA throwing food with jumping, she just doesn't see it. I taught the weaving to start with in the backyard with a toy and she was happy to accept that, but move that away from home and soon she wanted the food. I gave in Bad me. So lots of work to do to undo that reliance on food!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 LOL RS have you tried some of the party trick entries - standing at the far end and sending the dog to get the entry is so much fun :laugh:. Just on the target - useful if you have access to a second person unless you use something like a jackpot container so the dog can't self reward. I don't think Pippa is quite ready for party trick entries Let's wait a while before we confuse the poor dog :p I guess I could get her used to driving to a container of food. Was thinking about getting one of those $50 reward system things when they were free shipping on Clean Run, but wondered if I'd ever truly use it. Maybe I should have got it Was quite a bargain, it was like an el cheapo Manners Minder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Get a ready treat from Clean Run. Best. Purchase. Ever. Apart from all the other stuff :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I have the manners minder but I find it too slow to use and it makes a very audible beep which I don't like. Does the manners minder make any noise TSD? Do I need one of those? *I already have stuff in the cart...* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) Reckon your cheapest solution RS would be to have a nice well meaning friend to assist :laugh:. Honestly I am not super convinced on the whole building value for a reward the dog isn't already keen on. I understand people do it buy why not work with what your dogs strengths are. How about a throwable bait bag if you want something you can throw containing food. Edited January 18, 2013 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Can't claim credit for the 4 poles, RS - learnt that one years ago from Deb Kelly (Guirmere BCs) when she came down for a seminar. I've had a bit of success converting a foodie to toys wiht some of those tuggies with a food pouch - got a nice sheepy one from Agility Click, and there are a couple of nice cloth frisbee things with a pocket. You need something with a bit of weight to throw, I think. megan_ - I know what you mean about the looking for the thrown reward - Rory will do that - as he comes out of the last pole though, thankfully. I think the timing of the throw is critical - and the direction - you want to be rewarding the head down drive through to the correct exit, so the throw needs to be hard and lowm and perfectly timed - yeah, right, I know - this from someone who has been known to scare grown ob judges with her DB throws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Get a ready treat from Clean Run. Best. Purchase. Ever. Apart from all the other stuff :laugh: Got a liinky please, TSD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Clean Run Ready Treat - http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2139 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Cleanrun also has the throwable tubes (I don't use them as I don't believe they're food grade and they really smelt plasticcy when I bought them). Lucy (my ms) loves food too. She loves to tug but food is her # 1 reward. I use 4paws for throwing food and after a few goes she now sees it and drives towards it. I also use big pieces of baked chicken. Did you use food for your 2x2? I only ask because SG seems to insist you use a toy but Lucy won't drive as hard for a toy on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Reckon your cheapest solution RS would be to have a nice well meaning friend to assist :laugh:. Honestly I am not super convinced on the whole building value for a reward the dog isn't already keen on. I understand people do it buy why not work with what your dogs strengths are. How about a throwable bait bag if you want something you can throw containing food. Oh I too agree about building reward for something the dog doesn't value and to use what they like best. For example, Millie flat out won't tug. Rather than waste my time teaching it to her, then getting her to value it, I am just using her most favourite thing in the whole world - her squeaky ball! But it's a bit different with Pippa because she DOES love to tug. I don't want her to rely on food so much for various reasons. One is for the obedience ring, but the other is because rewarding with a toy in agility is so much easier IMO. Love being able to throw a ball. Pippa doesn't highly value a ball so that's out, but she does love tug, so she just has to learn it is also a great reward as well as food! It's sometimes hard to "rent a friend" because they are busy training themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Cleanrun also has the throwable tubes (I don't use them as I don't believe they're food grade and they really smelt plasticcy when I bought them). Lucy (my ms) loves food too. She loves to tug but food is her # 1 reward. I use 4paws for throwing food and after a few goes she now sees it and drives towards it. I also use big pieces of baked chicken. Did you use food for your 2x2? I only ask because SG seems to insist you use a toy but Lucy won't drive as hard for a toy on the ground. If that question was directed to me, I used a tugga wubba to start with in the backyard and she would drive to it (then I'd run to her and tug with her). Took it on the road and she'd only half-heartedly drive to the toy, then just wander off, so it wasn't holding her attention well enough. So I then started throwing bits of food because I already knew food was her #1. The problem with food is so much repetition, that's a lot of food, so I only throw smallish pieces. As she isn't my dog, my parents are of the type that food = love and keep giving her treats, so I have to be careful what I give her in training or she ends up too fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Clean Run Ready Treat - http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2139 :D Thanks ness. And no - not tempted :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Clean Run Ready Treat - http://www.cleanrun....Product_ID=2139 :D Thanks ness. And no - not tempted :laugh: I was tempted when it was free shipping - now at $38 for postage alone, no thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I still think maybe a closed jackpot container might work ok so long as you race her to the end and open it quickly :). I would quite happily rely solely on food if the dog was motivated by it. Especially as far as obedience is concerned. Its very easy to find somewhere to jackpot your dog with a food reward after they have finished in the ring whereas its more complicated if you have a toy motivated dog because people seem to take offense at tugging or playing with your dog. Having said that I have one of each. My problem is my seriously tug motivated dog is no longer allowed to tug (at least not yet ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) I like having a mix of food and toy reward. I rely heavily on food for obedience training and rewarding outside the ring, but play is always a good thing to have. Problem with Pippa and playing between exercises is she loves hand touches so much that she insists on barking each time she does it, and sometimes gets so excited that the touch becomes a munch I like a mix of both for agility. I use food for teaching contacts, and love having a toy available for weaves and jumping. But if I must continue with food only with Pippa I will, but I won't give up on the tug reward just yet. We have a good tugging session before we commence training and she's into it, then switches into food mode. Sigh! Edited January 18, 2013 by RubyStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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