Agility Training Talk Thread

[Kavik]

I've found an area where Kaos is asking lots of questions. If I decel for a turn (say for a front cross to go back the same way or a post turn), sometimes he will stop and pull off the jump, or will do that jump very slowly.

Any suggestions welcome.

Try thinking of this issue in terms of commitment. If he is pulling off the jump, you are cuing the turn before he has committed to it. If he is making the turn slowly, you are hanging around for too long after he has committed.

I think too often we get caught up in what a system says we should do or the latest trend in training at the expense of reading our individual dogs. I see a lot of people stopping short on turns lately as that is what they are seeing the big names do. It's only really appropriate if your dog is driving forward like their dogs are. The problem is that the more people try to copy this with dogs who are not driving forward, the more they are encouraging those dogs not to drive forward.

Yes you are right about commitment :) I need to get better with my timing of signals and my own speed/pace.

[Tassie]

You're not alone there Kavik!! And it's hard with two dogs - needing different timing. :laugh:

That reminded me too of another good bit of explanation from Nancy - she was explaining commitment point of the dog as the dog's last stride/contact with the ground (more or less) - I found that a little bit easier to visualise than just :commitment point".

[Kavik]

Any suggestions of things I can set up at home with jumps and a tunnel that might help? What makes it tricky is sometimes Kaos is in a fast running mode where he just goes! and I have to work hard to turn him and call him off obstacles, other times he pays more attention to me and is not as fast but those are the times when he pulls off obstacles easily.

[Tassie]

Yep - that all makes perfect sense - when he's slower he's in handler focus - like Zora in RV's clip - very aware of what handler is doing - so can pull off easily if shoulders just dip a bit or head turns or feet turn - when they're going flat out - like my misguided missile, and they're completely in obstacle focus, nothing much short of a nuclear explosion is going to get their attention off the obstacle ahead. I'm not good with set ups - but reckon someone else will have some suggestions. Some accel/decel flat work would probably be good - not eto self- need to do that with Mr Rory, and something where you can vary tight turns with flat out and back again.

[The Spotted Devil]

Welcome RallyValley! Hope you enjoy agility!

Kavik - I set up a double box and just practice hard running x 3 jumps or hard running x 2 jumps and decel into a turn. If Zig slows down I will do a few more hard running x 3 jumps and if he is taking no notice I will do a few more of the decel into turns. I try not to reward "careful" as he is prone to that.

[Kavik]

Kaos also tends to be "careful".

[pie]

Any suggestions of things I can set up at home with jumps and a tunnel that might help? What makes it tricky is sometimes Kaos is in a fast running mode where he just goes! and I have to work hard to turn him and call him off obstacles, other times he pays more attention to me and is not as fast but those are the times when he pulls off obstacles easily.

Ahhh sounds like my problem - a main goal at the moment is getting tight wraps but sometimes I decel and she calls off despite me verbalising that she should take it, other times it is perfect and other times she way overshoots even though I let her know early, it's like it all depends what mood she is in! haha

Edited September 17, 2013 by pie

[Kavik]

Glad to know I'm not the only one who finds it difficult!

[Vickie]

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That's such a good point, Vickie. It was one of the things that Nancy Gyes was emphasizing ... it's good to know the theory - whatever handling system you're using, but you have to know yourself and your dog too. I liked her explanation that for example, knowing a positional cue in the GD system, gives you a direction to be aiming, say for a front cross, but timing overrides position, so if you're not going to make it in time, you cue the FC in a timely way. Same with accel/decel - if you can't make the place you would ideally be, you cue the decel in time for your dog to respond appropriately. I probably haven't done justice to Nancy's explanation .

Actually I don't think there is as much difference in the 2 main systems as people want to believe there is I teach people who use both systems & the really important stuff is the same.

For timing of turns, accel/decel etc, the ideal place for me is always based on where the dog is. The turn happens when the turn needs to happen. With experience, we can be mostly accurate in working the spot on the ground out, but nothing beats reading your dog.

I find drawing lines on the ground & exaggerating arm signals can help increase dogs commitment and aid the handler in recognising it.

[Tassie]

Yes - that was the message I was getting. It's all about trying to make sure the dog doesn't have questions - so clarity and timeliness of cues are the important things. And yes - reading the dog is key, and I guess training the cues so that the dog is clear about what they mean, and can trust the handler. (In my case, I think that's a bit the unreachable goal - but it's a lot of fun trying to get there :laugh: .)

[Agility Dogs]

Actually I don't think there is as much difference in the 2 main systems as people want to believe there is

[Vickie]

Was thinking about your issue a bit more this week Lia & made an observation of a common issue with students.

I notice lots of people are not continuing to move through their turns and/or are not driving out of them.

If you stop in the middle of your turn, your dog has 2 options. One is to decel or stop with you and the other is to continue on the path they are on at the point you stop. If they have already committed to the obstacle and you stop, they will often fly right past you. They have no choice. If you stop before commitment to the obstacle, they have no information about where to land.

[Kavik]

Thank you Vickie that is really good information. I think I need to attend workshops or lessons on how to do turns :laugh:

Anyone have a good video on what handling for a good turn looks like? I think I do both of those things, no wonder the poor dog gets confused :laugh:

Edited September 20, 2013 by Kavik

[Vickie]

This is a good clip to demonstrate the difference between stopping & moving :)

[Vickie]

And this one is not perfect (I made a bad choice and hesitated in her way on last turn) but its pretty good for a baby dog who would prefer to run everything in full kamikaze extension

[Kavik]

Thanks Vickie!

[whitka]

Does anyone here have Shaping success by Susan Garrett? What do you think of it?

[pie]

I have it - I thought it was good - got me into the mindset of trainig each thing individually until they are how you want them instead of sequencing too early (mistake made with first dog).

[whitka]

Thanks Pie, been thinking for ages if I was going to add it to my list but i'll prob get it anyway :laugh:

My copy of The focused puppy arrived today, cant wait to start reading it

[The Spotted Devil]

The Focussed Puppy is just lovely!

Anything SG is worth trying I reckon!