Agility Training Talk Thread

[Tassie]

Awesome single stepping Zig man - and love the head down intensity - weaving to die for

[Podengo]

So had a win a weekend ago, followed by 6 eliminations in 6 runs this weekend just gone! Damn agility!! Have told Elsie she is either going to become an obedience dog, or I may sell her to the gypsies as a hunting dog cos she sure isn't being a good agility dog (though she was AMAZING at training last night of course...)

[The Spotted Devil]

Awesome single stepping Zig man - and love the head down intensity - weaving to die for

Thank you Tassie :D It makes my heart sing to think we can train a dog to perform such a complex behaviour with such joy

So had a win a weekend ago, followed by 6 eliminations in 6 runs this weekend just gone! Damn agility!! Have told Elsie she is either going to become an obedience dog, or I may sell her to the gypsies as a hunting dog cos she sure isn't being a good agility dog (though she was AMAZING at training last night of course...)

Oh DD! Ain't that always the way!!! My Em did a similar thing at a retrieving trial on Sunday - all this stuff that she can do with her eyes shut was SUCH a struggle for her! OK, so it didn't help that I'd had 3 hours sleep after working a 16 hour day but gee I had to use a lot of whistles :laugh: However, thinking back I have been stretching her on some concepts the last few weeks and I suspect she lost a bit of confidence in herself. Back to basics this week and she is firing like the reliable little feral I know and love :D

[Tumbleweed]

I listened to an interesting podcast on Bad Dog Agility yesterday regarding the One Mind Handling System, from Finland.

http://baddogagility.com/episode-41-janita-jaakko-and-the-one-mind-system/

Has anyone here had any experience with this system? What are your thoughts/experiences?

I did a quick check but couldn't find any previous posts on this topic. If this has appeared in a past thread please send me the link and I will have a look there.

Thanks!

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

it looks a little bit like the greg derrett system in parts, with a bit of sheep herding arm waving stuff and maybe silvia trkman tho I'm not as familiar.

It is very interesting that it was developed as a handling solution for deaf dogs based on the way the dog learned or responded.

really nice go outs and round the backs too. Not quite sure how the handler manages to be so accurate to get the dog to do the right obstacle the right way and not the trap next to it.

[Agility Dogs]

I listened to an interesting podcast on Bad Dog Agility yesterday regarding the One Mind Handling System, from Finland.

http://baddogagility.com/episode-41-janita-jaakko-and-the-one-mind-system/

Has anyone here had any experience with this system? What are your thoughts/experiences?

I did a quick check but couldn't find any previous posts on this topic. If this has appeared in a past thread please send me the link and I will have a look there.

Thanks!

She's got amazing connection with her dog.

To me it looks a lot like what many of the Euro/US guys are moving towards - lots of blinds and very much a motion based system that focusses on pre cuing turns and accel rather than the ability to run to position and show decel like Greg's system does.

Like any system as long as you are consistent with your cues and stay connected with the dog you are going to do well.

Personally I think the introduction of blinds into a system, especially when creating a turn (like after the a-frame) with them opens up lots of questions unless you have the time and dog training ability and timing on course to get it right. :)

[Kavik]

I've found an area where Kaos is asking lots of questions. If I decel for a turn (say for a front cross to go back the same way or a post turn), sometimes he will stop and pull off the jump, or will do that jump very slowly. We also did a sequence at training where we did a lead out pivot which asked the dog to go over one jump then past the plane of another jump which was offset, then when we pivot to take that jump. He was very hesitant to go past the plane of the jump.

What I have just tried one session of is working on sending him over one jump for our tight turns (send from stationary over a jump then either front cross or post turn), and plan to add another jump or a tunnel and another jump to be able to work the accel and decel. Just realised I also need to work some different angles too. I am able to use tugging as a reward for this in the backyard but will have to use food or a thrown toy at training.

Any suggestions welcome.

[Agility Dogs]

I've found an area where Kaos is asking lots of questions. If I decel for a turn (say for a front cross to go back the same way or a post turn), sometimes he will stop and pull off the jump, or will do that jump very slowly. We also did a sequence at training where we did a lead out pivot which asked the dog to go over one jump then past the plane of another jump which was offset, then when we pivot to take that jump. He was very hesitant to go past the plane of the jump.

What I have just tried one session of is working on sending him over one jump for our tight turns (send from stationary over a jump then either front cross or post turn), and plan to add another jump or a tunnel and another jump to be able to work the accel and decel. Just realised I also need to work some different angles too. I am able to use tugging as a reward for this in the backyard but will have to use food or a thrown toy at training.

Any suggestions welcome.

I found that with CK adding verbals in for tight turns REALLY helped solve this problem.

So.....

'check check check' means take the jump and turn tight. So rather than him guessing (cos I had muddied the water somewhere along the line) he now knows for sure that I want him to take the jump.

Also - I like using the Pool Noodle upright in this stuff now. I find once you've built value for them it really helps with drive in the other part of the game.

:)

[Kavik]

Yeah I plan to add a 'check check' cue. I have used the pool noodle upright a bit.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

bloody check check and swing...

as best I could tell - they meant turn tight back towards me or turn tight and back away from me not necessarily left or right.

So I watched one person doing check check for turn tight around the nearest pole and back to me... around both poles...

which doesn't really work if you want check check off the dog walk and into the tunnel on that side (which side)...

damnagmanit - how can I teach my dog if I'm confused...

I think it doesn't matter as long as you're consistent. And I'm so crap with my left and rights especially if I'm trying to get it right relative to someone else (the dog's left and right). Away from me and to me is easier...

[Kavik]

Hi MRB!

I didn't do the running contacts section, but I plan to teach check check as being do a tight turn around the next jump and come back towards me. So not something I would use for coming off the dogwalk straight into the tunnel, as it means to take the next obstacle tightly, not tight turn off the dogwalk. (I have a stopped dogwalk).

I will report back in after another couple of sessions and when I add a verbal cue.

I only have non winged jumps at home, hopefully that will still work OK.

I guess this confusion is what happens when you don't train it properly the first time (as he is my first competing dog) :laugh:

[The Spotted Devil]

Kavik if it is any help I teach the verbal for a wrap pretty much from the get go. Just one jump - give the verbal early. decel and reward heavily for wrapping the correct side. It's rare I put the verbal in so quickly but it seems to work.

[Kavik]

Thanks TSD! I wasn't sure when to add the verbal.

[The Spotted Devil]

Make sure you are clear though and separate the verbal cue from the physical cue. Mash them together and you will have issues.

[Agility Dogs]

bloody check check and swing...

as best I could tell - they meant turn tight back towards me or turn tight and back away from me not necessarily left or right.

So I watched one person doing check check for turn tight around the nearest pole and back to me... around both poles...

which doesn't really work if you want check check off the dog walk and into the tunnel on that side (which side)...

damnagmanit - how can I teach my dog if I'm confused...

I think it doesn't matter as long as you're consistent. And I'm so crap with my left and rights especially if I'm trying to get it right relative to someone else (the dog's left and right). Away from me and to me is easier...

ROFLMAO. I'm guessing you spent the weekend with Cathy!?

Susan's new system is about deciding what works for you and your communication system - its' going to be different for everyone. That's what is going to make it hard I'm thinking.

ETA - was talking to Cath tonight. Susan has different cues to what her instructors do simply because she doesn't move like they do. So.......

Check check check - take the jump, turn tight and come back on the plane that you approached on.

nananananana - round the back of the jump and stay in collection because we are going to turn again.

lalalalalalala - round the back of the jump and take it in extension.

Her trainers just use lalalalala, but they are also 23 and 26 y.o. with athletic backgrounds and can get to where the dog needs them to be to give them the physical cue for where to next. :)

Edited September 16, 2013 by Agility Dogs

[Vickie]

I've found an area where Kaos is asking lots of questions. If I decel for a turn (say for a front cross to go back the same way or a post turn), sometimes he will stop and pull off the jump, or will do that jump very slowly.

Any suggestions welcome.

Try thinking of this issue in terms of commitment. If he is pulling off the jump, you are cuing the turn before he has committed to it. If he is making the turn slowly, you are hanging around for too long after he has committed.

I think too often we get caught up in what a system says we should do or the latest trend in training at the expense of reading our individual dogs. I see a lot of people stopping short on turns lately as that is what they are seeing the big names do. It's only really appropriate if your dog is driving forward like their dogs are. The problem is that the more people try to copy this with dogs who are not driving forward, the more they are encouraging those dogs not to drive forward.

[RallyValley]

I'm glad to be joining this thread again as I finally have an agility dog in training again!

Because of my crappy shift work job I'm doing private lessons at this stage with an awesome instructor. :) I am very proud to say that after our latest lesson we were able to do a basic sequence, it's a massive case of good dog, shame about the handler but at least I'm aware :)

And sorry I can't add anything constructive to the current discussion, just don't know enough!

Edited September 16, 2013 by RallyValley

[Agility Dogs]

I'm glad to be joining this thread again as I finally have an agility dog in training again!

Because of my crappy shift work job I'm doing private lessons at this stage with an awesome instructor. :) I am very proud to say that after our latest lesson we were able to do a basic sequence, it's a massive case of good dog, shame about the handler but at least I'm aware :)

And sorry I can't add anything constructive to the current discussion, just don't know enough!

NICE!!!

[Tassie]

I'm glad to be joining this thread again as I finally have an agility dog in training again!

Because of my crappy shift work job I'm doing private lessons at this stage with an awesome instructor. :) I am very proud to say that after our latest lesson we were able to do a basic sequence, it's a massive case of good dog, shame about the handler but at least I'm aware :)

And sorry I can't add anything constructive to the current discussion, just don't know enough!

Gotta be happy with that. You guys look like you're having fun, and she was really paying attention to you, so that if you turned a little bit too early at the top jump, she came with you. That's a good place for you guys to be at at this stage, I think.

[Tassie]

I've found an area where Kaos is asking lots of questions. If I decel for a turn (say for a front cross to go back the same way or a post turn), sometimes he will stop and pull off the jump, or will do that jump very slowly.

Any suggestions welcome.

Try thinking of this issue in terms of commitment. If he is pulling off the jump, you are cuing the turn before he has committed to it. If he is making the turn slowly, you are hanging around for too long after he has committed.

I think too often we get caught up in what a system says we should do or the latest trend in training at the expense of reading our individual dogs. I see a lot of people stopping short on turns lately as that is what they are seeing the big names do. It's only really appropriate if your dog is driving forward like their dogs are. The problem is that the more people try to copy this with dogs who are not driving forward, the more they are encouraging those dogs not to drive forward.

That's such a good point, Vickie. It was one of the things that Nancy Gyes was emphasizing ... it's good to know the theory - whatever handling system you're using, but you have to know yourself and your dog too. I liked her explanation that for example, knowing a positional cue in the GD system, gives you a direction to be aiming, say for a front cross, but timing overrides position, so if you're not going to make it in time, you cue the FC in a timely way. Same with accel/decel - if you can't make the place you would ideally be, you cue the decel in time for your dog to respond appropriately. I probably haven't done justice to Nancy's explanation .