Agility Training Talk Thread

[sheena]

If you could get hold of July's Clean Run magazine (you can download it digitally for just $5.00 from HERE, there is a whole article on teaching your dog the cloth chute, from start to finish. Well worth getting hold of. We are about to teach our young one the chute & will put the older one through the training as well just for good measure. I just have to get the sewing machine out & finish of the cloth. :)

ETA....correct link to the digital copy

Edited July 26, 2012 by sheena

[melinda10786]

I've ordered a copy to go through :)

[skip]

If its any help -- When I started to teach my small dogs the cloth tunnel I borowed a short tunnel (althou you could improvise) and sent the dogs thru using different material over the end. At first I used a light material and then put 2 light materials together. Next I made the material heavier until the dogs understood they are meant to push thru the tunnel chute. I used a sheet, a tarp and eventually added a blanket. I know my homemade chute was shorter but the principal of pushing under material is still there and it worked for me.

One of my dogs is 4 kg and some chutes are heavier than others, if it gets twisted a bit she really has to push thru it. If your dog goes in but then comes out maybe she just doesn't quite get it.

Good luck with it.

[Sayreovi]

Whoo hoo!!

Massive brag, Jovi's second trial today and my little girl picked up not one but two novice jumping passes!!!

Our agility runs were nice and one faults , first one was my silly fault. I started pulling away from the weavers too early and she came with me as she saw the Aframe *bugger* though she got the hard entry (which was the same entry for excellent and masters!) The rest of the run was faultless and I was extremely happy with that as at the start there was a line of tyre, jump, jump and then DW but you had to pull the dog before the DW onto a table. Jovi is a contact suck so I decided to lead out enough that I was blocking most of the DW and then pivot to drive her away from it and I was so happy it worked like a charm (love having an awesome start line wait! :D)

Second one happened on the weavers again, there was a dog tied up about 3 metres away from the weaves and as she was weaving it started barking at her and she turned her head for a second and missed a pole haha again the rest of the run was faultless.

Our first pass was a bit of a mess and slow but a pass :laugh:

Second one was very nice and quick, I nearly stuffed us up again as I didn't really know if she would take a tunnel as it was a bit of a tough entry but she did and it threw me out and I wasn't in the right spot for the next obstacle but she did it anyway and didn't even bat an eyelid when I rear crossed her while she was going in the tunnel :D

So very nice day out indeed :D

Can't wait for her to gain her confidence in a trial environment as she is going to be a very quick and nice dog to handle!

[piper]

Jazz has her first trial tomorrow for her 5th birthday. I am desperately hoping that a bad dress rehearsal makes for a good performance as you name it, she did it wrong at training this week. LOL.

She is a clean jumper and very very rarely takes out of orders as she is very responsive to me, my biggest problem is pulling her off of things as she responds to me moving but Wednesday night she was knocking bars, taking out of orders (tunnel and contact suck - where the hell did that come from????) and even missed her weaving entry. Oh not to mention pretending she had never seen a tyre. Thank god she did her contacts well, she had to get something right.

So fingers crossed that she finds her brain and holds it together tomorrow.

[ness]

Good Luck Piper and Jazz - fingers crossed for a good debut performance .

[aussielover]

I have a few questions-

I have a 2yo lab who jumps 600. I feel like we are doing ok, we've been to a few trials but only qualified recently in SPD and gamblers (at festival of agility) where she had a good, but not great performance.

I feel like we are going well in jumping- we have nearly qualified a few times but had a bar down each time.

She occasionally knocks bars in training as well. I don't think its a height thing because she easily clears 600 when she wants to and my jumps at home are at 650 and she doesn't usually knock them at home. I have noticed that a lot of the more "athletic" breeds like BCs and kelpies also tend to knock more bars as well (some dogs knock several, where as mine only generally knocks one) so I don't think its breed or conformation related

I have tried only rewarding for a clean jump and changing jump distances and angles.

Any other tips for dogs that knock bars every now and then or is it just one of those things?

Also our agility has really regressed. Although she's attentive during jumping trials she seems to go a bit mental when you add in the contact and weaves as well, always wanting to run off onto the contact equipment and recently, also wanting to run into tunnels randomly as well.

The worst was when she was in the middle of weaving and pulled out to run over to the see saw!

We're also having trouble with weaving in trials. She's very inconsistent. Last weekend she didn't weave in her first 2 runs but by arvo she was weaving ok and did them fine for her last 2 runs (which we qualified in). She is fine at training as well.

Is it just a matter of spending more time training for these issues?

I have been away for a month so she's had no training (or interaction with me) for that time, so I am rather pleased with her efforts and getting our first 2 Q's without much ongoing training :)

Edited September 15, 2012 by aussielover

[piper]

Aussielover,

Have you done jump grids with her to work on her jumping skills? ALso have you looked at when she drops bars and what is happening? Often it is a poorly timed turn cue or command by the handler that causes the bar to come down.

As for the running to contacts - Piper and Jazz both went through that phase. Correct contacts are usually rewarded highly and the contact behaviour has normally been practiced and rewarded over and over and over so it becomes a high value obstacle. I found both of mine worked out that if they did it when not asked it was not rewarded and got over it.

As to the weavers, well we have only done 2 trials and failed both times with the weavers so I am looking forward to responses to that. I think in my case it might be the metal base as she has entered and started to weave both times and then stopped. My poles at home dont have a metal base and depending on which 1s we have up at training they may or may not have a base, and then we dont do weaving at the club very often so she has only done poles with the metal base a couple of times. I never had an issue with Piper but 10 years ago all of the clubs down here were still using stick in the ground weavers so they were the same as she had at home and she was also a lot more equipment motivated than Jazz anyway.

[Sayreovi]

Totally agree with the contacts! We went through this recently as she is a massive contact suck! I had to stop rewarding her contacts so much and start rewarding 'basic' obstacles like jumps and tunnels so not one object has such high value. It's working as I managed (with some fancy foot work too) a tunnel/aframe discrimination (yup in Novice!) at her last trial.

Weavers are also a work in progress at trials, at training she is 100% spot on, nails her entries, under distractions, at speed. At trials she is just distracted going into the weavers and appears not to even be looking for them even though she is focused during everything else. I am not worried as it is something that will come in time so I just keep practicing and it will happen soon.

I think maybe just trial her in jumping for awhile rather than both and continue with her training. Having a 'baby' green dog as well sometimes they do stuff at trials that is really random and things they don't do at training. Different environment etc etc

She will get there :)

Can't help with knocking bars, out of 4 trials my girl has only knocked one bar and that was after she came powering out a tunnel and took a corner too hard and misjudged it. It was funny seeing her WTF expression on her face when she heard it come down, poor girl probably didn't realise if you hit them they move! :laugh:

Edited September 15, 2012 by tollersowned

[aussielover]

Have you done jump grids with her to work on her jumping skills? ALso have you looked at when she drops bars and what is happening? Often it is a poorly timed turn cue or command by the handler that causes the bar to come down.

I have done some jumping grids and cavaletti work with her a few months ago, and she was better with bars then no I think about it but I have been away so no training at all last month. I think its probably a good idea to start that up again though, thanks for reminding me :)

As for the running to contacts - Piper and Jazz both went through that phase. Correct contacts are usually rewarded highly and the contact behaviour has normally been practiced and rewarded over and over and over so it becomes a high value obstacle. I found both of mine worked out that if they did it when not asked it was not rewarded and got over it.

That might be easier for BC's to work out! My lab still goes to the spot on our daily walk she once found a chicken wing, every single day! I think she also find the contacts (especially the see saw) in itself "fun" as she is always running over logs and on the edge of things at the park!

As to the weavers, well we have only done 2 trials and failed both times with the weavers so I am looking forward to responses to that. I think in my case it might be the metal base as she has entered and started to weave both times and then stopped. My poles at home dont have a metal base and depending on which 1s we have up at training they may or may not have a base, and then we dont do weaving at the club very often so she has only done poles with the metal base a couple of times. I never had an issue with Piper but 10 years ago all of the clubs down here were still using stick in the ground weavers so they were the same as she had at home and she was also a lot more equipment motivated than Jazz anyway.

Our weavers at home have a plastic base, but she usually gets them at training and its a metal base as well. I think as Tollers said, it may be a matter of focusing too much on the other equipment and excitement of a trial. She is also better entering when on my right hand side, as I think she feels a bit pressured when she is on my left and I am pushing her into the weaves (accidently). Hopefully it will come with time...

I am pleased that she did the weavers in her last 2 runs, even though they were from the "good" side

Glad to hear others with young, novice dogs have had similar problems!

[piper]

Dont you hate it when you type a reply and lose it?

I had just typed out something else I did wrong both trials was that I worried she wouldn't weave and ended up hovering right near by and baby sitting them. I would not do that at training and usually give her quite a bit of space so it is possible my own body pressure contributed to it. So I will be working on trying to give her more space in trials but also practicing with me hovering and hanging really close as there is not always a lot of space in trials.

Have you seen the Succes With 1 Jump program? Some of that might help you to increase the value of jumps, I did some of the exercises with Jazz to make jumps in themselves more rewarding for her.

[sheena]

My girl very rarely drops a bar, so when she does I know that it was most likely my fault. I crowded her, called too late, gave the wrong body message...whatever...it would be my fault. Most of the time, if she pulls out of the weaves it is my fault also, because I should have her proofed against all distractions. I think the problem we all do is reward highly, things like weaves & contacts & forget to reward good tunnel performance or jumping skills.

The new kid on the block, has his debut next weekend...that will be interesting

Edited September 16, 2012 by sheena

[canine fun sports]

I have a few questions-

I have a 2yo lab who jumps 600. I feel like we are doing ok, we've been to a few trials but only qualified recently in SPD and gamblers (at festival of agility) where she had a good, but not great performance.

I feel like we are going well in jumping- we have nearly qualified a few times but had a bar down each time.

She occasionally knocks bars in training as well. I don't think its a height thing because she easily clears 600 when she wants to and my jumps at home are at 650 and she doesn't usually knock them at home. I have noticed that a lot of the more "athletic" breeds like BCs and kelpies also tend to knock more bars as well (some dogs knock several, where as mine only generally knocks one) so I don't think its breed or conformation related

I have tried only rewarding for a clean jump and changing jump distances and angles.

Any other tips for dogs that knock bars every now and then or is it just one of those things?

Also our agility has really regressed. Although she's attentive during jumping trials she seems to go a bit mental when you add in the contact and weaves as well, always wanting to run off onto the contact equipment and recently, also wanting to run into tunnels randomly as well.

The worst was when she was in the middle of weaving and pulled out to run over to the see saw!

We're also having trouble with weaving in trials. She's very inconsistent. Last weekend she didn't weave in her first 2 runs but by arvo she was weaving ok and did them fine for her last 2 runs (which we qualified in). She is fine at training as well.

Is it just a matter of spending more time training for these issues?

I have been away for a month so she's had no training (or interaction with me) for that time, so I am rather pleased with her efforts and getting our first 2 Q's without much ongoing training :)

All in all this sounds like a typical novice dog and everything will work itself with a bit more training and trial experience.

Your timing will improve, so fewer bars will come down.

She will get better at her weaving in different places - many novice dogs have problems recognising the weave poles, because we usually practice them time and time agian in the same position. They just need a little experience to recognise those 12 poles in a row when they see them in a course mixed up with all the other equipment, including jump uprights, the poles around the broard jump, the start and finish gate, the legs on the dog walk - they are all vertical lines.

And of course, we have spent so much time training contacts - dogs (and all living creatures) mere reflect their reinforcement history - just start rewarding the other obstacles more often and the contact suck will disappear.

As an interesting aside - many, many years ago, I remember practicing Ned's weave entries so often, he was the first dog I ever knew to developed a weave suck!

Cheers,

[sheena]

My girl is a weave pole suck & when given the choice of a tunnel or contact obstacle, she will take the contact if I am not careful, but the last couple of trials she has been pretty good, as I have been remembering to reward the tunnel if she gives it to me fast. I do a lot of reinforcing on the jumps too, especially wraps, serpentines & threadles. Another area, which often gets neglected, is reinforcing the start line stay ie: coming back & rewarding for a good wait. I like to come back occasionally & throw multiple tiny treats at her feet & with every one, I say something like, "good wait", "lovely wait" etc....so she knows what it is she is being rewarded for.

[ness]

I think Tassie's Kirra is a Weave Pole suck :laugh:.

[Vickie]

A different perspective/approach on dogs that are tunnel, contact etc sucks.

I was training my pup this morning and she went off course to do the AFrame.

The way I proceeded was to look at the handling cue that she ignored in order to get to the AF and spent some time training and rewarding that cue away from the sequence.

I dont consider that she found the AFrame more rewarding than the jumps I wanted her to take, instead it meant to me that she found the AFrame more rewarding than following the cue I was giving (regardless of which obstacles she was supposed to take).

Once I had spent time reinforcing the cue, we tried the sequence again and were successful.

Hope that makes sense.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Vickie

[DeltaCharlie]

I run 3 different dogs in agility that all have their own obstacle preferences.

- Dash is a weave pole suck, has been known to run right past A-Frames as though she didn't even see them, and doesn't send to tunnels all that well.

- Delta will choose a contact over anything, sends to tunnels beautifully (not always when supposed to), and won't take weaves unless asked to (she will never go out of her way to seek them out).

- Whip LOVES his weave poles and will head for them given half a chance, quite likes A-Frames but couldn't care for a DW unless its right in his face, and sends nicely to a tunnel (but pulls off with the slightest twitch from me). He also prefers more distance than they girls and will go off-course to follow a line away from me where the girls will naturally curl in towards me.

I don't see any of these preferences as being an issue or something that needs fixing. It is my handling that needs fixing if they are taking off-course obstacles. As I walk a course I look for possible off-courses with each individual dog. I am aware of where I need to be spot on in my handling for each dog and where I may need to pull harder with one dog. I can afford to be a little off in my timing with Dash if there is a potential contact off-course, where I need to be on my game with Delta or she will take it, and vice versa if there are weave poles nearby- Delta won't even look at them where Dash and Whip will.

Its not the dog's issue, it is ours :D

[Podengo]

Thought I would give this thread a bump, as one of our summer projects is weaving! We are training 2x2 weaves, now up to 4 poles in a straight line yay! This method is SO fun and SO easy! I can't believe how quickly Elsie picked it up, we aren't even training every day, and our sessions are always less than 5 minutes

Next on the list once I get keys to the club for summer... running contacts...

[Vickie]

Sounds like You & Elsie are doing great . video???How old is she now?

I forgot about this thread. Thanks for bumping it up

[Vickie]

I'm having fun with Fly. She's 18 months now & I hope to trial her sometime next year. She's not quite ready, but not too far away.

We had a bit of a hiccup when she came into season & our training was a little unpredictable, but she seems back to her normal self now .

Here is a clip for a couple of weeks ago. She's really starting to connect with me on course now.