PAX Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Hmmm that weaver entry thing sounds like something I could use. Thanks for that will go and have a play So you use three poles, straight up as per what they would be for normal weaving and c/t as their head is level with the third pole. I am guessing because their is only the three, you then work on sending them from all angles?? Sorry for probably what is a dumb question but am wanting to get it right Correct, work the clock face around the entry, get rid of luring ASAP. make sure you work entries with the dog on the right as much or more than the left, so it makes no difference to dog where you are. Sure Vickie will add to this soon, she's trialling this weekend.:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 You c/t (or mark with word) as they stick their head in the correct entry, but reward when their head is even with the third pole (c/t for correct choice for entry). Yes the poles are straight, and do it from all angles. At first you may need to mark movement in the right direction (and lure the rest) until they get the idea (depends on how good they are at shaping) Okay that makes sense, however if I click as their head was in the gap they would pull out as a click is the end of the exercise. I do however use "good" as a "you are on the right track but keep going" type of command could I use that then treat instead?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) I had a great weekend trialling with the dogs. Ruby polished off her JDX title with a 1st place so pretty chuffed with that! Millie didn't go clear in her ADX and JDX runs (got a clear in Novice Gamblers so I guess we came away with something!) but I was pretty happy with how she ran. We are having issues with getting her to weave as part of a course without stopping and starting. It's starting to become a real habit We only really get to train once a week so I need to make it count, so if anyone has any ideas to help sort it out, I'm all ears (or eyes!) Below is Millie's ADX run from the weekend. She was very, very naughty by not only stopping to sniff when she fluffed the weave entry, but what got me cross was the fact that she blatantly ignored me when I was doing all I could to get her attention back (bar grabbing her by the scruff which is what I really felt like doing! ) Her see-saw was a bit when it's never usually that crazy in training! I am giving crappy signals all over the place especially with weaver entries, help! Go easy on me though, I'm a very novice handler with no real idea of what I'm doing. This is a dog that hasn't been in any proper instructed classes, we just messed around ourselves. Edited November 13, 2011 by RubyStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Hmmm that weaver entry thing sounds like something I could use. Thanks for that will go and have a play So you use three poles, straight up as per what they would be for normal weaving and c/t as their head is level with the third pole. I am guessing because their is only the three, you then work on sending them from all angles?? Sorry for probably what is a dumb question but am wanting to get it right Correct, work the clock face around the entry, get rid of luring ASAP. make sure you work entries with the dog on the right as much or more than the left, so it makes no difference to dog where you are. Sure Vickie will add to this soon, she's trialling this weekend.:D I won't have too many issues with one as he really clicks on quite quickly, but Rommi takes longer - due to my previous training - so I will have to remember to faze it out as quickly as possible. They can and do weave very well but sometimes they fluff the entry so I want to work on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 You c/t (or mark with word) as they stick their head in the correct entry, but reward when their head is even with the third pole (c/t for correct choice for entry). Yes the poles are straight, and do it from all angles. At first you may need to mark movement in the right direction (and lure the rest) until they get the idea (depends on how good they are at shaping) Okay that makes sense, however if I click as their head was in the gap they would pull out as a click is the end of the exercise. I do however use "good" as a "you are on the right track but keep going" type of command could I use that then treat instead?? After the click you can lure the rest of the behaviour at first (around pole 2 and to pole 3) then reward at pole 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 RS - that run of Millie's didn't look too bad to me - but then, although I'm an experienced handler, I still give crappy signals, and get lost . As far as the weave entry goes, remember that the entry to the weaves is usually a collection entry - I think especially when it's a straight on entry. The distance from the previous obstacle looked fairly short, and it looked like she didn't really see them. So, you may have to sacrifice a little time, slow down yourself to give her a little decel cue, and then when she looks as though she's seen the ples, send her in. (Practising straight on entries is good too - often we woerk so hard on sifficult angled entries, that we forget the straight on - which is actually quite hard.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaCharlie Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 The sniffing looked like a stress relief to me. As soon as she missed that weave entry your body slumped and everything about your demeanor told her she had done wrong even though she had actually tried to get into the weaves and unfortunately her momentum had carried her past the entry (don't get me wrong- understanding that she needs to slow down to hit the correct one is partly her responsibility too). I can say that because I do the same thing all the time, except Delta's response is to jump up at me rather than sniff Its really hard to do but maybe trying to keep the same pace and energy level as you turn her around (almost like you were doing a post-turn) and send her back in might make a big difference to her. Its kind of an "oops, try again" thing rather than a "bugger, now the run is screwed, no point trying hard anymore" thing if that makes sense. The dogs can tell when it is no longer a clear run because our body inadvertantly slumps a little, signals are lazier etc. As for the stress sniffing, I know with Charlie when he went through his really stressy period the more I tried to call him back and got annoyed with him the longer he would sniff for. It was like he had to do it until his head was cleared and he was ready to run again, and me nagging at him delayed the head-clearing process and probably made it worse. I would never consider that to be the dog being naughty though... its one of the only ways they have of communicating to us that they are not happy with the current situation and are feeling too much pressure. If only they could talk :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) That wasn't such a bad run, RS From what I could see you keep your arm quite steady for all the obstacles indicating direction and then kind of throw your arm at the weaving poles - probably a bit confusing for the dog so I would keep your arm steady. Purely and simply, from my limited experience, I would suggest that missing the weaving entries is due to a lack of training. You will probably say "Yes I know!" but in that case DON'T go back and get her to do it again as she clearly shut down (sniffing, distracted etc). Just suck it up as a lack of training and keep her forward momentum going through the rest of the course. I only have garden stakes on my lawn to practice weaving and it has made a huge difference - practice 3/6 poles for entries around the clock and make sure she truly understands the concept of independent entries from both sides and every angle. 5 min a day is all you need. In a trial situation you could also decel and give a "ready!" cue to prepare her for the weavers until she gains some confidence. ETA: With the seesaw, perhaps she thought it was the dog walk? Edited November 13, 2011 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) RS - that run of Millie's didn't look too bad to me - but then, although I'm an experienced handler, I still give crappy signals, and get lost . As far as the weave entry goes, remember that the entry to the weaves is usually a collection entry - I think especially when it's a straight on entry. The distance from the previous obstacle looked fairly short, and it looked like she didn't really see them. So, you may have to sacrifice a little time, slow down yourself to give her a little decel cue, and then when she looks as though she's seen the ples, send her in. (Practising straight on entries is good too - often we woerk so hard on sifficult angled entries, that we forget the straight on - which is actually quite hard.) Thanks, Tassie Don't get me wrong, I was really happy with her run apart from the weaves/sniffing. She ran nicely for me and her speed is improving. Yes I think she saw them too late and come to think of it I shouldn't have been so hard on her because she didn't blow them off, she tried to get in them, but then blew ME off for being disappointed We tend to get to weaves and have a pause for me to show her them and then send her but I am over doing that, I want her to weave nicely as part of a course just like she'd have no trouble taking a dog walk for example without me having to stop and reset her to see it. Training will help that, I know I know :D And yep I do need to do more straight on entries. I practiced straight on entries last week coming directly out of a tunnel. Took her a couple of goes to get that! The sniffing looked like a stress relief to me. As soon as she missed that weave entry your body slumped and everything about your demeanor told her she had done wrong even though she had actually tried to get into the weaves and unfortunately her momentum had carried her past the entry (don't get me wrong- understanding that she needs to slow down to hit the correct one is partly her responsibility too). I can say that because I do the same thing all the time, except Delta's response is to jump up at me rather than sniff Its really hard to do but maybe trying to keep the same pace and energy level as you turn her around (almost like you were doing a post-turn) and send her back in might make a big difference to her. Its kind of an "oops, try again" thing rather than a "bugger, now the run is screwed, no point trying hard anymore" thing if that makes sense. The dogs can tell when it is no longer a clear run because our body inadvertantly slumps a little, signals are lazier etc. As for the stress sniffing, I know with Charlie when he went through his really stressy period the more I tried to call him back and got annoyed with him the longer he would sniff for. It was like he had to do it until his head was cleared and he was ready to run again, and me nagging at him delayed the head-clearing process and probably made it worse. I would never consider that to be the dog being naughty though... its one of the only ways they have of communicating to us that they are not happy with the current situation and are feeling too much pressure. If only they could talk :D Thanks for pointing out that she did try to get in them, I can see that better now that someone else pointed it out She just hit it at the 2nd pole not the first. I can see what you mean about my demeanor and it made her stop. I did the same thing in her JDX run. She went past a jump so I basically stopped, walked her back and took her over it. In the meantime, her lovely fast run had now been interrupted because I was being stupid so she lost a bit of motivation I am going to JUST KEEP RUNNING if she misses something, it's my fault if she does! Except for weaver entries or missing a weave, I will take her back for those (even if it means a DQ) but I will do my best to take her back with a smile and spring in my step! :D That wasn't such a bad run, RS From what I could see you keep your arm quite steady for all the obstacles indicating direction and then kind of throw your arm at the weaving poles - probably a bit confusing for the dog so I would keep your arm steady. Purely and simply, from my limited experience, I would suggest that missing the weaving entries is due to a lack of training. You will probably say "Yes I know!" but in that case DON'T go back and get her to do it again as she clearly shut down (sniffing, distracted etc). Just suck it up as a lack of training and keep her forward momentum going through the rest of the course. I only have garden stakes on my lawn to practice weaving and it has made a huge difference - practice 3/6 poles for entries around the clock and make sure she truly understands the concept of independent entries from both sides and every angle. 5 min a day is all you need. In a trial situation you could also decel and give a "ready!" cue to prepare her for the weavers until she gains some confidence. ETA: With the seesaw, perhaps she thought it was the dog walk? Yep she definitely thought it was a dogwalk I'm so glad she is resilient like that. Had that been Ruby flying off, that would be her agility over and done with for the next 12 months! I did also notice my flappy arm into the weaves, that has become a really bad habit of mine, actually it's always been a habit since I started training weaves as it's how I prompted them to go through! I'll try keep it flap-free next time we approach weaves Edited November 14, 2011 by RubyStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I'm a weave flapper too Yeah she isn't collecting herself before entering them is she, SG does mention that in the DVD but I can't remember what she says - Trixie does it on occasion, I don't run flat out at the weavers, I decel to give her a cue to slow down - sometimes it works Hooray for video! I saw the weesaw for the first time on Saturday.... :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I never watched the second DVD, did she cover anything interesting in there? I need to offset them again to help with Ruby's weaving stride. She single steps some and double steps others. Millie is usually a hopper so I'll leave her be! Wish my hard was bigger! Got the full weave set, just not the space to do it! And before anyone says you don't need to practice with the whole set, my yard isn't very wide either so setting them up at angles and with another obstacle gets hard I want one of those "Escape to the Country" backyards, with low cut lush green grass that extends for ages! Oh and can I have a free lawnmower man to go with it, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I saw the weesaw for the first time on Saturday.... :eek: As much of a joke the weesaw is, at least it gives me hope that I can put Ruby in Excellent Agility next year! Saying that though, I would prefer it stay at the regular height and just slowly get her used to it. It really is a joke how small it is!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) Gotta love the weesaw . Edited November 14, 2011 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I never watched the second DVD, did she cover anything interesting in there? I need to offset them again to help with Ruby's weaving stride. She single steps some and double steps others. Millie is usually a hopper so I'll leave her be! Wish my hard was bigger! Got the full weave set, just not the space to do it! And before anyone says you don't need to practice with the whole set, my yard isn't very wide either so setting them up at angles and with another obstacle gets hard I want one of those "Escape to the Country" backyards, with low cut lush green grass that extends for ages! Oh and can I have a free lawnmower man to go with it, please? If you find where to get the free lawnmower man can you let me know so I can get one too. Weekend of agility trialling and no grass attacked in the middle of a warm damp spring - aaaaargh. And I have a big yard, but only a small bit of flat ground. You can do some good weave entry practice with just 4 poles. Is it just me, or do other people find the new weave rules a bit confusing? I still can't get my head around them - cost me a fault at the weekend - Kirra popped out in between 2 and 3 (bigmouth me ), but hadn't passed the 3rd pole - I just kept running, but the judge pointed out later that because she hadn't passed the 3rd pole, I could have put her back in between 2 and 3 and kept going with no penalty - if of course I could have got her in cleanly - a big if. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) Yeah definitely confusing. I thought we would DQ going back to do them again but the judge said to me it was a refusal so I can go back - we had a bit of a chat while in the ring, can't really see it in the video between me getting Millie's attention back As for what you describe, I had a similar incident but she must have passed the next pole because Millie popped on the 2nd last gap and just stood there () so I got her attention back and put her through the remaining weave. We DQ'd or NQ'd or whatever - just know we didn't go clear because of it! Oh and I can never get my head around being able to pop them back in where they popped out, so I tend to just go back to the beginning and start again (I'm not concerned about the difference of a DQ and NQ). The only reason I was able to "fix" it before was cos it was just the last gap we had to correct, any harder than that and I'm stuffed Edited November 14, 2011 by RubyStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I'm not 100% on the weave rules either but usually if we stuff up we do it properly and it is beyond saving RE the weesaw, I know it sounds silly but I am a bit sad that Trixie won't get to trial on a proper seesaw, she loves the seesaw and does it perfectly, a little one just isn't the same... could always join ADAA I suppose but I'd rather not at this point in time, I'm not that hardcore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) Nah, not silly at all. Even owning a see-saw/dogwalk phobic dog, I think it's the most pathetic piece of equipment I've ever laid eyes on and would prefer the standard size stayed Why should dogs like Ruby ruin the fun for the other dogs? I enjoy seeing Millie go over the full-size seesaw (properly!) in training! The little one won't have the same effect. Edited November 14, 2011 by RubyStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 She might get to do one trial on it, though, with 2 trials left for the year No pressure, though!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 My experience has taught me that anything can (and often does) go wrong So I'm just going to say she won't be in Excellent until next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) Final pass jitters are a huge bugger sometimes Edited November 14, 2011 by RubyStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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