pie Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Yeah I can do it when I have instruction and someone telling me where to be, when I don't I find it a lot harder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Yes, sending is good A send to tunnel can be helpful (and a hindrance ), good distance with your pinwheels. Having independent obstacles helps, and good weave entries so you can trust them to get it without having to be right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) I even send Zig now and we both also love the 'Go!' command - it gives him speed, confidence and independence. The things that dog can achieve on an Open course stop me in my tracks sometimes. Which is of course when I stuff up Edited August 22, 2011 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezy Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I even send Zig now and we both also love the 'Go!' command - it gives him speed, confidence and independence. The things that dog can achieve on an Open course stop me in my tracks sometimes. Which is of course when I stuff up I have lost the rest of the course when Chopper has done something i asked , but didn;t think he could do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwag Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Either way, it sounds like you are not ready to compete yet, it will probably take the same amount of time to get ready, whether you decide to slow him down, or learn to handle the speed. Only difference will be the dogs happiness at the end... Right now the only reason we do agility is because Elbie really enjoys it - it's just that watching the trials on the weekend was quite interesting in terms of seeing how different handlers take different approaches to things so I was thinking about how to introduce that into our practice. For instance, some people pull their dogs out of a run after a single fault whereas most others would just let the dog finish even if disqualified. Disqualifications were the norm over a clear round, which was another very interesting thing to observe. At the end of the day, even though it's just for fun - I would like to make sure we do things properly: (1) just because we should; and (2) the option is still there to compete one day if we're ready. LOL we were at the BDOC trial on Saturday and i think we managed to pull 4 our of our 5 dogs running at some point during the day. I will emphasise tho, this is something i wouldnt do to a young dog, new dog, sensitive dog and the list goes on. There are certain criterias our dogs are required to adhere to out on course, if the criteria is broken then the game ends. For my dogs agility is one big game to play with mum, but there are rules . I totally agree with Vickie on many points she has mentioned, you can have both speed and accuracy on your dog you dont need to take one out to have the other. A good place to start is to think about what you would like your dog to do out on an agility course. So what contact behaviour would you like, ie running contacts, 2o2o, 4 on the floor the list goes on. Think about how you would like to start the dog, position IMHO doesnt matter i usually go with what the dog feels comfortable in, again Link goes into a down up to 10-12 metres from the first jump but will go into a sit if the tyre is the 1st obstacle but only 1.5metres away, Sweep goes into a sit as does Dash roughly 2 metres from a jump. Rush when she starts will go into whatever she feels comfortable, distance i will adjust as she starts running. I really dont like to see people slow their dogs down, it comes to teaching them correct obstacle awareness, as well as learning to direct the speed in the right direction. Easier said than done sometimes. I use alot of verbals on my dogs as i am usually a few obstacles behind, but if need be i can get to where i need to by either layering, sending on, or set myself up correctly for any cross i need. I know running Dash in JDM on saturday there were alot of hairy areas where you opened the dogs up but then had a tight sequence to work with, Dash and i have this uncanny understanding of each other, but that is years of experience running her. DQs on saturday were pretty high, the courses were great to run but there were plenty of areas that the handler had to get to to ensure the dogs didnt take any off courses lol, IMHO that is our job to get right the dog is only as good as its handler or how it has been trained. Remember that agility is a game that both dog and handler should enjoy if you do decide to trial down the line then have FUN coz really that is what it is all about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I would cetainly have to improve my handling heaps to run your dogs Tailwag! They are FAST! Kaos doesn't quite have that speed lol. I start Kaos in a stand. Was planning on sit but he prefers a stand (read won't sit for me at the start line ). I give him plenty of room before the first obstacle, better than not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I wonder what the definition of 'fast' is I think I need to get video of us to see how 'fast' my dog actually runs as I'm not sure I get a good picture when I'm beside her! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) "Fast" in agility is more complex than it sounds I think the true definition of fast can be measured in metres/second on a course. Dogs that cover the ground the fastest are not necessarily fastest on course if they take wide turns or inefficient lines between obstacles. Dogs that appear to move very fast will also often be beaten by a slower looking dog who takes less strides between obstacles. Fast Dogs who jump inefficiently or too high etc can also be beaten by slightly slower dogs who almost touch the bar as they jump. Some courses will suit some dogs more than others. The very fastest dogs move fast, take large strides, turn tight, jump efficiently & are well handled. Obviously some dogs will be much faster than others due to breed/breeding. All we can really aim for is to get the best out of the dog we have Edited August 22, 2011 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Good explanation Vickie, it gives us newbies something to think about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwag Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 "Fast" in agility is more complex than it sounds ya reckon complexity it certainly is Remember FAST isnt everything . I have spoken to a few who would love to own a 'FAST' dog, but with fast comes lots of learning to handle fast, lots of thinking on your feet, and lots of training. Every new dog i start is generally quicker than the last, i have made plenty of mistakes along the way, fixed those mistakes to make new ones . Fast is a fast learning curve. But in all honestly i wouldnt have it any other way (that is just me ). I love running my dogs, i love the adrenaline rush they give me, i love the game we play, but the best thing is, i love the looks on their faces when we finish a great run (regardless of Q) that is truly priceless . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I am definitely not aiming to be the fastest out there with my first dog. She's somewhere in the middle so I think she is perfect for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) Thanks for all the tips. If I get too 'duh' or basic with my questions, please let me know and I'll take it off line and chat via PM. With our agility classes, we didn't do much foundation work - basically just got into it on day one and started out on the obstacles which for me is actually good in a way because 'going backwards', I am much better able to understand why certain foundation exercises are relevant/important whereas I might not have that understanding if we'd been taught it in the beginning. As mentioned, even if I don't want to compete, I still want to do things right and know why certain things are done a certain way. A friend is going to lend me a Susan Garrett agility DVD so hopefully that will explain a lot of the more basic stuff to me. The reason I asked about the pausing at the top of the A-frame is that I saw two dogs belonging to a senior agility instructor doing that so assumed it was something that some people elected to do rather than something you didn't want the dog to do. About the 'fast' discussion, I wanted to clarify that "my dog is too fast for me" - I know he's fast, but I doubt he's any faster than any other dog out there. I just have no lungs and have a lot of trouble keeping up with him if I am running alongside him :D The circle/shadow work sounds interesting and something that Elbie would enjoy so I'll try that with him. We already do rear-end awareness training where he does turns with me, left and right pivots but it will be interesting if I can get him to circle around me in both directions. Kavik - thanks for letting me know about the issues re slowing dogs down. It's definitely something for me to ponder. So that Elbie doesn't jump off the scramble or dog walk I have been pausing him and making him 'stand' at the end of the apparatus with two on and two off but I'll have a think about whether that's what I want him to do. As mentioned, I saw some people on Saturday make their dogs go into a drop-stay after the scramble and dog walk so had wondered if that was a good approach. 4) Tunnel entries and off course obstacles - have you worked on serpentines and threadles/pull throughs yet? You can use those handling techniques a lot of the time and use their name and sometimes pays to look at where you do your crosses Yes, we have done serpentines - four jumps side by side. Elbie jumps away, then towards, then away then towards. He seems to know what to do based on whether I punch my arm away from me or pull it towards me. Last training, I stood between the table and a jump and was practising sending Elbie away to me to one of the apparatus by just using its name. I have no idea how I will teach him to go in one end of a tunnel though as opposed to another if both tunnel entrances are facing him - on Saturday a lot of dogs faulted because that's what happened - it wasn't clear which end of the tunnel they were supposed to go through. It's interesting to get the views about 'speed'. As to slowing down a Kelpie, Elbie is so eager to please that while I can see he enjoys speed, I think he's equally happy successfully completing tasks regardless of speed. He will run his obstacles and then peek back as if to check that he did ok. For a faster dog you need to look at the course less from a 'running alongside the dog doing each obstacle' point of view and work out where you think your dog will be at each time and try and keep ahead of them where possible. If you can send them out to things it helps too. You definitely learn a lot from stewarding or watching trials that's for sure. Definitely!!! In class, because the obstacles are mostly (not always) laid out in straight lines, it really has been a case of running alongside the dog with some leadouts and some occasional crosses. It was only when I walked a full course that I started to think: "Urgh, if this was Elbie, I'd have to start from here, then I'd have to try to cut across here to try to beat him there to tell him to turn here not there". It was very illuminating - and scary :D Like I mentioned above, it was also interesting just to see the different ways that people 'started' their dogs - standing/sitting/dropping - close to jump #1, far away from jump #1. I also thought it was funny listening to the way people talked to the dogs: "Just shut up and weave damnit!" made me laugh. Edited August 22, 2011 by koalathebear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) Depending on how you do your serpentines and threadles, you can use the same body language to get them to stay with you and go around the obvious tunnel entry if you need them to go in the other one (in theory ). ETA: a great tip I got from experienced friends is to go behind the jump leading to the tunnel, on the line the dog will be taking, and look at exactly what the dog will see coming over that jump (goes for all obstacle descriminations) - you can see which end of the tunnel will be more obvious to the dog, or which obstacle it is pointing at and which one the dog will see as more likely to be next. Then you can adjust your handling if necessary to help them get the right one. Great for deciding where to place your dog on the start line too. An example: found a Susan Garrett run where she does it twice at :30 and :46 Edited August 22, 2011 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Yes "in theory" is right Kavik Tunnels are a major weak point with my Boy as I'm coming to realise now that there are more inviting off course tunnels appearing. I'm coming to realise how much he doesn't read my body language - something to work on. KTB I like the questions even though I can't answer many, I like reading all the answers that get posted here :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 It's amazing what you can see from the dog's point of view. I really learned to appreciate it in retrieving trials, crouching down to watch the marks and see the cover. In agility training I have been known to do 2o/2o on the dog walk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Just coz you have a tall dog... I have to get down to 300 level! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Just coz you have a tall dog... I have to get down to 300 level! that reminds me - on Saturday I couldn't help wishing everyone had a dog the same height. If I had to summarise my day it consisted of: - walking back and forth between two pegs; and - having leashes handed to/thrown at me; and - constantly running onto the field and lowering and raising heights :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Just coz you have a tall dog... I have to get down to 300 level! that reminds me - on Saturday I couldn't help wishing everyone had a dog the same height. If I had to summarise my day it consisted of: - walking back and forth between two pegs; and - having leashes handed to/thrown at me; and - constantly running onto the field and lowering and raising heights :D Would you prefer being a post in an obedience trial? :rofl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Yeah sometimes I wish I had a different height dog too! It can be frustrating being in a minority group. At training on Thursdays there are only 500 and 600 dogs and I always feel like I am inconveniencing people by asking to put the heights down. Hey at least you got good exercise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 Yeah sometimes I wish I had a different height dog too! It can be frustrating being in a minority group. At training on Thursdays there are only 500 and 600 dogs and I always feel like I am inconveniencing people by asking to put the heights down. You need to move to NSW AP The 300 height group is growing fast! I think they're starting to outnumber the 600's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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