Agility Training Talk Thread

[pie]

Oh that video made me laugh I admire that woman's perseverence!

I can't remember the last time I saw zoomies at a trial here? I know my dog did it once about a year ago, didn't enter another ring, I thought it was a bit funny because usually he is the opposiite of zoomie mode in the trial ring!

We usually have one or two at training on Tuesdays though

I hope Trixie never does it, I don't think she will. She just looks ridiculous when she zooms, she curls her tail down into a hook shape tucks her bum under and goes crazy

[koalathebear]

I attended a trial over at ACTCDC a few weeks ago and saw a gorgeous golden retriever vanish from the field. I think he/she might have gone off to chase some birds, but the dog had a grand time. I loved Teddy because he stayed on the field and clearly intended to continue the course - he just wanted to dance around for a bit first :D

[RubyStar]

OMG Teddy :rofl:

That poodle has some nice speed on it, shame it uses it do make up its own course

[aussielover]

Small brag for Mindy today - she came third in our club course day and first in her height group (500).

It was raining and really muddy which I think put a lot of dogs off (but not my water baby lol).

She was great today, I am getting excited because I think we are getting close to trialling level

OT but she is also coming along really well in obedience as well, it is a good feeling when things start coming togther

Edited August 20, 2011 by aussielover

[koalathebear]

I remember stewarding for agility long before I started training in it. I would keep swaying between should I do agility or not. It looked like fun, but watching the handlers walk the course was so very daunting that I decided for a while that it wasn't for me.

I finally decided to get over myself and at least enrol in some classes. Now it isn't daunting but a heap of fun! We're at Excellent level now (and happy to stay there for a while ) and never thought I'd get there, let alone with Labs. But my two are doing quite well. Just LOVED the JDX course we ran last weekend. Ruby got a clear round (to make it her 3rd JDX quallie) and Millie handled the course just as beautifully but knocked a bar due to a last minute decision to do a front cross. Bugger :p

I definitely recommend walking as many courses as judges will allow you before you compete. It gives you a chance to nut out in your head how you'd handle the course if you were running it

You were right that I couldn't see that many runs in detail - my OH was timekeeping so he saw more. I was walking back and forth between the pegs with a leash but I did see some very good runs. What was great was that the judge was totally fine with me walking the course. The novice course wasn't horrific but the Masters and Excellent courses were pretty hair-raising

[wuffles]

Well done to all the DOLers at the BDOC trial today, I learnt a lot and hope to be joining you as a competitor rather than a steward very soon ;)

[FHRP]

Well done to all the DOLers at the BDOC trial today, I learnt a lot and hope to be joining you as a competitor rather than a steward very soon ;)

Thanks for stewarding today wuffles and koalathebear! I'm glad you learnt a lot wuffles, hopefully not only what not to do ;)

Edited August 20, 2011 by FHRP

[koalathebear]

You're welcome. Having witnessed the mortification of owners when their dogs do zoomies, I will only start trialling when Elbie stops the zooming ... He definitely has the ability and he's very fast - he just gets a bit excited

[koalathebear]

Even though I was only able to watch part of the trial yesterday, it was certainly very thought-provoking and OH and I have been discussing ways to handle Elbie during the course. OH was time-keeper so told me that many of the faults related to:

- dogs missing a jump i.e. running right past it, especially if the jumps weren't aligned

- dogs bypassing the last two weave poles

- dogs going in the wrong end of the tunnel

Elbie is too fast for me so I have to give myself plenty of lead-time which means:

1. I have to make sure his stays are strong. While his stays are normally very good, in agility he does a hover-sit and looks like he wants to break and hurtle over the first jump so I need to keep working on these.

2. I am concerned at points where the next step is not very clear e.g. jump or tunnel/not clear which end of the tunnel to enter and I'm not there in time to tell him what to do. I am trying to teach him the names of all the apparatus so I can verbally tell him where to go but I definitely need some other techniques.

So, for those of you who have very fast dogs who frequently make up their own minds about what to do:

1. Do you start your dog in a sit or a drop? I've always put him in a sit but I'm wondering whether a drop might be better to 'slow him down'. Would it be better to start him back further?

2. I've noticed that some people make their dog pause at the top of the scramble or the dog walk. Is this a good technique to ensure proper contact but also let the handler catch up?

3. I noticed that some handlers make their dogs go into a drop after the dog is off the dog walk or scramble. I'm assuming that this also ensures proper contact because the dog knows it's going to be asked to drop immediately after the apparatus so doesn't hurtle but also lets the handler catch up.

4. Have you taught your dogs to veer left and right so that they know which obstacle to take? If so, how did you do it?

Doing front-crosses is very hard for me because it's very rare that after the first lead-out that I can get ahead of my dog, even when he's in the tunnel. The one time I managed to get ahead of me, I ended up almost tripping over him because he caught up.

I know the emphasis is on speed and during class when I've told Elbie 'slow' or 'wait', I've frequently been told not to do this because I shouldn't try to slow him down - but if your dog is already quite fast, do you see a problem with slowing it down during the course to make sure the handler has time to give the right guidance?

Thanks in advance Apologies in advance if these are dumb questions - I'm still in learning phase, we haven't even learned see-saw yet let alone done a full course.

Edited August 21, 2011 by koalathebear

[Vickie]

I would never try to slow your dog down KTB.

There are many handling options if your dog is faster than you.

Lead outs obviously help, I don't think the position you leave them in matters.

Dogs have amazing peripheral vision. Even without a verbal command they can read a turn when you are behind them.

Some distance handling, both from behind & laterally will always be needed fir a dog faster than it's handler.

Most handlers can catch even the fastest dogs up in the weavers

2o2o + 4 on the floor or contacts also give you a chance to catch up if needed. I don't know anyone who wants their dog to stop at the top of the AF, most are trying to train that out.

Many people have verbal turn commands, but dogs will generally respond to physical cues over verbal ones.

People with fast dogs also use layering as a tool, where there may be obstacles in between the handlers path & the obstacles the dog is performing.

Obviously the aim is for the dog not to be making up their own mind on course, but it does happen with lots of dogs of all speeds, not just the fast ones.

Edited August 21, 2011 by Vickie

[koalathebear]

Thanks for that. I guess I'm still not clear in my mind what is most important - speed or doing each apparatus correctly. I know that it needs to be both to be able to qualify but I guess part of me thought that it would be good to make sure to get a clear round in the first instance even if the dog is out of time and then after that teach the dog to speed up - if that makes sense.

[J...]

So, for those of you who have very fast dogs who frequently make up their own minds about what to do:

1. Do you start your dog in a sit or a drop? I've always put him in a sit but I'm wondering whether a drop might be better to 'slow him down'. Would it be better to start him back further?

2. I've noticed that some people make their dog pause at the top of the scramble or the dog walk. Is this a good technique to ensure proper contact but also let the handler catch up?

3. I noticed that some handlers make their dogs go into a drop after the dog is off the dog walk or scramble. I'm assuming that this also ensures proper contact because the dog knows it's going to be asked to drop immediately after the apparatus so doesn't hurtle but also lets the handler catch up.

4. Have you taught your dogs to veer left and right so that they know which obstacle to take? If so, how did you do it?

Doing front-crosses is very hard for me because it's very rare that after the first lead-out that I can get ahead of my dog, even when he's in the tunnel. The one time I managed to get ahead of me, I ended up almost tripping over him because he caught up.

I know the emphasis is on speed and during class when I've told Elbie 'slow' or 'wait', I've frequently been told not to do this because I shouldn't try to slow him down - but if your dog is already quite fast, do you see a problem with slowing it down during the course to make sure the handler has time to give the right guidance?

Thanks in advance Apologies in advance if these are dumb questions - I'm still in learning phase, we haven't even learned see-saw yet let alone done a full course.

From someone who runs a fast dog my advice is - don't slow your dog down, learn to handle him at speed. Yes you'll stuff up a lot but you'll learn a lot and IMHO you'll be a much better handler at the end of it all.

I learnt to handle Darcy from behind a lot in the early days because no-one ever showed me how to get in front of her. It wasn't until I started training with a different agility club that they showed me how to get lateral distance and actually manage to do front crosses. Amazing how easy it is when someone shows you how.

In regards to your questions

1. Darcy starts in a stand, Zee in a sit.

2. No - if I ever need to catch up on a contact with Darcy, too bad so sad. I need to find a way of handling it that I don't need to catch up, and if I can't do that then there's some gaps in my training. Zee has a stopped 2o2o contact that will allow me to get to where I need to be but I don't use it.

3. As above.

4. Both my dogs have learnt to read my body language by doing heaps of circle work, and they should read my shoulders regardless of whether I'm in front behind or otherwise. I can barely tell my right from my left in an obedience ring at walking pace, let alone at full speed in an agility ring. Some do teach their dogs a verbal left and right but I don't know of anyone in Victoria who is using them successfully in a trial situation.

[Kavik]

KTB my suggestions are:

1) Circle work, shadow handling so he learns to follow your body

2) Work on rear crosses (I need lots of work on those )

3) With contacts, most people who teach a stopped contact (including me) have more problems getting their dog to go ahead of them and finish the obstacle independently at speed to end up in the correct desired position (Kaos slows down especially on dogwalk). I would never try to slow the dog deliberatey

4) Tunnel entries and off course obstacles - have you worked on serpentines and threadles/pull throughs yet? You can use those handling techniques a lot of the time and use their name and sometimes pays to look at where you do your crosses

[Vickie]

Thanks for that. I guess I'm still not clear in my mind what is most important - speed or doing each apparatus correctly. I know that it needs to be both to be able to qualify but I guess part of me thought that it would be good to make sure to get a clear round in the first instance even if the dog is out of time and then after that teach the dog to speed up - if that makes sense.

In my mind what is most important is the dog's enjoyment. Personally, I think the faster they are going, the more they are enjoying themselves.

It is possible to have speed AND control. If you take the speed out, it will be very hard to put back in and there are plenty of teams running around to prove this fact. I would rather my dog do 3 obstacles at speed than 20 without it. I would rather DQ on a fast & fun run than qualify on a messy or slow run.

Either way, it sounds like you are not ready to compete yet, it will probably take the same amount of time to get ready, whether you decide to slow him down, or learn to handle the speed. Only difference will be the dogs happiness at the end...

[koalathebear]

Either way, it sounds like you are not ready to compete yet, it will probably take the same amount of time to get ready, whether you decide to slow him down, or learn to handle the speed. Only difference will be the dogs happiness at the end...

Sorry for the confusion, I am definitely not intending to compete yet if at all. I am definitely only a newbie to this. Elbie only learned how to properly weave two weeks ago and we only practise agility once a week during class

Right now the only reason we do agility is because Elbie really enjoys it - it's just that watching the trials on the weekend was quite interesting in terms of seeing how different handlers take different approaches to things so I was thinking about how to introduce that into our practice. For instance, some people pull their dogs out of a run after a single fault whereas most others would just let the dog finish even if disqualified. Disqualifications were the norm over a clear round, which was another very interesting thing to observe.

At the end of the day, even though it's just for fun - I would like to make sure we do things properly: (1) just because we should; and (2) the option is still there to compete one day if we're ready.

[Kavik]

And regardless of what you do, there will be times when they run around a jump, take an off course obstacle, go in the wrong end of the tunnel. They place the challenges there for a reason ;) and you will not be the only one to do it!

And if you are slowing down a Kelpie so much that you are over time - they are not going to have fun.

I went into training a stopped contact for the first time with Kaos with the initial goal of I want him to stop in this position so that he won't miss the contact and I can direct him where to go afterwards, so went into it with the mindset of it being a control behaviour. What I have learnt over time is that this is the wrong way to approach thinking about it. If I want fast, accurate and independent contacts I have to think of it as a great place for the dog to be, for them to want to get there as fast as possible, to drive into that position, no matter where I am.

[Agility Dogs]

If I want fast, accurate and independent contacts I have to think of it as a great place for the dog to be, for them to want to get there as fast as possible, to drive into that position, no matter where I am.

My older girl Xena is really quick as well and I started wit hthe same mindset as Kavik - I've since abandoned that plan and she now runs contacts (as opposed to being trained in running contacts). My pup otoh has been trained to DRIVE into contact position and for her it is the coolest place in the world. I will allow her to early release once she starts trialling, but for the minute she just gets MEGA rewards for being there.

On course like others have said it is about making sure your dogs have a really solid understanding of handing cues. If I can't get to something (rare - lucky with long legs) I'll try and make sure we abort and go another way to avoid taking the fun out of it for the dogs.

Circle work and surprisingly one jump excercises as well as jump grids are the areas I'd be looking.

Hope that helps.

[Chezy]

wuffles sent this video to me, she knows how much I angst over Elbie's zoomies on the agility field. Gosh Teddy is such a sweetheart, though. He seems so gleeful in his exuberance ... and he always comes back! He's also talented and

OMD I love watching zoomies and the music that has been put the the clip makes it even more fun to watch

You are worried about zoomies? You should see the Greyhound zoomies that happen to a friend of mine sometimes WOW amazing speed when she wants to!

love to watch Bethany in zoomies , she doesn't do it as much now

all u see is joy on their faces when they do zoomies

[pie]

And regardless of what you do, there will be times when they run around a jump, take an off course obstacle, go in the wrong end of the tunnel. They place the challenges there for a reason ;) and you will not be the only one to do it!

Agree!

We had a trial the other week, there was only one qualifier in Open Jumping

Also Jess' suggestion of lateral distance - since I have cottoned on to this it has made a lot of difference with Trixie.

For a faster dog you need to look at the course less from a 'running alongside the dog doing each obstacle' point of view and work out where you think your dog will be at each time and try and keep ahead of them where possible. If you can send them out to things it helps too.

You definitely learn a lot from stewarding or watching trials that's for sure.

[RubyStar]

For a faster dog you need to look at the course less from a 'running alongside the dog doing each obstacle' point of view and work out where you think your dog will be at each time and try and keep ahead of them where possible. If you can send them out to things it helps too.

I want to learn more of this to handle Millie. But I think the only way it's going to happen is if I go and get private lessons. I need help!!