Agility Training Talk Thread

[aussielover]

Great weaving RS!!! Millie is so cute!

What is the best way to teach weaving?

We go to 2 clubs and they use different methods- is that a problem?

One uses the poles placed at an angle so the dogs run thru a channel- eventually the poles will be moved more upright but we aren't at that level yet.

The other uses flaps on the side of the weaves to guide the dogs thru.

Personally i like the second method better, as i can see my dog working out that she actually has to weave around the poles, where as with the first method she just runs straight thru without really thinking.

I've also heard the 2x2 method is good and other people have told me that luring the dogs thru the weaves works well (their dogs are pretty good weavers).

[koalathebear]

Does anyone else's dog do dog zoomies during agility? Usually, Elbie will do one bolt during a training session but will then return to his spot and concentrate.

Last night, we were training while it was cold, windy and a bit rainy - Elbie was a wild thing. He did constant zoomies. He'd do his jumps then zoom about the field like a crazy creature, then come back do whatever he was supposed to and then run around like crazy. Because of the foul weather, only 3 other people showed up last night so it wasn't too bad but I was very embarrassed when Elbie was jumping along side other people's dogs :p What is the best way to 'reprimand' this sort of behaviour? Would you just put him back on the lead or would you tie him up at the fence? In the end, training was cancelled after only about 15 or 20 minutes due to the rain and he had settled down by then but was wondering what people suggest to cure the zoomies :p When he returns after each 'zoomie bolt', he is super-focussed and attentive but I'd like to stop him bolting at all! Thanks in advance.

Edited July 6, 2011 by koalathebear

[The Spotted Devil]

My dogs don't do zoomies but when I watch those that do, quite often the handler either isn't fast/smooth/clear enough and/or disengages momentarily with the dog. Dog becomes frustrated/excited and deals with it by zoomies. The first thing I would do is video training sessions and see if you can find the trigger - could be the smallest thing. Or I could be completely wrong

[aussielover]

Maybe keep him on lead in between exercises? I wouldn't reprimand him for using the equipment.

I do find it a bit annoying when people lose control of their dogs at training (but bound to happen I suppose) because one time another dog came flying into my dog just as she was about to go into the tunnel, knocking her to the ground. Ever since, tunnels have been a struggle- once shes in, shes fine, but she doesn't seem keen on going into tunnels, which she used to love

I always make sure I have her reward ready at the end of an exercise so I can distract her from running off. We either play a game in between exercises or I'll put her on lead.

[wuffles]

Great weaving RS!!! Millie is so cute!

What is the best way to teach weaving?

We go to 2 clubs and they use different methods- is that a problem?

One uses the poles placed at an angle so the dogs run thru a channel- eventually the poles will be moved more upright but we aren't at that level yet.

The other uses flaps on the side of the weaves to guide the dogs thru.

Personally i like the second method better, as i can see my dog working out that she actually has to weave around the poles, where as with the first method she just runs straight thru without really thinking.

I've also heard the 2x2 method is good and other people have told me that luring the dogs thru the weaves works well (their dogs are pretty good weavers).

Most people would probably recommend 2x2 but realistically I think that any method is fine.

We use a channel and when you start moving the poles closer together the dog actually does have to do the weaving motion rather than just running through.

[RubyStar]

Great weaving RS!!! Millie is so cute!

What is the best way to teach weaving?

We go to 2 clubs and they use different methods- is that a problem?

One uses the poles placed at an angle so the dogs run thru a channel- eventually the poles will be moved more upright but we aren't at that level yet.

The other uses flaps on the side of the weaves to guide the dogs thru.

Personally i like the second method better, as i can see my dog working out that she actually has to weave around the poles, where as with the first method she just runs straight thru without really thinking.

I've also heard the 2x2 method is good and other people have told me that luring the dogs thru the weaves works well (their dogs are pretty good weavers).

I think that whatever method you choose, you're best to go away and train it at home. Once or twice a week at training, sharing the equipment with others, might take you an age to teach weaving! I liked the 2x2 method which is how I taught my girls, but I haven't taught weaves another way so I can't compare. I will be teaching mum and dad's mini schnauzer to weave once it's old enough and I will be using the 2x2 method. Gonna be interesting for me training a small dog! I'm quite excited, actually!

Does anyone else's dog do dog zoomies during agility?

Ruby used to as a pup. She'd do one jump, two if I was lucky, and then she was off. My cure to fix the problem was pull out of agility, continue with the obedience, and return when she capable of not running off Not ideal for those who want to work through the problem while at agility, but it worked for me and I was able to go back confident knowing that she wasn't going to run off. It left me in tears many times!

[koalathebear]

Thanks. I'll see how he goes next week when the weather isn't crazy. He's fine during obedience (on the same field) so it may be that I work on recalls on a long lead to the side during agility for the next few weeks (so I'm working with him in the place he finds distracting) until he stops zooming - that way he doesn't disturb other dogs.

Also, I do keep him on lead between exercises and he's usually quite focussed after the initial 15 minutes. Last night he was just bonkers though.

Edited July 7, 2011 by koalathebear

[wuffles]

KTB, perhaps some off leash (or long line) training in different environments might help? He may have an association that being off leash at dog club means it's time for playing/socialising?

You've probably also seen me shovelling treats into Ava to keep her focus on me During agility I go through a full container of treats... I'd say about 50% of them are for doing the obstacles and the other 50% are just for keeping her attention on me. She will pay attention without them, but I guess it is a way I get her to ignore other dogs quite effectively.

I have to catch her attention and reward her BEFORE she gets to a point where she loses it (eg. if Elbie comes to visit she desperately wants to go play with him, but I try get a focus command and treat in BEFORE he arrives or at least before she gets the manic "must play with Elbie" look in her eyes)! I still do a lot of work at the local oval off leash with kids kicking balls, flocks of birds, other dogs chasing balls, kites and all kinds of weird and wonderful stuff that pops up in public places... the second she takes her eyes off a big distraction she gets rewarded (reward depends on the size of the distraction - ignoring a person walking on the other side of the field might just get a smile and "good girl" whereas ignoring a flock of galahs that have landed 5m away may get a whole container of treats).

Bit of a ramble, but I hope it makes sense!

[aussielover]

Thanks. I'll see how he goes next week when the weather isn't crazy. He's fine during obedience (on the same field) so it may be that I work on recalls on a long lead to the side during agility for the next few weeks (so I'm working with him in the place he finds distracting) until he stops zooming - that way he doesn't disturb other dogs.

Also, I do keep him on lead between exercises and he's usually quite focussed after the initial 15 minutes. Last night he was just bonkers though.

Oh sorry, misunderstood you, thought he was running off after the exercises.

Yeah I guess the best thing would be to work on recall and focus.

At least he doesn't run over and try to play with the other dogs (or attack them).

Do you run him before class? I try to make sure i've at least given Mindy a 20 min run before the class starts so she is not too hyper.

[ish]

I'm soon to start agility lessons and can't wait! Can anyone recommend some books for an interested beginner to start learning the language etc? I'll be starting with an older dog but hope to be able to apply what I learn to my other dogs too

[koalathebear]

Running before class wouldn't work for me, that doesn't settle Elbie. He takes some time to snap into 'focus mode', when he does he's fine and almost freakishly focused but until then he's bonkers and hyperactive. We can go to obedience a little early on Sundays to do the focus time before class but the problem for me is that agility is 6.15 pm. Even leaving work early on Wednesdays as I do, by the time I dash home to get Elbie, I usually get to class late so I'm setting up equipment and then there's a brief time for warming up the dogs, but it's not really enough time to snap him into focus mode. And unfortunately he does try to play with other dogs, as wuffles can attest. He usually does 1-2 bolts per class, during which he playbows Ava on a weekly basis :p He does a jump, than a happy zoomie i.e. he is too fast for me to catch him and pop his leash back on. Oddly enough he is ok when other dogs come and jump on him, there's a Golden Retriever that will usually bolt as well and jumps all over him and he will stay on the spot - it's his own zoomies that are the problem.

wuffles - will try your suggestion. Are you doing all your oval training on the weekends now? It's too dark in the morning - can't see a thing at the oval so can't really do anything except some basic heel work when I take them on their walk. By the time I get home, it's already pitch black so I can't take him to the oval then. I'll probably try the distraction work at the oval with a long leash, a rowdy soccer team nearby and pieces of raw beef to see how we go.

[poodlefan]

Does anyone else's dog do dog zoomies during agility?

Howard went through this.

First question: What do YOU do when Elbie does it?

I managed to stop the zoomies by doing a range of things:

1. Taking Howie away from the class regularly during training and giving him a toy toss and retrieve - this helped him by allowing him to zoom away from other handlers and gave him a stress outlet. This has also worked for a few others I know.

2. Rather than standing or calling him (and failing to get his attention), I would bolt away (I was always the centre of Howie's zoomie circle) stopping Howie from using me as part of the game.

Usually its just an outlet for a lot of excitement. The downside it that its a pain in the arse for other handlers. The trick is to give them enough chance to blow off steam when you allow it, rather than when they choose to.

I also made sure I had really high value toys with me.. Howie loves his toys and will usually recall to them very well. When not training he is onlead immediately.

Edited July 7, 2011 by poodlefan

[wuffles]

wuffles - will try your suggestion. Are you doing all your oval training on the weekends now? It's too dark in the morning - can't see a thing at the oval so can't really do anything except some basic heel work when I take them on their walk. By the time I get home, it's already pitch black so I can't take him to the oval then. I'll probably try the distraction work at the oval with a long leash, a rowdy soccer team nearby and pieces of raw beef to see how we go.

Mostly on weekends yep... sometimes I leave work early so I can get some time in from 4:30 'til 5. OH walked Satch this morning so I did oval training - the light started appearing from about 6:30 so I had half an hour to train :D Not that there are any distractions in the freezing cold and dark, so weekends are better for that.

Sometimes I do active training on the oval so I expect complete focus, sometimes I just stroll around the perimeter so I expect her to be within a reasonable radius and checking in regularly, sometimes I go sit on the cricket pitch where she should lie beside me calmly. I reward highly when she chooses to pay attention to me of her own accord in addition to when I ask her to.

[koalathebear]

I can tell it's excitement. Last night, Elbie did two jumps in a row, correctly jumped over the jump that was at a 90 degree angle to the other jumps, then turned right to clear the broad jump - then he bolted and did a victory lap before coming back to me. Then on another activity, he waited, then when released he ran ahead of me as instructed and cleared the 3 jumps in a row, returned to me - then he decided to celebrate by doing a victory lap. My dog is not the only dog who bolts and all of the other handlers are really, really nice about it but I know how annoying it must be for others. Elbie is doing really well at agility except for the bolting

Thanks PF. Those are all good suggestions and we have a separate little field at BDOC that I can use during class to do the additional tossing and retrieving. You're right that running away from Elbie will probably work too because he will follow if his humans try to go somewhere. He has a couple of toys that he just loves but I can only use them before class because I just can't seem to carry everything on my person - treat bag, leash and two toys ... I need more hands!

[poodlefan]

Thanks PF. Those are all good suggestions and we have a separate little field at BDOC that I can use during class to do the additional tossing and retrieving. You're right that running away from Elbie will probably work too because he will follow if his humans try to go somewhere. He has a couple of toys that he just loves but I can only use them before class because I just can't seem to carry everything on my person - treat bag, leash and two toys ... I need more hands!

You need a "training bag" which you can swap things out of and replenish treats from. That said, I usually look like an oversize toddler at training with a big plush toy on me somewhere.

If he's done something really good, grab his best toy and rush off to the separate area for a game. He will learn to look to you to initiate that rather than doing that himself.

Bolting away does work for people focussed dogs. Count your blessings he's one of those.

[pie]

RosieFT's SFT started doing zoomies at training, she would do a few obstacles and then start doing zoomie laps. She started picking up and putting the dog away after she zoomed (if you zoom, you get put away and don't have any more fun), then bringing her out after a few minutes and trying the exercise again, it made a huge improvement and now she rarely does it. I've also used this tactic on my dog and it worked for her, can't remember the last time she ran off.

ETA I know some will say you shouldn't use a crate as a punishment though

Edited July 7, 2011 by amypie

[pie]

With regards to weaving - I used the channel method on my first dog, he weaves quite well and fast now (when he's in the mood ), but it was a long time coming. My younger dog I used 2x2 but honestly not sure if I'd use it again as she seems so focussed on getting it right that she is painfully slow, but that's probably more to do with my criteria than the method.

[Kavik]

What I would do to fix zoomies:

Work on obstacle focus - one jump exercises etc.

Don't try to do a long sequence - only a couple of obstacles and reward when he is still focussed and before he gets it into his head to do zoomies. I had to do this with Kaos who started doing runners at trials.

Do you have some exercises to get his attention before a run? I use circle work, spins, hand touches

[Vickie]

I can tell it's excitement. Last night, Elbie did two jumps in a row, correctly jumped over the jump that was at a 90 degree angle to the other jumps, then turned right to clear the broad jump - then he bolted and did a victory lap before coming back to me. Then on another activity, he waited, then when released he ran ahead of me as instructed and cleared the 3 jumps in a row, returned to me - then he decided to celebrate by doing a victory lap. My dog is not the only dog who bolts and all of the other handlers are really, really nice about it but I know how annoying it must be for others. Elbie is doing really well at agility except for the bolting

I would say in general, the 2 main reasons for dogs doing zoomies in agility relate to:

reward system issues

connection/communication issues

A couple of things to think about...

typically in agility, we don't spend anywhere near the time we need to building a reward system. If we provide our dogs with the highest value reward we can, agility becomes solely about a chance to earn that reward. If we don't provide it, we get one of three things...lack of effort, distraction/zoomies or a case where the obstacles themselves become the reward.

I think communication/ staying in touch with our dogs is not focussed on enough either. Too often we ask the dog to do something but are not clear about what comes next. This leads to either dogs slowing down & asking questions or dogs who choose to make their own minds up about what will come next.

[Vickie]

Oops double post

Edited July 7, 2011 by Vickie