Agility Training Talk Thread

[skip]

NFC runs are so useful!! NSW doesn't have them in ANKC. However I did 2 trials on the weekend and my little dog had 4 runs. Or was down for 4 runs

She has some issue at the moment and is refusing to run with me. Not too weird as she is very timid and I put it down to the fact the runs are getting harder and she is over it. But in relation to NFC - the judegs I spoke to before I put her up bent over backwards to help. I didn't want to take too much time but the judges were so good about letting her go on course and trying some different things. They were all very helpful and 2 said that they had the same thing happen. I spoke to the judges later to thank them. One said his small dog went on strike for 3 months before coming good again.

I was told not all judges can do this but it was nice to see people caring about a dog and trying to help so the dog is happy.

And in terms of this issue - I put it down to my fault and a training thing. A little niggling thought today was what about her being sore. She is 7 and weighs just under 4 kg. And then I went for a walk this arvo. I had some treats left over from the weekend and had the dogs doing stuff during the walk to get them. We go past a tree trunk that in the past I send them to go thru like a tyre. She normally loves it but today she bolted to the tree but then stopped and didn't go thru. I was surprised and asked again but she was very hesitant to jump thru the tree. Now I am trying to remember how she has been lately.

Do you just give your dog a break if you think it could be sore? Do you go to the vet and can a good vet see if the dog is sore? Do you go to the vet and ask for a referral to someone else who can help? Curious what others do?

[J...]

it could be that she is not judging her spacing well between collection and/or extension. This is often the case for dogs who pull bars on speed sections.

have you tried this grid? Try setting a straight line of 5 jumps. The spacing between 1st & 2nd is 6ft, 2nd & 3rd is 7ft etc.

When jumping this her striding between jumps should look balanced. Dogs who are not judging spacing between collection & extension will typically struggle & look very unbalanced. Do it both ways straight & then put a curve in it. It's a great grid and very challenging for many dogs in the beginning.

Thanks for the response Vickie - I have done this exercise in the past, but not in this specific format recently and not bent. I will add it to my training list for the week, will be interested to see how she goes. Will get the video camera out for this one.

the other exercise I really like is just one jump at all different angles & distance. Reward is given every time they don't touch the bar. Reward is not given if they touch it, even if the don't actually knock it. Most dogs don't actually know that they are supposed to keep the bar up. This exercise makes it very clear to them.

I will do this as well - at least I can do this one in the backyard

I'm not entirely convinced that leaving a bar up is quite so black and white though. Darce is pretty good at training - I will admit I stop these days when she drops a bar in training, say nothing, reset the bar and get her to do it again and reward when she completes it with bars up. Not something I'm that comfy with but she is very obstacle focussed and it seems to be working without knocking her drive and confidence. How do you get that "leave the bars up" message to flow over into the high energy environment of a trial?

[J...]

NFC is a great idea - wish we had it here but have no hope given I've heard our committee is so against it. When I was retraining Darcy's contacts I worded up a few judges who I knew would turn a blind eye. You just need to pick your judges, the Vic judges are having a bit of a crackdown on training in the ring at the moment, especially in Novice.

Do you just give your dog a break if you think it could be sore? Do you go to the vet and can a good vet see if the dog is sore? Do you go to the vet and ask for a referral to someone else who can help? Curious what others do?

I would rest her until you find a good sports vet or the like - ask around your club for some recommendations or even on here if you're happy to say whereabouts you are.

I don't bother with my standard vet for suspected soreness, chances are they wouldn't pick it up, and even if they did would probably recommend rest and that's it. The girls' sports vet will be much more proactive at finding and helping fix the issue.

[LilBailey]

Jess.

If the bar dropping is more when she stretches out and runs faster it may be that she doesn't quite know how to collect herself and put in a 1/2 stride to take the jump. I looked into dropping bars/running flat as having flyball dogs they are encouraged to run flat and fast when you get to agility this doesn't work so well. The book Jumping from A-Z is great and talks about exersizes to help. Learing about not touching the bar sounds like a good one too.

Also where is the sports vet you take your girls to? I have never been overly impressed with any of the vets up here.

[J...]

Jess.

If the bar dropping is more when she stretches out and runs faster it may be that she doesn't quite know how to collect herself and put in a 1/2 stride to take the jump. I looked into dropping bars/running flat as having flyball dogs they are encouraged to run flat and fast when you get to agility this doesn't work so well. The book Jumping from A-Z is great and talks about exersizes to help. Learing about not touching the bar sounds like a good one too.

Also where is the sports vet you take your girls to? I have never been overly impressed with any of the vets up here.

I've heard the jumping from A-Z is good, will look into it. Of course will need to make the most of US postage - looks like the credit card is about to get another hiding. ;)

The more I think about it, the more I need to be shot for not roping people into taping the occasional run for me; I suspect I would know what was going on if I did. A friend said to me a few weeks ago - you don't see what we see given you're running her, interestingly she was commenting on Darcy's ability to throw in those small extra strides and the resulting tight lines she runs. Maybe she just pushes it a bit too hard sometimes, if that makes sense.

I have no idea about local vets as I don't live up there - I'm over an hour away. The vet I use is Dr Kim Lim who works out of Highton Vet Clinic in Geelong. She does just about everything and she's great with the dogs, very willing to listen and thinks outside the square.

[skip]

Ta Jess

I will be at training tomorrow unless the weather is too wild. Will ask for help health wise. I will give her a bit of a break anyway. I'll work on her running with me. At trials coming up I won't run her, just work round the ring.. On Sunday we got to use a jump or two after the trial and that was really good. Maybe for a while she can just do one jump and reward to see how she goes.

The thing is this dog either goes all out, flat chat ( for a chi x that is ) or won't move. There are no slow runs / half-hearted runs for her. Recently she froze and wouldn't go over jump one until I knelt down after jump 3. Then she took off and got her 4th JDX pass. I was going to stop running her ages ago as she was so timid but then we had some good coaching and she was going great. Only weaving was a big hurdle for her in the ring - outside the ring is fine, just in the run.

I never (obviously ) got her as an agility dog and any run she 's given me has been a gift. I think I get the biggest kick when she does run.

Any advice appreciated?

[Vickie]

I'm not entirely convinced that leaving a bar up is quite so black and white though. Darce is pretty good at training - I will admit I stop these days when she drops a bar in training, say nothing, reset the bar and get her to do it again and reward when she completes it with bars up. Not something I'm that comfy with but she is very obstacle focussed and it seems to be working without knocking her drive and confidence. How do you get that "leave the bars up" message to flow over into the high energy environment of a trial?

no, you're right, it isn't black and white. I think it's possible to make an exercise b&w, and possible that this exercise can impact what happens in the ring, but I certainly haven't found a guaranteed magic cure for bar knocking. I know that using these exercises has taken Shine from a bar or 2 most runs, to a bar every couple of trials. We're not there yet, but we're closer.

[Vickie]

Just curious, how much of your agility training involves sequencing more than 2 obstacles?

I would say that currently only about 40% of the training I am doing for agility actually uses more than 2 obstacles. When I look back at how I started training years ago, once obstacles were learnt, about 90% of training for agility was on sequences.

Now I kind of feel that while obstacle performance & handling always need improvement, most of our fine tuning is actually happening off the course.

Thoughts?

[Tassie]

Just curious, how much of your agility training involves sequencing more than 2 obstacles?

I would say that currently only about 40% of the training I am doing for agility actually uses more than 2 obstacles. When I look back at how I started training years ago, once obstacles were learnt, about 90% of training for agility was on sequences.

Now I kind of feel that while obstacle performance & handling always need improvement, most of our fine tuning is actually happening off the course.

Thoughts?

Interesting train of thought Vickie. What sorts of fine tuning are you doing? (Especially interested since without gear of my own except weaves and a few jumps, and rarely getting to club training - only opporuntiy to do longer sequence - I need some inspiration :D ) (My dogs have too many commitments LOL

[caffy]

Just curious, how much of your agility training involves sequencing more than 2 obstacles?

I would say that currently only about 40% of the training I am doing for agility actually uses more than 2 obstacles. When I look back at how I started training years ago, once obstacles were learnt, about 90% of training for agility was on sequences.

Now I kind of feel that while obstacle performance & handling always need improvement, most of our fine tuning is actually happening off the course.

Thoughts?

Interesting question.

I have found I need to do more obstacles than I used to do in simple sequencing. My boy requires fast handling which means giving him info before the next obstacle without any hesitation...something I struggle with. The longer the sequence/course, the more behind I get in my location and mental preparedness for the next obstacle.

Maybe it is more of improving the memory skills more than anything ;)

[J...]

I know that using these exercises has taken Shine from a bar or 2 most runs, to a bar every couple of trials. We're not there yet, but we're closer.

That's a big improvement

To answer your question on 2 jumps vs sequences, I do probably half and half.

Mini sequences I grab from sections of courses we've ran and either not managed that part at all or ran it but not as clean as I'd like. While it's up i then do as many variations as I can with that format.

Like caffy I do like to put bigger sequences together to work on the running from behind stuff that I can't mimic as well on mini sequences. I also find these are more suited to my novice dog given the openness and flowing nature of our novice courses. Now she's in Jdx I will take her back to mini sequences.

I only run courses if I go to training or trial. It was one of a few reasons I stopped club training a year or so ago - always running courses but not really having the time to work on the skills needed to run those courses.

[Agility Dogs]

Just curious, how much of your agility training involves sequencing more than 2 obstacles?

I would say that currently only about 40% of the training I am doing for agility actually uses more than 2 obstacles. When I look back at how I started training years ago, once obstacles were learnt, about 90% of training for agility was on sequences.

Now I kind of feel that while obstacle performance & handling always need improvement, most of our fine tuning is actually happening off the course.

Thoughts?

Totally agree. Very little of our training is on more than 2 or 3 obstacles - most of it is obstacleless. (That's all I can fit in the back yard.)

Even when we go to club though I rarely do full courses.

When Linda Orton Hill was last out she also mentioned that her dogs rarely see equipment and their focus is on foundations that translate to equipment.

[Kavik]

I had my first night back at agility training since I had my baby 7 weeks ao. It was great to be back, I had so much fun! Luckily some club members were willing to help me as bubs was not as cooperative as I'd hoped she'd be and wanted to be held the whole time. At least strollers are good for holding bags etc!

My accomplishment: I've been working on retraining Kaos's dogwalk contacts for a while now, thought it an ideal time when I'd have to have a break from training and competitions anyway. He would do 2o2o but it wasn't as crisp a performance as I wanted and sometimes he'd stop 4on instead. I did a lot of work with my contact training board to get the response I wanted, and after a few weeks at training before baby was born on just the end behaviour on the dogwalk (as I couldn't do much running anyway) and a refresher this week I decided to see how he'd go on the whole obstacle. I got a couple of really good performances! Still more work to be done - certainly more proofing and i think we might be able to get more speed - but a great improvement!

Edited May 27, 2011 by Kavik

[aussielover]

Mindy had her first club trial on saturday. I was very proud of her- she came 5th out of about 20 dogs! Her penalties were my fault- she actually fell off the table poor thing, because I forgot to tell her to stay till the last minute and she tried to do as I said- but too late

Really pleased that she stayed focussed on me the whole time without the use of any reward (during the course) It also was her first time doing more than a few obstacles at a time and she also did the A frame for the first time ever Although she had a refusal the first time she did it no problems the second attempt and even got the contacts right! She also completed the dog walk which was great as she had been jumping off halfway in training- though she missed the contact at the end (my fault as I was lagging behind her)

I also found out that I am very unfit!!!! One of my problems was that she was MUCH faster than me and by the end of the course I was too out of breath to give her commands properly.

I think we could have done much better if we had taken it a bit slower, but we both had heaps of fun!!! I was interested and pleased to see that even dogs who had months more experience had as many, if not more problems than us (some of them even running off halfway thru the course or stopping to sniff)!

I was wondering if anyone has had the experience of training with more than 1 club and if you think that is a good or bad idea?

I am happy with the club I train with at the moment but they only have one agility training day on the weekend- which I can't always make due to work commitments. I would like to train at least once weekly and I don't have the equipment at home or a big enough backyard to accomodate things like an A frame or Dog walk- the things we struggle with the most!

Also found out that Mindy is to jump the 600 class if she trials (she did not jump this height at the club trial). Unfortunately she just makes the 600 class- which looked very high to me, with even massive dogs like standard poodles knocking bars down! The jumps look as tall as the dog!

Does anyone else's dog jump in the 600 class and does your dog find it difficult?

i have not tried her over that height yet- I have noticed she jumps bigger jumps cleaner though, but not sure if this would be too high for her?

[J...]

Well done on your first club trial

I was wondering if anyone has had the experience of training with more than 1 club and if you think that is a good or bad idea?

I am happy with the club I train with at the moment but they only have one agility training day on the weekend- which I can't always make due to work commitments. I would like to train at least once weekly and I don't have the equipment at home or a big enough backyard to accomodate things like an A frame or Dog walk- the things we struggle with the most!

When I was an agility newbie I trained with a club, but it only trained in 4 week blocks with quite a few weeks off in between. So I started training with another club in between and learnt so much from it, in the end I started training with the 2nd club full time. It did cause a little bit of conflict, especially when club 1's ideas were quite different to club 2. But in the end my dog is my dog and I have full say in how she is trained and how I chose to handle & train her.

If it's contacts you are referring to with A frame and dogwalk - make yourself a travel plank. Mine is a length of wood probably 2.5 feet long, with a chock at either end and one in the middle so it sits about 2 to 3 inches off the ground. I trained my young dog's 2o2o contacts using the travel plank, the back steps and very occasional access to full size gear. So the minimal access to gear was used mostly for proofing, with very little teaching of the required behaviour. Saves a lot of time when you don't have gear.

As for jumping 600, my lab x jumps 500 and is 520 mm at the shoulders. She jumps 600 quite easily if I need to jump her at that height at club.

[J...]

An update on Darcy's jumping.

I did a session with her last week on the 6ft 7ft etc grid - she struggled with the 6ft and 7ft section as I don't jump her that compressed normally. Knocked a bar in the early section twice and got it right twice. Ran it backwards and once again she dropped a bar as she hit the really compressed section. Ran it twice again correctly.

Bent it and she nailed it both ways correctly.

Also did one quick session on the one jump exercise.

Took a practise jump to the trial yesterday and warmed her up then put her over that a few times with the same principle as the one jump exercise. Yesterdays trial was in sloppy mud, firm underneath but wet on top, keeping your feet for the day was a feat in itself. The dogs did fine in it, but plenty of bars came down yesterday.

Darcy knocked one bar for the entire trial, totally my fault for putting her at a spread at that angle (Snooker!). As a result she came home with 4 passes, a first in ADM, a 2nd in ADM & JDM, and a 6th in JDM. The 2nd in JDM was a bloody ugly run (hard to remember and even harder to stay on your feet) but I never even heard a bar tap. :D

No way do I think that's it and she's "cured" and yesterday could've just been one of her good days - but it's a good step in the right direction. :D I think the practise jump will become a permanent part of my trial gear too.

[Kavik]

Mindy had her first club trial on saturday. I was very proud of her- she came 5th out of about 20 dogs! Her penalties were my fault- she actually fell off the table poor thing, because I forgot to tell her to stay till the last minute and she tried to do as I said- but too late

Really pleased that she stayed focussed on me the whole time without the use of any reward (during the course) It also was her first time doing more than a few obstacles at a time and she also did the A frame for the first time ever Although she had a refusal the first time she did it no problems the second attempt and even got the contacts right! She also completed the dog walk which was great as she had been jumping off halfway in training- though she missed the contact at the end (my fault as I was lagging behind her)

I also found out that I am very unfit!!!! One of my problems was that she was MUCH faster than me and by the end of the course I was too out of breath to give her commands properly.

I think we could have done much better if we had taken it a bit slower, but we both had heaps of fun!!! I was interested and pleased to see that even dogs who had months more experience had as many, if not more problems than us (some of them even running off halfway thru the course or stopping to sniff)!

I was wondering if anyone has had the experience of training with more than 1 club and if you think that is a good or bad idea?

I am happy with the club I train with at the moment but they only have one agility training day on the weekend- which I can't always make due to work commitments. I would like to train at least once weekly and I don't have the equipment at home or a big enough backyard to accomodate things like an A frame or Dog walk- the things we struggle with the most!

Also found out that Mindy is to jump the 600 class if she trials (she did not jump this height at the club trial). Unfortunately she just makes the 600 class- which looked very high to me, with even massive dogs like standard poodles knocking bars down! The jumps look as tall as the dog!

Does anyone else's dog jump in the 600 class and does your dog find it difficult?

i have not tried her over that height yet- I have noticed she jumps bigger jumps cleaner though, but not sure if this would be too high for her?

Well done!

I have trained at 2 clubs at the same time with no problem. They are very different (one club was VERY small and I was instructing the beginners there as well as training my dog in the advanced class) and both flexible enough so I could train without confusing my dog.

My dog jumps 600 in ANKC, 650 in ADAA (he measures 570) with no problem. Knocking bars does not have to do with the height of the dog - there are many reasons why a dog may drop a bar or not. I think it is harder on the larger, heavier dogs than a smaller, lighter dog.

[Tassie]

An update on Darcy's jumping.

I did a session with her last week on the 6ft 7ft etc grid - she struggled with the 6ft and 7ft section as I don't jump her that compressed normally. Knocked a bar in the early section twice and got it right twice. Ran it backwards and once again she dropped a bar as she hit the really compressed section. Ran it twice again correctly.

Bent it and she nailed it both ways correctly.

Also did one quick session on the one jump exercise.

Took a practise jump to the trial yesterday and warmed her up then put her over that a few times with the same principle as the one jump exercise. Yesterdays trial was in sloppy mud, firm underneath but wet on top, keeping your feet for the day was a feat in itself. The dogs did fine in it, but plenty of bars came down yesterday.

Darcy knocked one bar for the entire trial, totally my fault for putting her at a spread at that angle (Snooker!). As a result she came home with 4 passes, a first in ADM, a 2nd in ADM & JDM, and a 6th in JDM. The 2nd in JDM was a bloody ugly run (hard to remember and even harder to stay on your feet) but I never even heard a bar tap. :D

No way do I think that's it and she's "cured" and yesterday could've just been one of her good days - but it's a good step in the right direction. :D I think the practise jump will become a permanent part of my trial gear too.

Way to go Jess. and Darcy - that's really rewarding!

[LilBailey]

Well done Jess I was watching some of the masters runs, Darcy looked good. Boy that ground was hard to move on though.

[Vickie]

Welcome back Kavik

well done AL, sounds like Mindy did great! She will be fine on 600 so long as she is fit & jump fit. My 500 dogs do 600 easily & we often run pairs at 600.

Great news Jess! The compression bit is hard, bit they do work it out. Hoping for you that she continues to keep the bars up. I totally understand how frustrating it can be.