Guest Panzer Attack! Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Hi everyone, I'm going to be lurking/joining this thread. My baby is only young, but we have big goals for him! I've done a DOL search but haven't been able to find much info on frustration training. I played around a bit with it the other day when my friend was over, he held Scooter while I waved the tug in front of him (on the ground, not actually shoving it in his face) and the friend let go once he started to get really revved up and whine. Is this correct? What else can I do to increase focus on the tug (and ultimately on me)? He doesn't particularly like being around me so I'd like to fix that too, but thought I could use the tug as a tool. Once it's very high value and he realises he only tugs with me, he'd probably want to be near me more, right? A very confused first timer PS: I only tug with him for very VERY short sessions and stop before he starts to lose interest. He's very toy focused, which is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Hi Panzer, I think by frustration training you mean building drive, which if you search for here you should find quite a few threads as drive building has been discussed quite a bit in the training forum. This is a really old thread for example but may be worth having a read through; http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/43795-prey-drive-control-focus/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Have any of the members here taught reliable running contacts (as distinct from the run and hope to hell the dog hits the colour). I am being optimistic that Kenz will some day return to agility but with a front shoulder ligament injury at present I am a little worried about her old 2o2o behavior and thinking this may need some modification should I manage to get her to the point of trialling again. The physio is optimistic that she could be back by next year - guess we will see but just figured I would ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Susan Garrett mentioned one of her next online courses is going to be how to train contacts. She didn't say which sort. She didn't talk about running contacts at the last seminar in Australia either, except to say that the 2o 2o are more reliable, but if she's pushed for time, she takes the risk. The trouble with the running contact - is sometimes the judges call it wrong. Much harder for them to do that with a stopped/slow contact. Her immediate next online course is likely to be about puppy training. Can't think why. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Sorry to hear your girl is injured - next year must seem like a world away Susan Garrett mentioned one of her next online courses is going to be how to train contacts. She didn't say which sort. She didn't talk about running contacts at the last seminar in Australia either, except to say that the 2o 2o are more reliable, but if she's pushed for time, she takes the risk. There's no risk about it - she's trained both reliably to separate commands and will use whichever one fits the bill at the time. Someone asked GD about it back in Sydney. He said even those flogging DVDs on training running contacts are having issues with 100% reliability. At that stage he was impressed with SG's method of teaching running but was sworn to secrecy and thought he would look at using SG's method if she could show continued reliability with it at top level. I haven't done running contacts here, I know kelpiechick has played with them. There is several Victorian's trialling with them at present (actually trained, not point and pray!). One is Aframe only, has own gear and used the pvc box method and seems to be going well (green dog). Other is a big striding dog doing both, retrained and occasionally misses the dogwalk contact. It does take a lot of repetition which would bother me, but 2o2o can be hard on a drivey dog too. I've given up on contacts with Darcy - we review it whenever I have access to gear, and she occasionally misses a DW contact but sh*t happens. I'm incredibly strict on Zee as a result - to the extent I blew her first ever AD pass this past weekend by putting her back on the dogwalk contact cos she left it before I released her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) Next year might seem a world away but at least it beats the alternative which at the moment is not worth thinking about because I just don't want to go there :cry:. Edited May 16, 2011 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 There are a few handlers here training their young dogs with them, very fast! But I don't think I could do it I need the 2o2o pause so I can catch up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Bar knocking issues I'm at a total loss with this one - especially confusing now Zee is trialling and is clean as in her jumping. I've gone through a lot of the Susan Salo stuff with Darcy (given that I need to take gear out elsewhere to do grids), have made a massive effort to ensure she is warmed up, stretched & cooled down. She gets a seasonal check up with a sports vet and at any sign of issues. I no longer work her at 400 and haven't for quite a while (club thing) and insist that bars are put up to 500 if I train with the club. Every week I work on her jumping. Yesterday we had a really technical JDM course which required some real handling to get through it - she didn't even tip a bar. Get out into the speed section of straight jumps (no funny angles) and she drops a bar. Every course yesterday we had multiple bars come down and I'm getting frustrated with it blowing so many really great passes. Double trial recently she blew every course with bar dropping on the Saturday, Sunday she never touched one. Easter trial 6 runs a day/two days and she dropped one bar all weekend. Her jumping has improved since we stopped training at 400 but this inconsistency is driving me bonkers. I suspect there is a bit of flattening out in speed sections but there is no predicability to it at all. Working on jumping every week is taking a lot of time out of handling and skills work and given I lug my equipment out for every training session that's a massive time drag. I'm wondering if anyone has ever pulled a dog out of competition to work solely on jumping for a few months and whether they got any results from it? The other thing I'm considering in total desperation is training her at 600 to encourage her to not flatten out. Any other suggestions would be welcome. I do need to start recording her runs more in trials but isn't easy when everyone else is busy running dogs as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xena98 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 What do you do when she takes out the bar in competition and what happens when you finish running a course with a bar down and what do you do when you get a clean run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Hi guys, quick question with hopefully a quick answer. For ANKC agility - if I am running a dog in say JDX, can the same dog enter JD but Not For Comp, in the same trial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 eensy weensy brag. My boy has always been very focused on me so I decided to try a little experiment at training yesterday. As we were running towards the weavers, I indicated for him to go through them and then I ran off at a 90 degree angle. He didn't miss a beat, kept his focus and ran through them perfectly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Hi guys, quick question with hopefully a quick answer. For ANKC agility - if I am running a dog in say JDX, can the same dog enter JD but Not For Comp, in the same trial? No. You can only enter one level of jumping. And ANKC does not have NFC runs. If you plan on running a different course than that listed (I did for a while to fix a running off issue) you can explain what you are doing to the judge. But you are not allowed to do a NFC run with rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) Hi guys, quick question with hopefully a quick answer. For ANKC agility - if I am running a dog in say JDX, can the same dog enter JD but Not For Comp, in the same trial? No. You can only enter one level of jumping. And ANKC does not have NFC runs. If you plan on running a different course than that listed (I did for a while to fix a running off issue) you can explain what you are doing to the judge. But you are not allowed to do a NFC run with rewards. WA has NFC runs for ANKC agility, but you must already have your title in the class you want to do NFC in. (Obedience, however, you don't need the title first ) Edited May 23, 2011 by RubyStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Interesting. I am pretty sure NSW does not have NFC runs. ADAA does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 But you are not allowed to do a NFC run with rewards. Ruby has her JD title, and I want to enter her in JDX. But a friend has a dog who cannot do agility now because of lameness but she would love to get back into running some trials, so I offered her Ruby to run JD in NFC. Not to reward, but to give a handler a chance to run some courses, and Ruby is very easy to handle (not being overly fast and all) and most of all she is very obliging. She doesn't decide to run her own course (usually) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I don't think you can enter both JD and JDX (can oly enter the class you are eligible for as far as I know, which would be JDX). What about letting her run in JDO? I know lots of people who let others run their dog in JDO for experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) I've just been informed by another WA'er that you can't run both at the same trial She can run NFC in JD or her standard JDX. That sucks when you want to help new handlers get out there when they currently don't have their own dog to run. The good thing about NFC is I am able to run her at a lower height if I want, so while the handler gets a chance to get out there and do a trial, the dog can run a lower height. Edit: JDO might be an option, but as the dog and handler are both fairly inexperienced, I don't want to push either of them in JDO. But I suppose if we ignore the distance challenge as it's NFC anyway, that might be an option Edited May 23, 2011 by RubyStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 What do you do when she takes out the bar in competition and what happens when you finish running a course with a bar down and what do you do when you get a clean run? Keep running, reward and reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Bar knocking issues Any other suggestions would be welcome. it could be that she is not judging her spacing well between collection and/or extension. This is often the case for dogs who pull bars on speed sections. have you tried this grid? Try setting a straight line of 5 jumps. The spacing between 1st & 2nd is 6ft, 2nd & 3rd is 7ft etc. When jumping this her striding between jumps should look balanced. Dogs who are not judging spacing between collection & extension will typically struggle & look very unbalanced. Do it both ways straight & then put a curve in it. It's a great grid and very challenging for many dogs in the beginning. the other exercise I really like is just one jump at all different angles & distance. Reward is given every time they don't touch the bar. Reward is not given if they touch it, even if the don't actually knock it. Most dogs don't actually know that they are supposed to keep the bar up. This exercise makes it very clear to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Most dogs don't actually know that they are supposed to keep the bar up. This exercise makes it very clear to them. Not that I've done this exercise, but I think this is a fantastic summation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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