Agility Training Talk Thread

[Cosmolo]

The horse/ dog comparison is interesting and i do think we're only just starting to catch up in terms of providing things like massage/ chiro etc for dogs. But with horses, they also have to deal with more dramatic differences in terrain as well as the weight, balance and co-ordination (or lack of) of their rider. However, i think fat horses are generally acceptable in some horse sports and this is something that needs to change. I like my dogs lean but they are often mistaken for 'skinny', though my vet loves them lean too.

[Agility Dogs]

] I think all agility dogs should receive regular chiropractic treatment - the sport can be hard on dogs.

I'm going to disagree with that. I see an alarming trend of unsound dogs receiving regular " adjustments" in NSW & ACT. No one can tell me that some of these "adjustments" are not creating many of the problems. Agility dogs should not have their back & neck "out" every other week! If my dogs backs & necks were out with any kind of regularity, I would never do agility again.

Now if we could guarantee the competancy of the "adjustors" I might agree with you.

I think regular check ups with a qualified adjustor/chiropractor are very valuable - we've found a few problems over the last couple of years that in 'pet' dogs would probably not have been an issue, but in 'athletes' could have led to a major injury if left unchecked.

Emphasis is on the term check ups though. My dogs are at our vet (who lectures in animal chiropractics) every 2 to 3 months for a complete check up and they are occasionally adjusted if necessary. Adjustments for the sake of keeping owners happy or feeling good about their husbandry are not a good thing, nor are they necessary. I leave it to our guy to tell me when he wants to see the dogs next and then will only take them in if I see something that is not right. (He reckons I'm freaky at some of things I've picked up on in the dogs.)

The other thing that most of us are guilty of is running 'cold' dogs or running them off the course and putting them straight back into their crate. If the dogs aren't fit enough or drivey enough to warm up properly then they probably aren't ready to be in the ring.

This is all part of an over all holistic approach though, not just a stand along. Stretching, massage, strength conditioning, endurance, skills, diet and understanding what impact it is all having on their overall health is pretty much the combined approach we take to ensuring they are fit and sound.

[J...]

I keep my dogs as fit as I can with free running, even that was an issue earlier on this year until I did a deal with the local ranger :D So while they are fit, they aren't as fit as they've been previously or as I'd like them but I do the best I can with my limited resources (it's a common theme with agility and I ).

Once the weather cools down and becomes less snakey I walk the 5 to 6 km around the inside of our local lake/crater while the dogs go feral up the inside of the crater hoping to flush bunnies. Best exercise ever but I won't do it while it's still so unseasonally warm. The lake itself is also a great fitness tool if it didn't break out in blue green algae every November Elbow to shoulder deep water retreiving is my summer exercise of preference but not in a lake with off the charts BGA levels.

So in Summer I drive 2 hour round trip after work 2 to 3 times a week so they can spend an hour plus at the beach. There is nowhere safe to bike around here. So at the moment free running is it, I do the occasional frisbee session maybe once a week at most but I don't like doing anything repetitive with hard driving dogs.

I also do regular core work with both dogs - balance work, rear end awareness etc.

Both dogs see a brilliant sports vet every 3 months, she's also qualified in several other holistic areas and does a brilliant job, especially with Zee who is a little stressy occasionally. She won't manipulate my dogs (despite being trained in chiro) but works deep into the muscles and trigger points. I'm not a fan of chiros for humans so I won't do that do my dogs.

I make a big effort to warm both dogs up before every run and warm them around before putting them back in their crates. Even with Zee just starting out and having 8 to 10 runs a day between them I'm still managing to do that. It is non negotiable, and if I miss a run because I won't negotiate on that one then so be it.

[huski]

The fitness stuff really interests me. I always try to keep Daisy as lean as possible and I think she's pretty fit but I definitely think her fitness could be better, when I think about it.

When everyone is talking about having dogs that would run around for hours, do you all feel that all fit and healthy dogs should be able to reach the same level of fitness or do you think breed (and therefore structure), drive, natural activity level etc all play a part too? For example I would expect a high drive working line dog to go for longer and harder than a small breed with lower drive even when the smaller dog is at optimum fitness.

Edited May 4, 2011 by huski

[J...]

I would think higher drive dogs would naturally be easier to keep fit as they are more likely to self exercise. I think it would also depend on their training/background and values.

I often look after my Dad's working kelpie if my parents are away, and take her out with my dogs for a run. My dogs are a lot fitter so they will run and keep running while Jet stays close with me and doesn't walk any further than I do. If I want her to walk 5 km then I need to walk every km of that 5 km with her.

Jet won't chase a ball or even have a game because she's never been taught that kind of thing. Bring some sheep into the equation and it will be a very different story - who would run the furthest given equal fitness levels? Good question.

[LilBailey]

Hi All

Came in to the training forum to ask a question about opions on a book and have spent for ever looking over this thread. I may have missed what I'm goning to ask so forgive me if I do.

I'm looking at training books atm and my main focus is on working away from me. Not stand in the middle, dog run the course but just moving ahead of me rather than looking back or the time. Clean Run's Go the distance looks good but I'm not sure.

When I handle a course I try to use Greg Derrets system but I don't do it as well as some of the people I have seen it's just that his system makes sence to me.

Please Help

[kelpiechick]

I'm looking at training books atm and my main focus is on working away from me. Not stand in the middle, dog run the course but just moving ahead of me rather than looking back or the time. Clean Run's Go the distance looks good but I'm not sure.

When I handle a course I try to use Greg Derrets system but I don't do it as well as some of the people I have seen it's just that his system makes sence to me.

Please Help

Think I may have seen some of your runs on Sunday with your BC ? (I had my 'baby' in Novice, tricolour BC) Apologies if I've got the wrong person, if not then I assume you are wanting to build up some more lateral distance with your dog to stop the curling in toward you all the time??

I would suggest going back to do some more foundation and training the skill with flatwork first away from the obstacles. You need to build up a balance of dog wanting to be in (Derrett) reinforcement zone plus also being rewarded away from you.

Best book I would recommend is 'Agility Right from the Start' - written by 2 Derrett handlers so it is compatible with your handling system.

The 2 exercises that will help you with developing this are called 'Aim for It' and 'Race to Reward'.

Air Dogs have the best price I have seen for this book, but if you check out the author's website first (think it's www.agilityrightfromthestart.com - if not do a Google) then you can download a little bit of the book for free plus there are a couple of short movies showing exercises from the book.

Terrific reference and helpful for training in general, not just those running Derrett system.

Other exercises that help are 'Facing forward' - from Susan Garrett's One Jump and also Jump Grids where your dog can target a toy on the ground while allowing you to build up some lateral distance without the distraction of handler movement. You can then proof your own movement in bit by bit - I like to use Rachel Sander's model for this - 'walk, jog, run'

Sorry, I can't comment on how useful the 'Go the Distance' would be as I haven't used it.

Hope this helps you.

[Vickie]

I haven't got the Go the distance book, but have attended 2 seminars with Stacy, the author. She is a fantastic instructor & I imagine her book would be just as good.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Vickie

[LilBailey]

Yeah KP thats me your thinking of. My friends were admiring your baby

At home she can move out but then I only have a few jumps. I have started to only reward away from me for a while to see if that helps. I looked up Agility right from the start and it looks great. Will help with my new boy too. Getting to training again would help as well as it has been 13 months since I have made it to a class. (week before bubs was born lol)

Thinking of checking out Bacchus Marsh as they have night classes

[Kavik]

I do what Vickie does The One Jump DVD exercises are also great for focus forward exercises

[caffy]

A simple way to start is with obstacle independence.

That is being able to get your dog to weave without you running the same line but moving off laterally and he/she completing the poles without you babysitting them.

From memory, Stacy covers that in Go the Distance.

[aussielover]

We are starting agility this weekend. Very excited!

Should I bring food rewards and a toy? I think my dog is more food driven than play driven (although she does like a good tug), but I;m not sure if running around and jumping whilst having food is a good idea.

[LilBailey]

We are starting agility this weekend. Very excited!

Should I bring food rewards and a toy? I think my dog is more food driven than play driven (although she does like a good tug), but I;m not sure if running around and jumping whilst having food is a good idea

Hope you enjoy it. Soft pallitble food such as hotdog, cheese, or that ham and chicken loaf from the cold section of the supermarket. Cut it up small and make sure that she swallows it before running more and she should be fine.

If you wanted to get her playing more you could try a food tug at home and work on play as a reward. IMO both play and food is good as you can use different rewards for different situations.

Have fun!

[Enigma]

Hi

I was wanting to start agility with my shepherd and was wondering where I can buy equipment and was also looking at making some things myself. Is there a somewhere I can find out specifications for equipment, such as distance between weave poles etc

thanks in advance

[Tassie]

How old is your dog, Enigma? And what general training have you done already? As you'll see from discussions here, the foundation training which for the most part is done without equipment, is key to success in agility. The obstacles come later. As one of hte 'gurus' Greg Derrett, says, agility is about running with your dog, and the dog following the directions you set with your body and to a lesser extent, voice. The obstacles are sort of speed humps on the dog's path.

You can find the equipment descriptions

for ADAA - ADAA link

for ANKC ANKC link

The best way to get into agility IMHO is to find yourself an appropriate club, and/or private instructor, who can help you. I must admit, I'd struggle to try to do it on my own.

Hi

I was wanting to start agility with my shepherd and was wondering where I can buy equipment and was also looking at making some things myself. Is there a somewhere I can find out specifications for equipment, such as distance between weave poles etc

thanks in advance

[Enigma]

She is 15 mo. I have done some basic obedience with her but I have only had her 4 months and I think she spent the first 11 months of her life in the backyard and is not very well socialised and is very dog reactive on lead (which we are working on) therefore doing any training at a club is impossible at this stage

[Tassie]

Ah - OK - then I think you will really find doing some intensive foundation training (mostly flatwork) really valuable. Try doing a search on here for threads on resources for agility foundation training - I'm sure there have been some recommending good resources. There are a couple of DVDs I'd be starting with.

Considring the reactivity spcifically, again there are some recommendations on here - I'd be looking at something like the Conrol Unleashed (Leslie McDevitt) programme - which dovetails neatly in with agility foundation training.

Basically what you're attempting is to make working with and responding to you the greatest thing since sliced bread - heavily rewarded - and making the presence (distant at first) of other dogs the oportunity to earn even greater rewards.

There are a couple of trainers on here not too far from you who do private lessons and are accustomed to working with reactive dogs - it would be well worth your while taking a few lessons to get you started..

[whiskedaway]

Hey guys. Our agility instructor has said to get a tab leash for Akira now that she's training off leash - will allow me to guide her if I need to, but won't get in the way if she's doing obstacles. Only issue is they're really hard to find. I've found them in the US, but I'd prefer to buy from Australia just because delivery is so much faster. I have seen the one from K9 Pro, but I don't like it that it doesn't really have a handle - if she pulls it's going to be very hard to hang onto. I am looking for something like this: http://www.fordogtrainers.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=82_85&products_id=71

Anyone have any ideas where I can find one in Australia?

[J...]

Hey guys. Our agility instructor has said to get a tab leash for Akira now that she's training off leash - will allow me to guide her if I need to, but won't get in the way if she's doing obstacles. Only issue is they're really hard to find. I've found them in the US, but I'd prefer to buy from Australia just because delivery is so much faster. I have seen the one from K9 Pro, but I don't like it that it doesn't really have a handle - if she pulls it's going to be very hard to hang onto. I am looking for something like this: http://www.fordogtrainers.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=82_85&products_id=71

Anyone have any ideas where I can find one in Australia?

Try the Black Dog Snub Leads, not a handle but a knot type thing at the end which makes them easier to hang onto. Hard to explain but google Black Dog wear and look in the leads section.

[ness]

WA - a really quick/cheap suggestion would be to go to a shop like Cheap as Chips - pick up a cheapie lead and cut it at an appropriate length. Its not something you will need to use forever and that way you can cut it at a length you want. Saves paying postage to. I have also in the past used old leads cut to length - I seemed to gather a few BC chewed off ones .