Temperament In Historically Independent Breeds

[SkySoaringMagpie]

If you breed a breed that has historically been bred to be aloof, or scrappy, or independent how do you balance this with the need to place dogs in companion homes in a society that is intolerant of dogs that don't behave like Disney channel dogs?

Have you decided to move to a "friendlier" temperament or are you aiming for solid temperament but still with the breed characteristics?

Is it possible to retain breed characteristics in a responsible way in your breed? How do you select homes that will cope with/enjoy the temperament?

[Missymoo]

My first questian to the would be buyer is "Have you had a Terrier before" not just any breed, but i will mostly only sell to those who have had a terrier and are 100% aware of the traits and those who really can prove they have done thier homework and the breed is for them. I have told many a person who has rung that a cairn is not for them, infact to steer away from the Terriers entirely as they are not what they are after or would fit into thier lifestyle.

Thats personally how I do it.

[Sayly]

We haven't bred yet but plans for our first litter with Ruby later in the year. Irish Terriers are known to be fiery and as the red devils. As breeders we don't want to get rid of this part of our breed but it is important to balance it. Irish should never be nasty towards people ever and make great pets when in the right home.

It's about making people aware that they are a breed that requires ALOT of positive dog socialisation as pups and through out their lives. They can be headstrong and difficult to train and aren't known for solid recalls, especially if something small and furry gets their attention. We aim to breed dogs that are sociable with dogs but still maintain the Irish personality.

The standard states:

There is a heedless, reckless pluck about the Irish Terrier which is characteristic. They develop a great devotion for their masters.

Temperament: Good tempered, notably with humans, it being admitted, however, that he is perhaps a little to ready to resent interference on the part of other dogs.

Which we take as they won't start an arguament but would happily jump in if someone else started something! Which is what I have seen from Ruby and others I have had anything to do with.

Ruby lives in a household with another entire bitch and they run together. She is also very accepting of any other entire bitches (and dogs) that come into the yard.

So it's about finding the right homes and making sure they are well aware of the requirements of the breed. I don't think I would sell a male to a household with another male Irish unless they were extremely experienced.

Luckily we have a rare breed, and those that tend to enquire have done at least some research on the breed.

It's important to maintain the breed personality or we will lose an important part of the breed. It's about balance (I wouldn't want to breed completely dog aggressive dogs of course) and making sure they go to the right homes.

Edited July 5, 2010 by Lyndsay

[Steve]

All breeds have characteristics which need to be discussed with the person who is considering taking them into their homes. Its basically placing dogs in homes which want to live with those particular traits.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

All breeds have characteristics which need to be discussed with the person who is considering taking them into their homes. Its basically placing dogs in homes which want to live with those particular traits.

I think that works OK for the trait if it's primarily independence. With the "toey" breeds tho' there's a lot less tolerance in society these days for anything that even looks like aggression, even if it's an appropriate ticking off between dogs. The Afghan standard says "a certain keen fierceness". A dog that displays that is often a lot of dog to handle, so even if they want to, your average punter might not be able to.

I've heard breeders of both hounds and terriers say that society is too litigious, and they are going for a softer, family style friendlier temperament because of that litigiousness even if that means departing from the standard. I've heard other say they feel conflicted about it. I fall into the latter camp.

[Incavale]

The buyer selection process is only part of the process. There's got to be a genunine commitment to train the dog with the ability to handle the dog. A 40 kg dog on one end of a lead with a 45 kg handler, doesn't really work well all the time.

[ellz]

There are way more people who THINK they should own a Stafford, than there are people who actually ARE suited to the breed.

The reality is that Staffords CAN be dog aggressive but there is also a saying that a good Stafford won't start a fight, but he sure as hell won't let one go unfinished.

The importance is finding custodians for the breed who understand how NOT to put a dog into a situation that will escalate and how to read body language and signs and pre-empt a problem.

I turn many people away and refuse to sell them dogs or puppies. They don't like it and I would say probably 8 out of 10 times they go elsewhere and somebody else DOES sell them a Stafford but I can at least sleep at night knowing that it isn't going to be one of my dogs that is placed into a potentially dangerous situation.

[WreckitWhippet]

There are way more people who THINK they should own a Stafford, than there are people who actually ARE suited to the breed.

The reality is that Staffords CAN be dog aggressive but there is also a saying that a good Stafford won't start a fight, but he sure as hell won't let one go unfinished.

The importance is finding custodians for the breed who understand how NOT to put a dog into a situation that will escalate and how to read body language and signs and pre-empt a problem.

I turn many people away and refuse to sell them dogs or puppies. They don't like it and I would say probably 8 out of 10 times they go elsewhere and somebody else DOES sell them a Stafford but I can at least sleep at night knowing that it isn't going to be one of my dogs that is placed into a potentially dangerous situation.

Pretty much what Ellz says

In addition to that, I find the watered down dogs to be just as much if not more of a worry than the dogs with the correct temperament. " Bold, fearless and totally reliable " in my opinion is what makes the Stafford such a stable and enduring dog. It's those dogs with the nerve, that tolerate the kids and put up with situations that would bring many a dog undone.

Water it down and you have the fear aggressive, gutless wonders, that make for ticking bombs. Put the pressure on them and they go off.

[Sandra777]

What Ellz & SBT123 said.

Staffords, and many other breeds I imagine, are so stable and reliable because of their "toey" "fiesty" "scrappy" tendencies - these tendencies go hand and paw with the bold fearless temperament that allows them to put up with the surprises, noises and stresses of "modern life".

No, I won't compromise correct breed temperament.

[WreckitWhippet]

Nice summary Sandra :p

[SparkyTansy]

There are way more people who THINK they should own a Stafford, than there are people who actually ARE suited to the breed.

The reality is that Staffords CAN be dog aggressive but there is also a saying that a good Stafford won't start a fight, but he sure as hell won't let one go unfinished.

The importance is finding custodians for the breed who understand how NOT to put a dog into a situation that will escalate and how to read body language and signs and pre-empt a problem.

I turn many people away and refuse to sell them dogs or puppies. They don't like it and I would say probably 8 out of 10 times they go elsewhere and somebody else DOES sell them a Stafford but I can at least sleep at night knowing that it isn't going to be one of my dogs that is placed into a potentially dangerous situation.

Pretty much what Ellz says

In addition to that, I find the watered down dogs to be just as much if not more of a worry than the dogs with the correct temperament. " Bold, fearless and totally reliable " in my opinion is what makes the Stafford such a stable and enduring dog. It's those dogs with the nerve, that tolerate the kids and put up with situations that would bring many a dog undone.

Water it down and you have the fear aggressive, gutless wonders, that make for ticking bombs. Put the pressure on them and they go off.

Absolutely 100% agree with this statement, and could apply it to many a breed.

[nobul]

I try and keep the true temperament , that is what they were originally bred for, nothing worse IMO than a BT or mini that just sits on the lounge or in front of the fire all day !! The temperament is what first attracted me to them.

Most buyers calls are from those who like the "look" and have no regards to anything else. I screen those to my best ability but i have in the past made poor judgement (although those lied to me after ringing others first and getting the answers sorted and knew just what to answer) i really find those who have had them before havent had the real thing it has been a crossbred and they have no idea what a real one is like !!! My breed is definately NOT suited to everyone actually few in all honesty can be responsible enough to own them

See me personally would never buy a working dog - just far too much energy for me , or a fluffy, that grooming would do my head in but that is me and those who enjoy those breed wouldnt think of ever owning a BT or mini lol