Neurological Problems ?

[MooBoo]

Last year we woke up one morning to find Bella couldn't walk properly, was like she was drunk and falling over. She had also been vomiting, so we rushed her straight to the emergency vet. They did a test on her heart which showed up a slight murmur but nothing of great significance. We took her to our vet when they opened and they kept her in all day to keep an eye on her, but she just slept on and off all day. No more vomiting but still wobbly. We brought her home that night and she slept throughout. By the end of the next day she was back to normal. She has had no issues until this morning.

This morning I woke to her vomitting next to my head She was slightly wobbly, (but she had 2 knee ops at the end/start of year and the cold isn't being her friend), I didn't think too much of it. She then went on to vomit 3 more times over about 2 hours and became less stable on her legs, just like she had before. Then she started kicking one of her front legs out with every step she took.

Our vet had just left for the day, so we took her to another one close by. She thinks something is going on in her brain but thought as she had something similar last year that cleared up she thought it best to take her home and keep an eye on her, if she gets worse take her to the emergency vet. She gave Bella an antibiotic shot and some to bring home.

Bella has slept on and off all day and only recently got up to go for a walk outside. She is much better, still slightly wobbly but not like she was and the front leg isn't kicking out anymore.

I've tried googling the symptoms, but of course there are so many outcomes.

I'm just wondering if anyone has had any experience with this sort of thing. I know cat scans and so on will show if she has a tumor or blood clot etc, but the fact that she is better 24hrs later and it has been a year in between episodes, has us perplexed.

Any ideas would be great.

[persephone]

That must be a bit scary

Epilepsy is all I can think of ....vomiting can be part of it , AFAIK..and the odd gait ..

Hope it has gone now for another year!

[matilda1]

How old is Bella and what breed?

It could be Vestibular http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_vestibular_disease.html

It could be spinal, infection or just idiopathic.

Have you considered a CT scan?

I know they are not cheap, but it will give you some answers.

Hope she is doing well for you at the moment

[matilda1]

sorry, I just read that you have thought about CT scans.

I think it could be a good idea.

I am a vet nurse in Emergency and critical care and we often see these symptoms, but I can't give you a diagnosis without seeing your dog.

We do often find the answer in a CT scan though.

Like I mentioned above, sometimes they are brain lesions, and sometimes it's nothing serious at all, but if it happens again, I would highly recommend finding out exactly what the cause is. You may be able to treat it.

[MooBoo]

That must be a bit scary

Epilepsy is all I can think of ....vomiting can be part of it , AFAIK..and the odd gait ..

Hope it has gone now for another year!

I sort of thought this too, that maybe she was having a seizure or something.

How old is Bella and what breed?

It could be Vestibular http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_vestibular_disease.html

It could be spinal, infection or just idiopathic.

Have you considered a CT scan?

I know they are not cheap, but it will give you some answers.

Hope she is doing well for you at the moment

Bell is 7 1/2yr old Dogue de Bordeaux (she's the one in my avatar)

I agree a CT will give us some answers and if it was occuring on a regular basis we'd get one straight away. Vestibular was the first thing that came up when I googled the symptoms and was going to ask our vet about it when we go back in.

[Erny]

Just as another thing to consider also is the possibility of heavy metal poisoning (eg. lead; mercury; etc). Might be worth running a heavy metal test via blood and via urine. I might be on the wrong track and I offer this only as a thought (I have no definitive experience to draw on), but at least it is something to consider and if your Vet feels it is worthwhile exploring, would not be overly invasive nor expensive. If it was a possibility, it would be the first test I'd have done.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Erny

[MooBoo]

Just as another thing to consider also is the possibility of heavy metal poisoning (eg. lead; mercury; etc).

I have two other dogs though, do you think it would affect only her or all of them??? I don't know anything about heavy metal poisoning, off to do some googling.

[matilda1]

in my experience heavy metal poisoning would not be intermittent??? (I could be wrong) but unless she has access to lead paint or you have been feeding her copious amounts of copper sulfate it is unlikely. Symptoms are very similar though.

[~Anne~]

I have never heard of vomitting before with epilepsy. To me it sounds like it could be vetisbular. She may be sufferíng 'sea sickness or travel sickness' because of it.

[MooBoo]

Thanks for all the replies.

She was back to her normal old self today, running around and playing.

We are going to the vet on Wednesday to get a blood test to check her Thyroid out for her weight problem, so I'm going to have a chat about Vetisbular. It was the first thing that came up when I googled and it just seems to fit.

Hopefully we wont see anything like it for another year...or never. Fingers crossed.

[WoofnHoof]

Lead poisoning can cause neurological symptoms I've heard of it happening if dogs find a battery and chew on it. Liver issues can also cause both neurological problems and digestive issues so maybe get them to do a liver function test?

Edited for typo

Edited July 4, 2010 by WoofnHoof

[Erny]

in my experience heavy metal poisoning would not be intermittent??? (I could be wrong) but unless she has access to lead paint or you have been feeding her copious amounts of copper sulfate it is unlikely. Symptoms are very similar though.

Could also be a contaminant in the soil? Probably not, but a possibility?

I'm sort of mentioning this here in response to your post, BD, because, as a result of my boy's ongoing issues, I had a heavy metal urine test done on my boy and it has shown up positive. It showed a colour that was not on the test chart (exactly) and seemed to be a combination of lead and mercury. I've tested the water here, but that's clear. I'm next going to test the water from his ceramic bowl, as some ceramics can cause this type of contamination.

From my very basic understanding of it (and I emphasise "basic") you can have chronic cases and then you can have acute cases. I expect the latter would be from cases where the animal eats something like a battery, or a lead weight or something. But the chronic might be something more subtle - like living in an environment where lead particles from peeling paint or something are absorbed over time. Heavy metals can be absorbed by the fetus through the mother's womb as well, so it can start from way back then. But I presume if the pups aren't sickly then it would have been unlikely to have occurred this way. Only my guesswork and assumption though.

I also believe that once affected by heavy metal intact/absorption, the body is unable to rid itself of it and requires detoxification to do so. I'm not sure myself about the intermittent symptoms and it's hard to find the answers via google, but I do wonder if a mild toxicity level could cause this. I don't know, but I am interested in it.

Sorry for the slight hi-jack Mooboo. The information may or may not be helpful to you. Either way, I hope you can find out what ails your dog and that it is nothing serious and easily remedied.

[Burkes]

My 6yr old GSD had similar symptoms when she had a small stroke. She was very wobbly, but was more drooling than vomiting. Her eyes were a little glazed too.

The vet put her on some heart medication as he found she also had a heart murmur. The medication kicked in after about 5 days and she was good as new, probably better in fact.

The vet said she could have lived for another week or another couple of years, there was no way to tell. She lasted another 9mths then had another stroke and had to be PTS:(

Hope she stays on the improve!

[MooBoo]

My 6yr old GSD had similar symptoms when she had a small stroke. She was very wobbly, but was more drooling than vomiting. Her eyes were a little glazed too.

The vet put her on some heart medication as he found she also had a heart murmur. The medication kicked in after about 5 days and she was good as new, probably better in fact.

The vet said she could have lived for another week or another couple of years, there was no way to tell. She lasted another 9mths then had another stroke and had to be PTS:(

Hope she stays on the improve!

Bella was drooling a lot too, I didn't think much of it because she's a ddb, they are always drooling, but it was a little bit more excessive than normal. Bell was also diagnosed with a slight heart murmur after her first episode last year. The vet checked her eyes straight away but they were normal, her whole mental state was normal, it was just her physical state.

Thanks for your experience Burkes, I'm so sorry you lost your girl.

[aussielover]

Could it be canine geriatric vestibular disease? This presents in a similar fashion and often resolves itself within a few days.

I know she is only 7 and a half, but that is a reasonable age for a Dogue?

[Weibritty]

MooBoo - My 13 year old Brittany recently had a severe episode of Geriatric Vestibular Syndrome and spent 4 days in ICU on a drip. Her symptoms were vomiting, drooling, eyes flickering side to side and an unbalanced gait. Well basically she really was just trying to take a few steps and collapsing. Very frightening for us seeing it happening, but I sensed it wasn't a seizure/fit or stroke. When we went to see her the next day she had a head tilt, which can be permanent with some dogs. This condition can take between 1 to 3 weeks for the dog to recover. I was advised if there was no improvement in her within a week to get a CT scan. So I'm pleased to say my girl did recover very well and at this stage I haven't had the need for the CT scan. Every now and then her feet go from under her and she wobbles a bit, especially if she gets up too quickly. So I would highly recommend you get a CT scan on your dog if her symptoms have occured for a second time, just so you can find out what you are dealing with. Best of luck with your gorgeous girl.

[matilda1]

in my experience heavy metal poisoning would not be intermittent??? (I could be wrong) but unless she has access to lead paint or you have been feeding her copious amounts of copper sulfate it is unlikely. Symptoms are very similar though.

Could also be a contaminant in the soil? Probably not, but a possibility?

I'm sort of mentioning this here in response to your post, BD, because, as a result of my boy's ongoing issues, I had a heavy metal urine test done on my boy and it has shown up positive. It showed a colour that was not on the test chart (exactly) and seemed to be a combination of lead and mercury. I've tested the water here, but that's clear. I'm next going to test the water from his ceramic bowl, as some ceramics can cause this type of contamination.

From my very basic understanding of it (and I emphasise "basic") you can have chronic cases and then you can have acute cases. I expect the latter would be from cases where the animal eats something like a battery, or a lead weight or something. But the chronic might be something more subtle - like living in an environment where lead particles from peeling paint or something are absorbed over time. Heavy metals can be absorbed by the fetus through the mother's womb as well, so it can start from way back then. But I presume if the pups aren't sickly then it would have been unlikely to have occurred this way. Only my guesswork and assumption though.

I also believe that once affected by heavy metal intact/absorption, the body is unable to rid itself of it and requires detoxification to do so. I'm not sure myself about the intermittent symptoms and it's hard to find the answers via google, but I do wonder if a mild toxicity level could cause this. I don't know, but I am interested in it.

Sorry for the slight hi-jack Mooboo. The information may or may not be helpful to you. Either way, I hope you can find out what ails your dog and that it is nothing serious and easily remedied.

It is possible indeed, unfortunately impossible to tell just by discribing symptoms.

Would need to run somet tests.

As is the case for vastibular.

In any scenario.....I hope you get some answers and your dog improves soon

[4Kelpies]

MooBoo - My 13 year old Brittany recently had a severe episode of Geriatric Vestibular Syndrome and spent 4 days in ICU on a drip. Her symptoms were vomiting, drooling, eyes flickering side to side and an unbalanced gait. Well basically she really was just trying to take a few steps and collapsing. Very frightening for us seeing it happening, but I sensed it wasn't a seizure/fit or stroke. When we went to see her the next day she had a head tilt, which can be permanent with some dogs. This condition can take between 1 to 3 weeks for the dog to recover. I was advised if there was no improvement in her within a week to get a CT scan. So I'm pleased to say my girl did recover very well and at this stage I haven't had the need for the CT scan. Every now and then her feet go from under her and she wobbles a bit, especially if she gets up too quickly. So I would highly recommend you get a CT scan on your dog if her symptoms have occured for a second time, just so you can find out what you are dealing with. Best of luck with your gorgeous girl.

My dog had similar symptoms when he had Vestibular Syndrome but fortunately his case was nowhere near as bad and he wasn't vomiting. He still has a head tilt - not severe but one ear is always higher than the other. I have had to raise his food dish as lowering his head to eat made him lose balance and fall over.

Is there any more news about Bella? I hope she is feeling better.