Does My Puppy Have Some Sort Of Seperation Anxiety?

[aussielover]

Hi, I have posted here before about Mindy's night time troubles.

There seemed to be some improvement (actually no barking and settling straight away) initially (about a wee after we got her home). This lasted for a week.

She has then started to bark and cry for up to 2 hrs when she is put to bed. This doesn't happen every night but I would say at least every second night, possibly more often than that.

She sleeps in the laundary with the crate door open. There is a heater in the laundary and she has lots of blankets. There are tiles so she can lie on them if she gets too hot.

She is toilet trained and does not go overnight if she sleeps straight away. If she barks for more than an hour, there is a good chance she will toilet (eiither a wee or poo). which leads me to think seperation anxiety?

She is crated for around 1-2 hrs during the day, but never more than 3 hrs. she has no problems going in that area during the day. She will go in there by herself during the day. She doesn't seem overly concerned at being left alone during the day (she does give you the look though which makes you feel terrible).

Is she getting to the stage where she is trying to test us? or does she have seperation anxiety and should she see a behaviourist or something?

Someone recommended a DAP infuser thingy- but they are very expensive and I don't want to waste money if she is just being naughty.

Guide dogs didn't know why she would be doing this, they said most pups settle within a few weeks. They said to igonore her (which is quite hard she is loud and I'm surprised the neighbors haven't complained). Any more tips or advice would be great!

[persephone]

If she barks for more than an hour, there is a good chance she will toilet (eiither a wee or poo). which leads me to think seperation anxiety?

To me it just means that she's awake

When sleeping, kidney/bowel function slow right down.... but when awake and lively, then, of course everything is working!

Why not shut the crate door at night? Or have you tried this , I can't remember, sorry.

If she has the run of the laundry... it's warm, and perhaps light.. then she will want to be doing stuff ...

Any reason you don't have her in a crate in your room?

[2staffys]

I'm not sure I can help but thought I'd add what my 16 week old staffy pup is doing at the moment.

He is crated at night in our bedroom. We have another staffy, 3 years old, who is also in this same crate. I know that a lot of people are against crating 2 dogs together but this works for Buster as he has severe separation anxiety and has since the day we got him. Buster was the runt of the litter and seems to be a little behind in development not that we love him any less. He used to wake up during the night (sometimes more than once) and cry to be let out. Sometimes it was to go to the toilet but it was mostly to want and come and sleep with my husband and I. Not a suitable option really!! This has now stopped and he sleeps right through. Such a blessing.

We tried crating him by himself and he was a screamer, a really bad one! He would wake numerous times and cry for an hour at least and after several weeks it just didn't improve. Now with the company and warmth of our first staffy Indy he seems to have settled.

I would possibly try moving the crate into your bedroom if it's an anxiety issue. We're just about to try and move ours out into the loungeroom since things are going well at the moment but it has definitely helped Buster knowing that everyone in the family is together in the bedroom.

Good luck, I feel your pain

[macka]

If she is going to the toilet after barking for an hour, how do you know she is not barking because she needs to go out?

Most pups do settle within a few weeks but some need a little extra support initially.

I'd be putting the crate in your bedroom so that she can hear you and be comforted by your presence. Make sure her bladder and bowels are empty when you put her to bed. Keep the door closed - the whole point of crate training is that they can't get up and go to the toilet. Keep the crate covered with a light sheet. Once she is settling in your room with minimal fuss, gradually move the crate out of your room and down the hallway, into the laundry, bit by bit over a period of 1-2 weeks.

Also, it's pretty cold at the moment; have you tried a hot water bottle?

[persephone]

have you tried a hot water bottle?

She's a lab- perhaps she would chew it?

[aussielover]

She is toileted just before bed, so don't see why she would need to go out 2 seconds after she is put in. Maybe after an hour of barking she needs to go again, but I don't want to go to her and reward her for barking. Once I did go down to her becuase I thought she might need to go and let her out to toilet and then she continued barking for another hour after that!

I initally shut the crate door, it didn't make a difference and she was better with it open ( to begin with). Also, what if she does need to toilet because she has been up barking? I'd rather her go on the puppy pads or newspaper I lay.

There is no way she can come in my bedroom, she is a guide dog and they're not suppposed to be in bedrooms (as puppies at least). Its also upstairs (she isn't allowed upstairs) which could make toileting a bit difficult.

I have been told I am allowed to put her outside but that would be pretty horrible she'd probably freeze to death and wake all the neighbours for sure

[macka]

I realise she can't stay in the bedroom permanently, it would only be to help her settle initially. Anyway if you're not prepared to move her then you'll just have to wait out the barking. She'll learn eventually that it doesn't get the attention she wants.

The whole point of confining them to a crate (which should be blocked off so that it is just big enough for them to stand up, turn around and lie down) is that they learn to hold on because they don't like toileting in their bed. The problem with leaving newspaper etc down is that they don't learn to hold on overnight because they don't need to - they can just go whenever they want.

What I did with both my pups was make sure they have toileted, put them in their crates, close the door, cover the crate and then ignore. If they are whining after an hour I'd go to them with no fuss (no pats, no talking, no interaction), take them outside and give the command to toilet, they would go, then I'd quietly praise and put them back in the crate, cover it again, and walk away. Then IGNORE! They eventually go to sleep, and they learn that whining=a quick trip to the toilet and nothing more than that - no fun, no attention, no games. For the first couple of weeks you have to get up in the night to take them to the toilet. Then they gradually develop better bladder control and learn to hold on.

Covering the crate helps to settle them and get them to sleep. You could also try giving her an old t-shirt with your scent on it and softly playing some talk-back radio for her.

ETA - have you done any crate games to make sure the crate is seen as a happy place? Running into the crate for a treat, feeding in the crate, putting a bone in the crate, then closing the door with pup outside so pup wants to go in, that sort of thing?

Edited June 29, 2010 by macka

[aussielover]

Mindy doesn't whine, she full on howls and barks!

She has been good for the last two nights though.

After her last toilet break I have let her become sleepy in the TV room and then relocated her to the crate. She has slept for about 8 hrs and not had an accident.

I'd like her to sleep on my bed but sadly this is not allowed

Thanks for your suggestions, hopefully she will settle down soon.

[corvus]

To me, it sounds like she is being asked more than she can do. Have you tried putting her to bed with a Kong to calm her and take her mind off being left alone?

[Sandra777]

I'd like her to sleep on my bed but sadly this is not allowed

She doesn't have to sleep on your bed, simply move the crate into your room. AFAIK most guide dogs sleep in their owner's bedroom and it was not encouraged for them to be "separated" from their owner (this was when I was involved with GDs many moons ago )

If she lived here she probably would have had the spray treatment by now -open the door, squirt her with a spray bottle, say NO firmly and shut the door - but don't do this until you are sure it's nothing more serious than trying you on. Try confining her to the crate and see what happens.

[aussielover]

Yep to the kong- but it makes her hyper and more likely to bark.

[sas]

Crate in the bedroom.....problem fixed

My foster pup sleeps in the crate in the lounge because he's happy there.

I had my own pup in a crate in the bedroom, that way I could hear him cry if he needed to toilet over night. He did pack some tantrums to start with but they were just ignored and they in-turn faded away.

A bathroom is a cold sterile place that I don't believe puppies belong in. You effectively have taken a puppy away from its' litter which is all it knew and put it in the bathroom.....wonder why it's not happy?

I don't think there's any point in having a crate if you're not going to use it properly.

Edited June 30, 2010 by sas

[aussielover]

Ok I spoke to guide dogs and they said it would be ok to temporarily have her in the bedroom. If I do crate her in my bedroom, will this create issues with her not being allowed upstairs?

Will she start to think she is allowed upstairs? At the moment she is quite good about not going up and has never tried. I am worried that once she knows that there is "stuff" up there she will want to go up?

Edited June 30, 2010 by aussielover

[koalathebear]

Ok I spoke to guide dogs and they said it would be ok to temporarily have her in the bedroom. If I do crate her in my bedroom, will this create issues with her not being allowed upstairs?

Will she start to think she is allowed upstairs? At the moment she is quite good about not going up and has never tried. I am worried that once she knows that there is "stuff" up there she will want to go up?

For Elbie, when we were in our rented house, we let him sleep in our bedroom in his crate for a couple of weeks. We just sectioned off the upstairs. He knew he wasn't supposed to go up there so generally didn't. He's a naughty pup so sometimes he'd do a quick scamper and run around there to look around out of curiosity but then he'd come back downstairs. I don't think you need to worry too much about Mindy getting confused. Also, we used a travel crate for when we were toilet-training Elbie so would carry the crate up and down the stairs and didn't let Elbie walk up and down to our room himself. That was mainly because the landlord had white carpet in the hallway

Elbie was crying even in our room so we popped his crate on top of a box so that he could see us. We also kept our fingertips in the crate until he fell asleep. A week later, we didn't need to put our fingertips in anymore and we moved the crate further away and down on the floor.

Like you, we'd tried everything - toy, hot water bottle, alarm clock, clock radio set to a boring talk show ... Argh

Good luck!

[Stitch]

Dogs/puppies are fully capable of understanding what you teach them.

So if you allow access to the bedroom at night but not at other times, they will learn that.

Fully agree that it is quite acceptable to crate the pup beside you in the bedroom and as they get older & have more understanding, gradually move them further and further away.

They are very adaptable when they are not stressed, and all you would be doing would be eliminating a current stressful laundry situation.

Doesn't mean it will be stressful for them to be in the laundry when they are older, just now when they are young and more fearful of a strange, lonely place.

[aussielover]

Thankyou for your suggestions.

I have decided to perservere with the crate in the laundary as she has been good for the last 3 nights and no barking or accidents. It has been actually over a week now since she has had an accident overnight. I think she may be settling down a bit now, she seems a lot calmer overall.

[RPMgirl]

Something I have tried is the "shush" command. I have Lucy in the laundry (as you know!) and my bedroom is next door. I leave the door open so I can hear her and she can hear me and when she's barking/whining, I have stood behind the closed door and said "shush" until she's quietened. I waited 5 seconds and then food rewarded her, stretched it out to 10, then 20 then 30, and usually she's settled herself after 20 seconds and I leave.

But I've still gotta get the toilet training down!