sheree_e4 Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 The people who I have talked to about Koolies are very good trainers, and do compete with their dogs. I was looking into Koolies as a potential next agility dog. Genetics has a lot to do with drive/nerves/timidity etc. While training and socialisation can do some, it still cannot alter the genetic tendency of the animal.I also think Koolies may be too much for a child to handle. They are a herding breed as are Kelpies and Border Collies, and while they can be great family dogs, I think they are too much dog for a child to handle. If the children are going to be actually walking the dog, then I would go a smaller breed that is more easily handled. Maybe a terrier? Just wondering if any of the trainers you are refering to actually own a koolie or koolie x...... Koolies are one person/family dogs and won't 'work' for just anyone.. they if being nagged will not 'work' and if the point is pushed too hard then yes they will SEEM timid.... I had a trainer ask to use one of my koolies to demonstrate something... I did say to her that she would not listen but said its fine she will, she handed her back to me saying why would you buy a stupid dog like that,funny thing was as soon as she gave her back I did the demonstraion for the trainer with her. I also disagree with a koolie being too much for a child to handle,once taught to walk nicely on a lead thats what they do... my 4yr old daughter walks one of my koolies everyday on the way to preschool by herself while I take the other 3 dogs.I obviously would not let her walk the dogs by herself,I assume the kids will have an adult with them when walking the dog. here is a quote to show you what I mean. "There are times when an uninitiated dog owner or a new enthusiast mistakes the Koolie as a shy, reserved or even a timid animal. The Koolies temperament needs to be understood in proper context when one seeks an optimal match of skills and demeanor. The Koolies are intelligent animals and most experienced handlers know well that they need guidance instead of merely being pushed and given praise instead of assigning blame. A steady and supportive approach will be productive, proving the Koolies adaptability in diverse situations when given time." QUOTE is from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 (edited) Sheree: Just wondering if any of the trainers you are refering to actually own a koolie or koolie x...... Koolies are one person/family dogs and won't 'work' for just anyone.. they if being nagged will not 'work' and if the point is pushed too hard then yes they will SEEM timid I call a dog that is obviously spooked in unfamiliar places and by loud noises timid. One Koolie I know like this is papered and was extensively socialised by her owner. I don't doubt for a moment that all Koolies are not like that but timid dogs of this breed do exist as they do in many breeds. The breed is not uncommon in agility circles by the way. Edited June 28, 2010 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
percyk Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 we had a gentle english cocker bitch for our kids she wasnt a knockaround dog...but followed everyone around happily we also had an american cocker and he was boofy and loveable goldies are good ..if theyre not too bouncy i love the sheltie temperament and of course the collie rough but the fur is an issue for outdoor romps a good terrier is a good choice but the problem is that you could end up with an overly exciteable dog that nips especially when young staffies are too strong for little kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Definitely wouldn't recommend an American Cocker for this situation either. IMO it really doesn't matter WHAT the breed is going to be like with the children, the issue in this case would ultimately be the living conditions and the expectation of the adult humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheree_e4 Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Sheree:Just wondering if any of the trainers you are refering to actually own a koolie or koolie x...... Koolies are one person/family dogs and won't 'work' for just anyone.. they if being nagged will not 'work' and if the point is pushed too hard then yes they will SEEM timid I call a dog that is obviously spooked in unfamiliar places and by loud noises timid. One Koolie I know like this is papered and was extensively socialised by her owner. I don't doubt for a moment that all Koolies are not like that but timid dogs of this breed do exist as they do in many breeds. The breed is not uncommon in agility circles by the way. PF I do agree that some koolies can be timid, there are some lines that are that way inclined which is why you need to find a breeder that breeds the type of dog you are after, most breeders should be able to tell which pup in a litter would be suitable for a certain home based on pup and parents temperments. Koolies can be very misunderstood which is the point Im trying to get across, for example see a koolie in a pound and they go stir crazy or are extreamly timid/reserved ... take that dog out of that environment and you will see a totally different dog. Anyway to the OP I stand by my suggestion of a koolie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Woofs Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 I think a stafford would be a good choice. They would stick to the kids and be involved in everything. Not sure if a beagle would be good. My OH's beagle wasn't interested in toys, was very stubborn and had terrible recall .... that's just my experience though. A child could easily walk/train my stafford and I actually found the beagle to be stronger than my stafford who only weighs 14kg. Also a JR would probably suit too. The ones I've met are fiesty little buggers who would be perfect for a bunch of boys and are big dogs in a little package Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee136 Posted June 28, 2010 Author Share Posted June 28, 2010 sheree_e4 --The children won't always have an adult with them when they walk the dog, they are country kids and do a lot of things like walking, fishing playing soccer unsupervised. My sister in law wont mind a stinky dog, someone mentioned smell earlier. I did forget to mention that she has 2 cats. Kinda easily done as the cats are hers and stay up her end of the big house away from the noisy boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhok Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 As a kid growing up my grandfather had a corgi, he would come every where with us and was quite knock around loved swimming and keeping up with our horses. Lovely dog but at the end of the day he would come inside and sleep by the back door in the laundry as he didn't like to be left outside. But maybe a corgi? would be ok in the situation --Lhok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Shepherd~ Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Most dogs would be in their element with a pack like that, and that environment. I would avoid hound types in a rural environment off lead though. Long coats are a PITA out in paddocks and the bush with burrs and things attaching to coats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Most dogs would be in their element with a pack like that, and that environment. I would avoid hound types in a rural environment off lead though. Long coats are a PITA out in paddocks and the bush with burrs and things attaching to coats. Some hounds would do ok in a rural environment....a lot would depend upon the type of fencing. Definitely agree with the long coat situation though, that is part of the reason why I'm leaving my beloved American Cockers as a breeder/exhibitor. They just aren't compatible with the environment here in the country. 6 months of the year it is too dry and too many prickles for them, the other 6 months it is wet and muddy. Just not suitable terrain for a long coat of any description! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirst_goldens Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 im going to say a kelpie or a border collie - kelpies coats are easier... they are loyal and with the basics of training done will love to trek out with the boys fishing and on the motorbikes. My opinions on a few that jumped out fromt he mentioned breeds so far: Collie rough - too much hair Cockers either type - too much hair need to be with family beagle - tend to roam following scents so possible it may run away Corgies - dont know much about them but the ones i have met i think would be ok Shelties - like a collie too much hair not robust enough to handle wrestling with the boys I think if they put the work into a staffy they will be fine - these are country boys after all they can handle it, maybe the younger ones need a helping hand but if the basics are in place at a young age- they are fast learners - they will be fine I think thats it so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr_inoz Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Inside or outside only dog?What level of coat maintenance is the family willing to undertake? Will the dog attend formal training? How much of exercise will it get daily as an adult? What are the house fences like - how high? Mostly outside, but will be allowed in everyday. Coat, brushed a couple of times a week, clipped if needed. Not formal training Walked once or twice daily and weekend trips to the property their dad lives on. Fences are 7ft. If you're brushing the coat a couple of times a week - then I reckon a sheltie would be good. Especially if from a breeder who breeds for confident temperaments. They are great dogs - quick to learn, very kid friendly, easy to train, highly intelligent and love all or no exercise. A sheltie that has been bred with some of the american lines in it will definitely be robust enough too. Coat a lot easier to maintain than it appears. mine plays in long grass, at the beach, in mud and wet. A brush once a week and a bath when she's really dirty and all is fine. Over summer when it is dry, I may need to pull out a few prickles when she's been running through paddocks, but that isn't an arduous task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 (edited) i think people need to remember wrestling a dog big or small isn't advisable & no dog should have to tolerate that/ There are plenty of breeds that could be suitable . The main thing with grooming is whether there is a salon close by or a distance there happy to travel,if there isnt then smooth coat would be the most practical. what breeds do the children like? Edited June 28, 2010 by showdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee136 Posted June 28, 2010 Author Share Posted June 28, 2010 i think people need to remember wrestling a dog big or small isn't advisable & no dog should have to tolerate that/There are plenty of breeds that could be suitable . The main thing with grooming is whether there is a salon close by or a distance there happy to travel,if there isnt then smooth coat would be the most practical. what breeds do the children like? The children love their nan's jack russell, but not sure if it's the breed or just the fact that it's nan's. They are all comfortable and confident handling that size dog. They are also ok with the size of my husky, only the eldest is completely confident with my mal, the others are fine cuddling him if he is lying down and not moving, when he gets up the youngest 2 watch him very carefully. As dogs tend to get up occasionally they are not looking for a dog Chilly's size. I think the kids would be happy with owning pretty much any breed. They have never tried to wrestle either gran or my dogs, all 3 leave the kids alone when they wrestle each other, although Chilly does sit there and "talk" while they do it. Friends of mine have a staffy that is overly energetic and not that well trained and I find it hard to control him. I worry that even if they train one it may decide while on a walk that it wants to do something and they kids will get dragged on the lead. Owning spitz, mine sometimes make their own decisions regardless of what they have been told. So I guess they are looking for a dog that is more loyal, responsive and obedient with what it has been taught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckandsteve Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 I'm going Staffy, both mine and my Mum's are fantastic with kids and so good when the kids are being bad. ie my 4 year old nephew trying to ride them Neither myself or my parents are good trainers but both are fantasticly behaved from the training they have got Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy's mama Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 What about a GSP? They would love all the goings on of a busy family full of boys (especially tripping down to a river or damn for a swim). We had a lovely female gsp as kids which we were responsible for walking from age 10. She pulled like a steam train because she had NO training but even as a ten year old girl she was not too strong for me. At home we played chasey with her in the back yard and she was full on but so gentle and loving. I'd love to have one for my kids. They may need to be inside more though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 The people who I have talked to about Koolies are very good trainers, and do compete with their dogs. I was looking into Koolies as a potential next agility dog. Genetics has a lot to do with drive/nerves/timidity etc. While training and socialisation can do some, it still cannot alter the genetic tendency of the animal.I also think Koolies may be too much for a child to handle. They are a herding breed as are Kelpies and Border Collies, and while they can be great family dogs, I think they are too much dog for a child to handle. If the children are going to be actually walking the dog, then I would go a smaller breed that is more easily handled. Maybe a terrier? Just wondering if any of the trainers you are refering to actually own a koolie or koolie x...... Koolies are one person/family dogs and won't 'work' for just anyone.. they if being nagged will not 'work' and if the point is pushed too hard then yes they will SEEM timid.... I had a trainer ask to use one of my koolies to demonstrate something... I did say to her that she would not listen but said its fine she will, she handed her back to me saying why would you buy a stupid dog like that,funny thing was as soon as she gave her back I did the demonstraion for the trainer with her. I also disagree with a koolie being too much for a child to handle,once taught to walk nicely on a lead thats what they do... my 4yr old daughter walks one of my koolies everyday on the way to preschool by herself while I take the other 3 dogs.I obviously would not let her walk the dogs by herself,I assume the kids will have an adult with them when walking the dog. here is a quote to show you what I mean. "There are times when an uninitiated dog owner or a new enthusiast mistakes the Koolie as a shy, reserved or even a timid animal. The Koolies temperament needs to be understood in proper context when one seeks an optimal match of skills and demeanor. The Koolies are intelligent animals and most experienced handlers know well that they need guidance instead of merely being pushed and given praise instead of assigning blame. A steady and supportive approach will be productive, proving the Koolies adaptability in diverse situations when given time." QUOTE is from here. Actually, all the people I talked to own Koolies, that is why I was talking to them about Koolies I actually really like them which is why I was doing so much research on them. I have seen some fantastic ones, but the people I talked to said that there is not a lot of consistency in temperament within the breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 The 3 boys who live next to me have a Foxie & a JRT. Both dogs go everywhere with them, we live in a quiet semi rural area. The Foxie never leaves their side, she is a wonderful dog. She reminds me of the dogs we all had growing up, extremely loyal, basically uncontained & has great body language with other dogs. We see HEAPS of Foxies in the pound. Some are very timid, but many are not & would probably match this family perfectly. I would love one myself except that our fencing is not secure enough. I suspect the reason we see so many in the pound is that they are escape artists & easily go under fences & gates. I think they really need to be with their people & don't cope well at home alone for lengthy periods. The little one next door often comes to hang out with us for the day if her family goes out. She just comes & goes as she pleases..under the gates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 I don't think a GSP would suit... apart from the fact that they need to be inside probably a bit more, they ARE strong and also have a strong prey drive... Plus i think the family is looking for something a bit smaller? I can't recommend my own breeds as they aren't suitable and I haven't owned the others but most people who own the terrier types seem to think they are suitable, so i'd probably look more into the JR and the Border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 I have seen some fantastic ones, but the people I talked to said that there is not a lot of consistency in temperament within the breed. I know heaps of koolies & would have to agree with this. There are variations of temperament within most breeds between different lines but the thing that concerns me about koolies is the variations within the same lines. I know a few sets of littermates who are VASTLY different in temp...all with great upbringings & good handlers & trainers . I also see a lot of variations in working ability too within the same lines. This tells me it is genetic, rather than environmental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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