Two Bitches Together

[Mas1981]

I think two females have the most potential to fight than male/female and male/male combinations with less predictability. Personally if already having a female, I would get a male as the second dog

I agree with this, if you dont have the dogs already I would get one of the opposite sex.

[Norskgra]

We have six bitches and the only time we might have trouble is when one is in season. We then keep the bich in season away from most of the others. The rest of the time, they all get on well together. Our males normally get on really well but at the moment we have a young male who is testing the waters and we are really careful who we let with him. I know he will grow out of it but we are still careful with all of ours.

[Pointees]

Two entire bitches here, and a desexed male. No problems.

They sleep together, wrestle, run around on the oval together, eat out of the same bowl.

Although, April is clearly the boss, if the other has a toy or bone, April just has to walk up to her, and the other drops it.

[K9Nev]

We have six bitches and the only time we might have trouble is when one is in season. We then keep the bich in season away from most of the others. The rest of the time, they all get on well together. Our males normally get on really well but at the moment we have a young male who is testing the waters and we are really careful who we let with him. I know he will grow out of it but we are still careful with all of ours.

The breed could make a difference perhaps in some circumstances, but the worse fights I have seen in my breed GSD's have been two bitches that have got on well for a couple of years then one snaps and their relationship is on shakey grounds from then on. Dominant bitches will fight a male I have found also, but two males I have found the best. If they do hate each other which can happen, it's consistant hate and can't be together at all, but if two males bond and respect each other, they are generally fine for life other than the odd minor warning snap and the other backs off without any serious violence.

[laneka]

Ours even eat together.

One boy, two girls.

[Novjan]

Very interesting discussion, thank you

We have two bitches, we got them at 8 wks and they are now 6 months old. I have to say although experienced dog owners (but it had been about 15 years since we had a dog in the house) we were a little naive and under estimated the extra work two puppies would bring.

Reactions from people when we tell them we have two puppies vary from OMG you have to rehome one of them NOW!! to how nice they are company for each other.

So far they are doing great, learning commands well, toilet trained (pretty much, we get the odd accident, usually when we have not read the signs or taken them out when we should have) they are very different characters but both pretty laid back.

We try to give them separate time with us, we take them to different parts of the house to do our daily training and take them off in different directions for thier walks as well as some time walking together.

They usually sleep together but we are crating them overnight and during the day because they were desexed yesterday and we don't want them play fighting and pulling thier stitches!!

We were leaving them in our large hall when we went out but after coming back to find corners chewed and a chunk out of the middle of a wall we now crate them separately while we go out.

There has been a couple of minor squabbles, once over an ice cube and once over a toy. In both instances I yelled and they stopped, the first time, ice cube, one growled and snapped at the other, not that loud or nasty, more a warning and the other growled back, after I yelled they backed off and looked very sheepish, they were subdued afterwards.

When one growled at the other over a toy, I yelled and removed the toy, since then I have been watching them and removing toys if they seem to be getting possessive over a particular toy.

I cannot imagine them tearing into each other but I realise that it is a possiblility so any comments, advise on stratagies and training would be very much appreciated.

We are trying to train them in as positive a way as possible so no dominating or choke collars, lots of praise and treats for wanted behaviour and ignoring the unwanted. We even have them sitting on a towel when it is raining and they come in from outside to dry thier feet.

thanks for listening

S and K

[tdierikx]

My girls never fought when I had my boy still with us... it's only been since he went to the Bridge that they have had the really nasty fights on the odd occasion. Trouble was only just 2 years old when he passed, so maybe that has had nothing to do with it, and Trouble is just becoming more mature and less tolerant of being challenged - even if it is a rare occurrence.

Up until this latest fight, my girls have been absolutely fine together during the day when I'm at work - all they do is snuggle together and sleep. Nothing of value is left with them to scrap over though...

Since the fight, they have been crated separately to let their wounds heal. When I let them out one at a time, they will go to the other's crate and have a lick/kiss session with no animus before the "free" dog goes out for a run and potty break.

I have not tried to bring them together as yet because I also have a foster pup here that wants to play with them, and I don't want any distractions (and need a second person to help) when I see if they will behave when both are out of their crates together (on lead and under complete control). The foster pup goes to his new home on Sunday, so I really can't do anything with the girls until at least then. When they were at the vets after the fight, they were fine to be handled together in the same room, and to take out for potty breaks by the staff - so I'm hoping that I can at least run them together under supervision - neither has been separated from the other since Trouble joined our family as a pup.

Both of my girls are perfectly social with other dogs and very well behaved in public, and normally are two peas in a pod at home. I'm at a loss as to why these occasional spats become so nasty...

I suppose there will be a whole bucketload of questions for a behaviourist... *grin*

T.

[Greytmate]

Fights may not start until the youngest bitch is fully grown physically. Sometimes you won't get a fight until the younger bitch reaches emotional maturity at around 3 and a half year of age, and then it will be a serious one.

Even one serious fight may be one too many.

[Katdogs]

My two desexed girls are the same age, we've had Stevie since a pup and Jodie joined us as a foster failure when they were almost a year old. There have been two incidents of concern. One was when they were play wrestling and Jodie got her head stuck in Stevie's collar. It was terrifying for all of us as they both panicked and started trying to bite in self defence. We only leave them in breakaway collars since.

We also saw one serious spat over hard bones. When Stevie was an only dog we would have a dinosaur bone on the go at all times. Bones are now fed separately and must be finished or are put in the bin if the dogs aren't being watched. Though there's been no sign of any animosity since that first fight.

Stevie's the gentlest big dog and jodie's nervier but one third her size. They are best mates and Jodie will look out for Stevie when other dogs are around. It's something in the back of my mind, though, that their relationship will change as they age.

[tdierikx]

Fights may not start until the youngest bitch is fully grown physically. Sometimes you won't get a fight until the younger bitch reaches emotional maturity at around 3 and a half year of age, and then it will be a serious one.

Even one serious fight may be one too many.

You definitely have the right of it there Greytmate - even one serious fight can be one too many if one dog gets the upper hand. My girls have only ever fought when I've been there, so I've been able to at least pull one or the other back if one goes down for any reason.

It's the most helpless feeling when you can't physically separate them in a fight situation... and I'm not about to put myself in physical danger either. Grabbing the back end of the dog that is "winning" and pulling it back out of the fight will reduce the amount of damage done though. In my girls' case, the stupid other dog will get up and come back for more... grr!

Here are my girls nearly 2 weeks after their fight...

Trouble - as you can see most of the wounds are pretty superficial and are healing nicely - scars should not result.

Zeddy - one leg (with the stitches) is definitely worse for wear - not that you'd know it to watch her running about - she will have scars...

The stitches come out today...

T.

[whippets]

It depends. I can have mother and daughter together and all is well (she continues to clean their ears) but in general no. As soon as they have seasons things change. I've got 2 bitches here that would tear holes into each other if given the chance yet as puppies they shared a kennel at night together. So no I dont like bitches together generally. It's disaster waiting to happen.

As for desexed, don't know. I'd rather have 2 desexed males together.

[K9Nev]

It depends. I can have mother and daughter together and all is well (she continues to clean their ears) but in general no. As soon as they have seasons things change. I've got 2 bitches here that would tear holes into each other if given the chance yet as puppies they shared a kennel at night together. So no I dont like bitches together generally. It's disaster waiting to happen.

As for desexed, don't know. I'd rather have 2 desexed males together.

Hi Whippets,

I have had similar experiences with bitches together and totally agree with your perception of things. I prefer males together also, even entire males providing there are no bitches in season present to compete for there is generally a line of respect amongst them.

Cheers

Nev

[snuffysmum]

I have a 1 year old Beagle (Snuffy) and a 5 year old Labrador x poodle (Shadow). Both are desexed females. We got Snuffy when she was 8 weeks old and from day one she attacked Shadow whenever Shadow tried to get a pat from me. I corrected Snuffy by pushing her away and telling her off when she did this and Shadow always backed away never laid a paw on her. However over the last few months it has definitely got worse. Snuffy will bite and growl at Shadow over food (so I feed them separately) and they have two kennels but Snuffy will sleep with Shadow and then have enough and attack her until Shadow gets up and moves out. So far there has been no blood or visible bite marks but there is a lot of crying from Shadow (who is really placid and never the instigator). I am worried that this is all going to get worse. What should I do? Separate them forever in different dog runs? Rehome one (I can't imagine going through with this as I love them both so much). Thanks in advance for any advice

[tdierikx]

My girls' stitches came out today, and the vets were very happy with how fast they have healed... they were asking me if I've got the girls together yet, and I told them I was going to get some help with that. The vet advised again that the girls were fine with each other while they were at the clinic after their fight. I'm still going to take this one VERY slow, and I think that the girls might be allowed to be together only under very strict supervision (like resting on the couch to watch TV of an evening) from now on. I really don't want to have another fight... ever...

So far, when one is going out for playtime or potty break, she will seek out the other for a quick smooch, and then off outside to play/toilet. No animus displayed by either so far - but I'm not going to tempt fate...

T.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

As others have said, bitches who got on OK as puppies can turn out to have serious issues with each other on maturity. Not realising puppy behaviour doesn't last forever is an issue I've noticed a lot recently, I don't think you can speak with confidence about a dog's temperament until it has reached full maturity.

If you have the option, get a dog as a companion for your bitch. Yes there are many people who have bitches together with no probs. We have two bitches who are fine with each other but I think part of that is to do with the fact that there is 4 years age difference between them. We have another bitch who is very close in age to one of these bitches and they are not so good together.

Active supervision also means more than breaking up a fight, it means watching what both bitches are doing all the time and stepping in the minute the eyeballing and standover tactics begin. This is not a fun way to spend your life so I agree with the others who suggest separation for those who already have problem bitches and "get a dog" as the best option for someone looking for a companion for their bitch.

[tdierikx]

We have two bitches who are fine with each other but I think part of that is to do with the fact that there is 4 years age difference between them.

My girls are 6.5 years apart in age... and both are very fit and healthy girls. My older girl is not being picked on by the younger one due to infirmity or pack structure. Their serious fights have usually been over the stupidest of things - the other night it was a scrap of food that they both saw at the same time in the yard... my problem is not that they have a scrap, it's that neither bloody dog will back down if one starts.

If/when Zeddy goes to the Bridge, my next companion for Trouble will be a male...

T.

[sandgrubber]

I've had as many as five bitches, all entire, all Labradors. I have never had so much as a mid squabble, not even with seasons, pups, and whatever. To the contrary, they play well and fret when they are separated. They also tend to nurse one another's pups.

I think there are a lot of things going on in how dogs mix . . . sex and desexing are only factors in a multi-dimentional picture.

We have six bitches and the only time we might have trouble is when one is in season. We then keep the bich in season away from most of the others. The rest of the time, they all get on well together. Our males normally get on really well but at the moment we have a young male who is testing the waters and we are really careful who we let with him. I know he will grow out of it but we are still careful with all of ours.

[K9Nev]

I've had as many as five bitches, all entire, all Labradors. I have never had so much as a mid squabble, not even with seasons, pups, and whatever. To the contrary, they play well and fret when they are separated. They also tend to nurse one another's pups.

I think there are a lot of things going on in how dogs mix . . . sex and desexing are only factors in a multi-dimentional picture.

We have six bitches and the only time we might have trouble is when one is in season. We then keep the bich in season away from most of the others. The rest of the time, they all get on well together. Our males normally get on really well but at the moment we have a young male who is testing the waters and we are really careful who we let with him. I know he will grow out of it but we are still careful with all of ours.

You have been fortunate I think Sandgrubber, but it also depends on the bitches temperaments too. My experience with working GSD's, two dominant bitches together is a dangerous unpedredicatable combination and as someone else mentioned, they don't back off in a tiff and fight hard until enough injury causes one to retreat. Male's appear to have a code of ethics in comparison and never have I seen a scruff up turn into the injury levels that two bitches fighting will inflict upon each other. Dominant bitches will also pick a fight with a dominant male with the same result. I have always used caution in a kennel situation placing dominant bitches only with known submissive temperament animals as a rule. Often pet owners are not experienced in determining the type of dominant behaviour that ends up in violence running two or more bitches together until it's too late.

Cheers

Nev

Edited July 4, 2010 by K9Nev

[lanabanana]

Double post

I did mean to ask though, what is the signiicance of a dog going for legs as opposed to going for head?

And is this a bad sign in play? For example, our wee dog always goes for our big dogs legs and feet when she is playing, or just trying to annoy him. I always assumed it was because that was the only place she could reach without jumping up on her back legs (which she also does to hang off his fac) but is there a reason she does this?

Edited July 4, 2010 by lanabanana

[lanabanana]

When I was 13 or 14, we had an 8 year old border collie, speyed bitch. My mum was then gifted a beautiful wee staffy bitch of 3 months. She was speyed at 6 months. When she hit about a year old, she started attacking the border collie. We assumed it was a leadership challenge as the bc was definitely the alpha at that time. Anyway, the attacks continued over the next two years, Spaced months and months apart. These spats resulted in my mum having stitches in her ankle, my hand being bitten and my sisters eye being bitten (not serious). Fights always stemmed from things like the bc sitting where they staff wanted to sit or similar.

Anyway, the bc never ever backed down and gave as good as she got. But after 2 years they were separated and when they couldnt be separated the staff was tied up so that they could lay together, but the border could move off if necessary. They spent the next 7 or 8 years like that - what a hassle.

We thought it was the female/female thing. But mum got a male later (was my sisters and she just dumped him at mums) and the staff used to attack him also so really it was just her lol.

I personally, always have one of each. Never had any problems at all thus far except the odd snap (never an actual fight if that makes sense). Really hope I dont have any now as my male is 36 kgs and my female is 5 and the run together all day whilst I am at work. Admitedly, the wee girl did approach the male when he was eating one day and he had a go at her, but I always supervise meals so yelled and he stopped. I dont think he was fully getting stuck in but just making lots of noise and pinning her. Anyway, it did the trick and now if there is food around, she always backs off and lets him have first dibs lol. If there did start to be problems though, I would have no hesitation in separating them when supervision wasnt around but we have never reallyhad that issue. I am not sure if it is down to the dogs we have chosen (we have never temperament matched - though will do so in future) or whether it is our attitude that ensures these fights dont happen. But I tend to think it helps to have one of each sex.

I have started waffling now and I am pretty sure my post doesn't make much sense so I am just going to stop now.